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Topic: They Were Expendable movie |
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David Buck
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 Posted on: Dec 24, 2011 - 4:35am
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Hi Dick,
After looking at the damaged forward section of the burning boat I had a look at Al Rosses diagram of a 77' Boats internals it appears that if the boat was cutaway at this point that there would not be very much to see but a hollow space under the deck as this area is the crews quarters and a fairly open area within the boat.
However on haveing a look at this area in closeup from the movie it seems to not marry up with the drawings as it is very busy under there!
Another point again refering to Al Rosses book Re ;Deck Construction both early and late 77' Boats used plywood decks not planking.
Per page 172 Pt 20-44 3/8in Mahogany plywood, PT45-48,59-68,BPT1-10 5/8 Mahogany plywood.
The last things that I can not find are that the deck stiffeners seem to be missing from the burning boat and also there does not seem to be any part of the toe rails on either side which if you look at the forward shot of the 77' Boat on the coral has them running right up to the forward tubes forward support. Some part of them should have survived but there does not appear to be anything in sight.
TIME TO CALL IT A NIGHT SO MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL ON THE BOARD FROM THE LAND DOWNUNDER AND TAKE CARE IN THE HOLIDAY SEASON.
D.buck |
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Will Day
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Posted on: Dec 24, 2011 - 7:01am
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I guess the thing that keeps coming to mind is why would they burn a real boat for one scene, when they had the MGM prop dept, which was perfectly capable of constructing a mockup?
Will |
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Dick
Moderator
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Posted on: Dec 24, 2011 - 10:52am
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My best guess at this point leads me to believe;
1.) That the beached boat is a 77' modified.
2.) They stopped all pyrotechnic on the modified 77, which only involved the upper deck structures. This was to minimized any unnecessarily damage. Probably Hollywood cans of modified gasoline with simple charges.
3.) Then brought in a simple prop of mostly a very simple deck similar to a PT. Then using this very lightly built deck, reassembled the 77's upper prop components. Then simply reset the fire for a burn down. Nothing prior eve explain what appears to be very, very severe hull damage. It must just be a simple deck.
4.) Clearly the last three photos do not appear to be a complete boat, they just might show a prop deck on some pilings. It clearly is not a structured boat.
Dick . . .
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Will Day
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Posted on: Dec 24, 2011 - 11:53am
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Something on that order does seem to be the most logical explanation. They certainly had cockpit mockups for the CUs of the actors.
Will |
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David Buck
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Posted on: Dec 25, 2011 - 2:51am
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I concur Dick with your overview of the beach scene, one wonders what they did with the modified 77' Boat did MGM return it to its 77' cabin layout before returning it or did they just hand it back to the navy?
I ask because if it could be followed it may be able to be identified
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Also what do you think as a subject for a model a little differant yet with a history all its own.
D.buck |
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Will Day
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Posted on: Dec 25, 2011 - 6:16am
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David: It would indeed make a great dio...
Will |
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Frank J Andruss Sr
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Posted on: Dec 25, 2011 - 10:11am
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As we await the arrival of my Sons and Grandchildren this morning, I couldn't help but remember a photo that I had. If you notice the shot, it shows a 77 Footer and crane. Now, this is a long shot, but could this be one of the boats they used for the movie "They Were Expendable" The crane could be removing some items for the movie, as along side looks to be an LCVP. It sure looks like they are stripping the boat if you look. Just fishing here.
Frank
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TED WALTHER
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Posted on: Dec 25, 2011 - 6:31pm
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Frank;
As you can see, this is a late series Elco 77. This boat also still retains its original telescoping mast, which in this photo is in the retracted position. it also has the early series .50 cal depression rails, which says this boat had the Colt mounts. which means this boat is PT 38, PT 39, PT 40, or PT 47( the small storage compartment behind the .50 cal gun tubs looks strange to me, I have only seen them with a smooth rounded aft end, not the sharp cut off seen here. Did this compartment have another portion that was attached to the engineroom canopy? It does look like connection points are present.) It is not PT 48, because 48 came back with roll-off torpedo racks As you can see, the two 80' Elco boats in the background sport SO-A radar masts, which means this photo was take around August 1944, when these boats came back from Guadalcanal.
It is interesting to note that the photo that Charlie originally posted showing PT 48 back at Melville in late 1944, shows what looks like another 77" Elco(stern to camera) tied up to the pier by the crane and the dry docks in the basin at Melville. Zoom in and take a look. The landing craft is certainly present in this photo. but the focus is the other boat, by the crane.
Take care,
TED
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TED WALTHER
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Posted on: Dec 25, 2011 - 7:34pm
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Frank;
Some additional observations:
This is one of your photos, presumably PT 139, 141, or 315 around the same time as the start of movie filming at Melville. Prior to heading south or maybe after their return.
Who originally posted this photo? Was it Al? This is actually the boat in Frank's pierside photo where the mid canopy section is being removed, again notice the storage compartment behind the .50 cal tubs, this has the exact sharp ending compartment, plus the torpedo tube cradles are still present.
Well this ends tonights photo investigation exercise....enjoy!
Take care,
TED
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David Buck
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Posted on: Dec 27, 2011 - 3:57am
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Hi Ted,
Looking at your last photo and the rear of the 34 Boat during the scene were she is stuck on the coral I was wondering if someone may know how many early series 77' boats were fitted with the 80' Boats muffler system,( the complete system not the long pipes of the 77' series ) also how many photos of the same may be out there.as the 80' muffler system appears to be fitted to the boat in your picture.
However the muffler system fitted to the 77' 34 Boat seems to be a mockup by the studio.
Also there appears to be no running gear under the boat in your last picture.
To answer an earlier question going by Al Rosses book the 45-48,59-68 series boats were fitted with a locker aft of the gun tubs that was in two pieces the second or rear piece would fit to the section that is visable in the photo of the trunk section being lifted and continue onto the rear or engine roon section,
Still no info on the 38 Boat? I was trying to work out were you might find any information on a boat that had been posted to Melville, is there a record of Melville in the Navel Archives or might there be somewere else that would hold the records?
I also wondered if anyone on the board may have pictures of her?
D.buck |
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