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 Author  Topic: Tube launched torpedo MK's?
Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Mar 5, 2012 - 1:07pm

With all do respect to Al (I lovem as much as most of you guys do - but) but, to think his drawing is accurate enough to determine a torpedos trajectory is a little whimsical at the very least and Im sure Al would agree whole heartily. There is an old engineering adage, you never directly scale, measure, plot and/or transfer measurements from the face of a drawing, you can only use the printed dimensional information if indicated.

As Al might say - No Arghhhhhhh intended.

Dick . . . .



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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Mar 5, 2012 - 3:40pm
Does anyone have an official report of the torpedo into the depth charge incident? A search of the net yielded different accounts. It happened pre Kennedy, Kennedy did it, port depth charge, starboard depth charge. The stories had one thing in common though, an accidental launching during rough seas. It's hard to believe that though. There was a cover on the torpedo firing box, and the fire buttons had key locks.



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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Mar 5, 2012 - 8:02pm
I've never seen an official report. Only the account as written by Donovan in PT-109. As Donovan wrote it. To set the scene the 109 was trying to accept the transfer of a bilge pump from a destroyer.

"Kennedy edged away from the destroyer and was circling back to the damaged boat when the top of a wave smote his port hull with such force that it jolted one of the torpedoes out of its tube. The torpedo banged into a heavy depth charge, a collision that brought together enough explosives to have blown Kennedy and his crew to its, had not the two weapons been set to fire under different conditions. However, the depth charge toppled off its perch, crashed through the deck into the crew's quarters and landed on the bunk above where drew itch was trying to sleep".

There's no clear indication from this account if it was the port or starboard forward torpedo. I have heard but I have nothing official that it was the port tube. Looking at interior drawings I suppose it could be either side as there are crew bunks on both sides and in the same locations. There's no mention as to which side of the destroyer Kennedy was on either.

The rest of the story is that the bilge pump was successfully transferred and the 109 stayed on station until rescued by a PT Tender.

With respect to Dick's comments, it doesn't matter which drawing I look at, based on the photo evidence of where the depth charge was located, it would have to be back away from the deck's edge.

Dave

David Waples

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Mar 5, 2012 - 8:15pm
I still do not believe that the Depth Charge went right through the deck into the crews quarters and onto the bunk below. I mean come on, did this thing get launched 20 feet into the air and dropped onto the deck, because to me, it would have to be. How far does an ash can sit off of the deck? a few inches when in it's cradle. Think about it, how does a Depth Charge go crashing through the deck. Doesn't make since to me..............


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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Mar 5, 2012 - 10:14pm
Frank, you're right on point. the depth charged crashed through the deck planking, structural frame members and cross blocking and was mercifully stopped by a piece of canvas wrapped around a pipe frame. "the depth charge toppled off its perch." Hummmmmmm

Dick . . .



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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Mar 6, 2012 - 4:38am
I sense a word problem here. If a 3150 lb object accelerates at a rate of XX feet per second and makes contact with a 500 lb object on a deck made of wood... I think you get the picture. That's a lot of force. To put it into perspective that's about the weight of my Jeep Liberty condensed into a tube 21" in diameter.

Gents, all I know is what I read and see. We clearly don't have all the facts on the incident but this is what the guys that were there reported to Donovan.

Funny how these conversations often get back to the 109 boat. I started a conversation about torpedoes used in torpedo tubes, which leads to depth charge rack placement, which brings us back to the placement of the depth charges on the 109, etc. Got to love it.

Dave

David Waples

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Mar 6, 2012 - 5:27am
Dave

I see your point, all things lead to PT-109. Still, if a torpedo was slid out of it's tube and hit the depth charge with a force to dislodge it from the strap and cradle, you would think it would have just clanked it, and knocked it clear off the deck into the water. I still say in order for the depth charge to crash through the decking, it would have to have been bounced 10 feet in the air, and even then, I am not sure it would have made it through the structural set up of the decking. Please do not think I am saying that it is impossible, and I do not mean to question anyone who was there, but over the years, some real tall tails were thrown about, when it came to PT-109. Years ago, in 1998 or 1999 I had asked Gerard Zinser many questions concerning the book PT-109, and in the test of time, he could not remember, or told me certain things never happened. Come on guys, do you think a depth charge can come crashing through the structure set up of an Elco deck, without being dropped from a decent height?


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Mar 6, 2012 - 7:11am
Thanks guys. I thought about "oh no, not the 109 again!" but I braved the waters since it didn't involve the mast.

You guys are right. A 350lb depth charge is not likely to have punched through the deck merely by being knocked off the rack. Not to mention that the rack held it pretty snugly and it would be really hard to knock it loose. And a torpedo sliding out of the tube would knock it sideways not down. Unless the tube ripped out of its mounts allowing the torpedo to come down on it or the torpedoes weight gave it enough inertia to push it through while still in the rack. If that didn't happen, an accidental firing with the tube cranked in might possibly do it.

The 109, what if what if... sorry everyone.

Until an official report is dug up, a question mark will hang over this story for me.



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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Mar 6, 2012 - 7:20am
THIS IS BETTER THAN A FOOD FIGHT!!

Will

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Mar 6, 2012 - 8:11am
As instigator, I probably deserve a spanking... (*!*)



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