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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
PT CAMOFLADGE
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HELLO EVERYBODY-
I HAVE WHAT I FEEL IS A RATHER INTERESTING QUESTION ABOUT CAMOFLADGE ON PT BOATS.
WERE THE BOATS PAINTED IN CAME 'MEASURE' AT THE FACTORY ON IN THE FIELD OR BOTH?
I HAVE MODELED TWO LINDBERG 1/32 SCALE PT'S - THE 169 FROM RON 10 IN ZEBRA STRIPE CAMO AND THE 196 THE LAST OF THE ELCO CONTRACT BOATS IN A WAVY MEASURE.
WHAT'S THE STORY ON THIS GUYS? I RECEIVED AN ANSWER BACK FROM THE OLD BOARD CONCERNING THE RON-10 BOATS, THEY ALL WORE STRIPES BUT NO TWO BOAT WERE EXACTLY ALIKE! HOW MUCH PAINTING WAS DONE IN THE FIELD WHEN IT CAME TO CAMO?
THANKS GUYS!
FRANK RYCZEK, JR.
MODELER/FRIEND RON 10
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 11:48am
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
Frank;
Other than RON 10, I think the Elco boats were painted grey for most of the first series(PT 103-186) Acorrding to Al's book, PT 187 was the first boat to have factory applied Measure 31/5P camoflage however, there appears to be some inconsistancies, probably beacuse of time and production constraints. I know RON 29 boats (PT 552-563) were origially painted measure 31/5P from the factory, then repainted prior to going to the Med. However, RON 37 boats were accepted in Navy Grey and then repainted at Fifes on Long ISland in Measure 31/20L. Get Al Ross's book "Allied Coastal Forces of World Warll" Volume ll, he answers most of these questions.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 3:39pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Well, this picture of PT 171 is an Elco factory photo dated Jan 16, 1943, which is about 2 weeks after the boat was completed for the Navy. So I'd say the camo was factory applied. Same goes for PT 169.
[IMG]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT171Zebra.jpg[/IMG]
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 5:59pm
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
Oops, forgot to change IMG to image. Hope this works:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT171Zebra.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 6:03pm
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
My grandfather was only in the Pacific (aboard a PT) for about six months. He used to joke that the military would paint anything that looked dirty - that it was easier to paint something than either fix it or clean it. He talked about having downtime while the boat was painted. I would imagine that boats, after being painted at the factory, were painted several times as needed.
Here is a shot Pop described at the 243 fresh from the paint shop, 1945. Here's the one thing I find odd about this picture...they painted the torpedoes as well! Obviously they weren't planning to use them soon. I would imagine that this was very late in the war (if not after the bombs were dropped in August.)
[IMaGe]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e362/newsnerd99/153.jpg[/IMaGe]
Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net
Posted By: newsnerd99 | Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 6:29pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Ed;
I said besides RON 10, last time I checked RON 10 in 1942-43 consisted of boats PT 163-174. Yes the adapter system was factory applied, as was RON 15 boats(Higgins) that were painted like this. I only have seen photos of PT 207 and 208, as far as I know boats in this RON were painted all kinds of colors from blue and grey, to pink and Zebra.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 8:45pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll183/aust_yank/Untitled1tif.jpg[/image]
PT 170 "ZEBRA"
This photo is taken from Frank D Johnson's book,"United States PT Boats of World War 2.
The Caption to the photo reads,
During late 1942/early 1943 while the Bureau of Ships attempted to develop effective camoflage schemes for PT Boats.Elco was directed to apply a ZEBRA pattern to PT 170.This pattern was later field tested in the combat zones.Other than attention.nothing overly remarkable was gained with the scheme.Obviously the intent was to confuse the enemy as to the type of craft,its size and direction of travel.Concealment was not one of the patterns strongpoints.
Michael
Posted By: Michael | Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 11:49pm
Total Posts: 218 | Joined: Aug 6, 2007 - 7:25pm
Thanks guys for the input and the pictures as well! When I painted my model of the 169 I actually used the photo sent by Mike in Frank Johnsons book for the stripe patterns, although the picture is the 170 boat.
The model wwas a "bear" to paint a lot of masking and then remasking! I have to admit here and now my eyes were crossed for several weeks after that painting session on the 169 model! I bet the guys at the factory felt the same way afterwards!
If you want to see a nice shot of my 169 patroling our local model club pond for Japanese troop movements, check out this link-
photobucket-Tulagi diorama
Let me know what you guys think!
Thanks again!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend RON 10 PT-169 " ZEBRA SNAFU "
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: May 10, 2008 - 8:14am
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Gary%20Szot/PT170171-1.jpg[/IMaGe]
Frank
Here is a pic of PT 170 and PT 171 fresh out of the factory and being shipped to the south pacific.
Posted By: Gary Szot | Posted on: May 10, 2008 - 10:43am
Total Posts: 193 | Joined: Feb 12, 2007 - 1:00pm
Does anyone know at what point in those boats trip to the forward area that the white stripes in the zebra patterns were overpainted green?
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: May 10, 2008 - 2:01pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Hey Gary and Drew-
Gary- That picture of the two zebras heading off to the South Pacific is a winner! Here did you happen to find it! This shot is going directly into my collection of photos!
Drew- I read somewhere that the original black and white "zebra camo" measure that the white stripes were way to bright for night raids and were then painted over with olive drab making it black and OD green stripes which gave the PT's a much darker appearence. I think the article was in an old Sea Classics. Son of a gun, I didn't save the article!
Thanks guys for your input and the pictures! You guys are the greatest!!!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend RON-10 PT-169 " ZEBRA SNAFU "
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: May 10, 2008 - 3:39pm
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
Hey Frank;
I'm not sure where I found this shot. I know it was a US Navy site.
I had posted this picture previously.
Posted By: Gary Szot | Posted on: May 11, 2008 - 6:37am
Total Posts: 193 | Joined: Feb 12, 2007 - 1:00pm