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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: PT 164 Rendova Harbor
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Hello thank you for your service. I am looking for information on PT 164, which is supposed to have sunk in Rendova Harbor.

When I enter the Lat./Long on the incident it shows to be on Rendova Island, any vets out there with a better Lat/Long or relationship of where in the Harbor.

Regards

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:45pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

There is a photo of the destroyed PT 164 in Rendova Harbor on page 121 of "At Close Quarters - PT Boats in the United States Navy," the official history of the PT boats by Captain Robert J. Bulkley, Jr.

Dick Keresey, the skipper of PT 105 who was nearby when PT 164 was hit by a bomb during the Japanese air raid on Rendova Harbor on August 1, 1943, describes watching the bow of the 164 being blown sky-high in his book "PT 105."

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Apr 17, 2008 - 11:57pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Thank you for the info on the PT 164...

I will follow up with alittle more information of my interest. I have the Lat/Long of two PT's that were foundered/sunk etc. in Rendova Harbor.

One PT 117 was beached and I guess destroyed (?) on Lumbari Island

Lat 08 24' S Long 157 19' E

I know that one is long gone, but the PT 164 is supposed to have sunk, this I was wondering if any vets here (who were there) would be to help give a better general idea of where in the harbor it went down ?

Its Lat/Long shows it sinking inland "on" Rendova Island according to Google Earth.

Regards

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 18, 2008 - 6:51pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

PT 117 was destroyed during the same Japanese air raid on Rendova on August 1, 1943 as the 164.

A photo of PT 117, "beached, with a gaping hole" in her starboard bow and her starboard forward torpedo thrust almost all the way out of the tube, is at the top of page 121 of "At Close Quarters - PT Boats in the United States Navy" -- right above the photo of the destroyed PT 164 I've already mentioned in my previous post.

The hulks of those boats may have been sunk off Lumbari Island or in Rendova Harbor somewhere (?), but I'm sure everything salvagable would have been stripped from them to use as replacement or spare parts for other PT boats.

Someone else on this site may have further information on the final disposition of PTs 117 & 164...maybe even someone who was there, and knows for sure!

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Apr 19, 2008 - 12:38pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Gary%20Szot/Rendova.jpg[/IMaGe]

Posted By: Gary Szot | Posted on: Apr 19, 2008 - 1:14pm
Total Posts: 193 | Joined: Feb 12, 2007 - 1:00pm

In those areas, the boats that were sunk or beached pretty much stayed there where they were. Little has changed over the last 65 years or so in these areas. I am pretty sure if someone had the time and the money to tour these areas. they would find many items that were deep sixed or pushed into the jungle. Unless these areas were built up for tourisim of some sort, the have not changed. Little is out there in the way of pictures taken recently. I wrote to several people in the Solomon area and no one has any pictures of the old places, although several say they still exist. I can not imagine a place like Base 17, which was the largest PT BOAT BASE ever constructed is still not there in some form or another.

Large barges such as the FEMU unis simply did not get shipped home that I know of. I have a picture of several hundred packard engines that were just scrapped, and I have spoken to several men who were in charge of the stripping of the boats that said many items were simply bulldozed into the jungle. 20MM Cannons, 40MM Cannons sometimes were dropped right into the water. One must also remember that the flow of material to these War Zones was tough to stop, and I am pretty sure with most thinking about going home many items for the boats were simply left to rot.

Unless we can find someone that has toured these areas or knows the whereabouts of the old Bases, we will not know what's out there. I think it would be really exciting to go to one of these places and still see the old docks, or buildings, shacks, parts, and places that we all have read about. I wish I had the time and money to take the trip, although the heat would probably knock me out. I really think this part of PT BOAT history has been pretty much untapped. Imagine what it must be like to ply the waters in the Slot, or pull into one of these forward bases. Oh well, they say it doesn't cost anything to dream..............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Apr 19, 2008 - 4:51pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Frank,

Thank you for your reply. I have been to Rendova Harbor in 1981. I was 15 at the time and did not know the history as well as now.

I toured with some locals they showed me only some stuff on the mainland
(Rendova), and out on some small motos in the harbor.

I saw several Jeeps (engines/tires removed), a couple 6x6 beds, and Am-track body, a body of a DUKW ...I also was shown were some Arty placements were.

The natives found old fuses (charges ?), lying in stream beds, put a lighter to it and it would instantly burn.

I also saw at least one wrecked barge and found lots of morter rounds in jungle and in clear laggon water.

One of the motos had cement foundations for building and a well...

I never made it to Lambari or Bau (?? spelling). I heard of dive shops out of Munda looking for the 164, but no luck.

The Lat/Long is of no help either.

I am considering a visit there this Fall if my job permiits it and if someone has an idea of where PT boat base areas are - let me know and I will try to get over and take photos.

To make it easier bring up Rendova Harbor on Google Earth and give *Lat Long speccifics*, as that will make my task easier.

Even in 1981 it was very hard to get throught he bush that had grown back.

I will try to post some photos, but may take awhile for me to figure out the process here.

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 19, 2008 - 7:00pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

I forgot to mention in my previous post. In the picture of the PT 164 it looks as if that is taken on one of the small motos (Islands), as notice how you can almost see to the other side....whereas the PT 117 is/was supposed to have beached on Lambari- which is a more substancial moto.

My native guide seemed to suggest that the PT boats also used the small motos in the harbor.

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 19, 2008 - 7:05pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

How can we find out the exact positions of those Bases. I am sure after 65 years, most PT BOAT VETERANS have no clue where they were, but only the areas, such as Rendova, Tulagi. Samar, ect. Would the Navy department have those coordinates of the old areas of operations. I, like most folks on this board have crude maps showing where the bases were in the Pacific, but nothing in pin point form that I know of. I would love to have photos of these areas should you make the trip, but I personally have no clue as to exact locations.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 4:48am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I just went to Google earth, and pulgged in the coordinates, The Island that the coordinates land(the puple dot) on is Lumbari Island and if you go the short distance to the water that is the spot. This small indentation on the island is where the PTHQ was located. The island next to it with the two buildings at the left hand side of the first cove is Bau Island and yes those are original PT boat base buildings. Rendova Island is the big island to the south of them. So the coordinates are somewhat correct, it is the right Island. In a letter Bob Kelly wrote me that Lumbari was kidney shaped. Also the boats were moored of the island in the harbor area between Lumbari and Bau nested three boats to an anchor bouy. Hank Brantingham also years ago, drew for me a small map on a Garfield stickey. The main reason they left Lumbari was because it was just a island of mud when the rains came, plus Bau was more protected with its own cove. I have xerox's of the aerial photos PTHQ has in there collection of this area.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 7:51am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Frank & Ted,

Cheers again for the help. Excuse my spelling here, as it is often late and I am sometimes distracted.

Ted :I read w/interest about the moorings between Lambari and Bau, I think those may be divable if they are not decomposed- I will touch bases w/the dive shop about those.

I see the Bau Buildings you mentioned and the little cove...I put the curser between a couple house at : 08 23" 55.78" S 157 19' 11.10" E

I take it this was the larger/new base area ? I looked at the other moto's I went ashore on (IN 1981), and my pictures show a coral base, so I think that may explain why there was some building/presence on them.

Here is the Lat/Long : 08 24' 39.28 S 157 19' 28.09" E ---you will see the three small moto's there, and I think the larger (blurred), one to the SW also had items on it.

I would like to look at that one again, as it comes the closest to the PT 164 Latitude mark at 08 25' S- (I wish they gave the seconds also). The Natives seemed to be rather sure there was PT boat activity on these smaller moto's, plus it was closer to paddle I guess.

Regards

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 12:25pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Those coordinates are not Lumbari Island. Since Ron 9 and Ron 10 were the first in the area I don't think that little island is the place of 164. This is 9/10ths of a mile away. I think it is Lumbari in that little indentation area of the island. As this was the exact location of the base. when they first got up there this was the only area they used. In this case of coordinates 08 24' 39.28 S 157 19' 28.09" E, puts it in the middle of that little Island to the south. Why not write Dick Kersey and just ask him, was he standing on Lumbari or another Island in the area?
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 2:08pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted,

The little Islands of the Lat./Long I posted were shown to me the natives whom seemed to be of the impression the PT's were also around there.

These Island would've been decent for some purpose'es, they all had a firm coral soil, and the larger one to the SW had a wrecked barge on it.

Plus the foundations for buildings were still on some...I am unsure of their exact use and relied on the local knowledge.

The online Lar/Lon I got for PT 164 was:

08 25' S 157 19' E ( no seconds listed)

When one runs the curser to this Lat/Long -it is well ashore on Rendova, and the shoreline is still the same from that era.

Yet if one follows the Lat line out into the Harbor it is close to the little blurry one to the SW on the cords I listed in my previous post.

This is what is making me think it may be further down the harbor and not near the big base area where the PT 117 was beached ?

I am new to the site, so do not know Dick Kersey or how to get ahold of him ? I do not have profile previlages etc. etc.

Many Thanks again for the reply,

Shaneo2

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 3:02pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Shaneo2

Here's a link to instructions on how to post photos on this message board
[url]http://www.ptboats.org/photo-posting.html[/url]

Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 8:19pm
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am

Thanks ED,

Will see if this works: DUKW and jeep on one of the small moto's

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/DUKW-Copy.jpg[image]

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 9:08pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Another try

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/DUKW-Copy.jpg[/image]

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 9:11pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

The well on one of the smaller moto's Rendova Harbor..(US well) according to locals.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/037_372.jpg[/image]

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 9:18pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Another moto with what I understood to be the remains of a US bunker or air raid shelter Rendova Harbor

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/053_53.jpg[/image]

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 9:24pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

On the last photo I think the moto in the distance in Lambari w/the hills in the far background being over towards Munda and the outer islands there.

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2008 - 9:27pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Love the new photo's. Seeing the area in Color is just great and I can get a since of what life was like during that time. I hope you can get us more photo's of these areas. GREAT JOB!!!

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Apr 21, 2008 - 7:21am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Frank,

That is all I can find right now, if I get over there this year I will try to check-out anything I see post by members here on this forum who were there.

I hope to get to Rendova Harbor a couple times, reading online items etc. is helping me goto specific areas, instead of wandering around.

I think the equipment was in ok shape as it was sitting there for at least 36 yrs. of sun/rain/salt air, when those photo's were taken in 1981.

I may not be able to see some of these items again, as scrappers go to the islands and Rendova was hit by that tsunami in 2006.

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 21, 2008 - 9:06pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Sorry to all on my spelling I meant to say motu's, instead of moto's.
The Polynesians used the term for those low barrier islands on reefs etc.

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 21, 2008 - 9:11pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Fellas

Great to see the photo of the Ford GPA Amphibious Jeep.

My sister and brother-in-law sailed into Rendova Lagoon, Lubaro Island, in late 1998. When going ashore they saw the (John) Kennedy Memorial Hall and Museum. Fascinated by all they saw, they wandered around the back to see three GPA hulls lying on the ground under the trees. The photo below shows one rotted out hull. I do not have photos of the other two. It could be that the photo above is one of the two. You can also see a jeep body in the photo below.

I will make contact with my sister to what more she can recall.

I would love to see more photos of the remains.

Ian

Posted By: Ian Grieve | Posted on: Apr 29, 2008 - 2:59am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Fellas

Herewith the links for the photos;

[Image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/iangrieve2.jpg[/Image]

Image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/iangrieve1.jpg[/Image]

Ian
cgrieve@ozemail.com.au

Posted By: Ian Grieve | Posted on: Apr 29, 2008 - 4:01am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

I will try to make the above links visible on this page. testing 123...

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/iangrieve2.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/iangrieve1.jpg[/image]

Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 29, 2008 - 5:28am
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm

Jerry and Ian,

In 1981 there was no veranda (porch), or sign for the museum or anything in it, but if I remember correctly the vehicles in my photo's pg. #2, were on that same little island. Seems they still may be there ?

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 29, 2008 - 6:48pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Shaneo2

Herewith another page;

[url]http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=116833[/url]

Did you see or do you have photos of the other two amphibious jeeps?

My sister had no real interest in the vehicles, however, knew I did thus took one photo for me.

Ian

Posted By: Ian Grieve | Posted on: Apr 29, 2008 - 8:24pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Ian,

Here is a link ED gave me to help with your photo posts:

Here's a link to instructions on how to post photos on this message board
[url]http://www.ptboats.org/photo-posting.html[/url]

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 29, 2008 - 8:55pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Better yet just go to his link on page to of this topic, as my link did not come up.

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Apr 29, 2008 - 8:57pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

I just went to Google earth, and pulgged in the coordinates, The Island that the coordinates land(the puple dot) on is Lumbari Island and if you go the short distance to the water that is the spot. This small indentation on the island is where the PTHQ was located. The island next to it with the two buildings at the left hand side of the first cove is Bau Island and yes those are original PT boat base buildings. Rendova Island is the big island to the south of them. So the coordinates are somewhat correct, it is the right Island. In a letter Bob Kelly wrote me that Lumbari was kidney shaped. Also the boats were moored of the island in the harbor area between Lumbari and Bau nested three boats to an anchor bouy. Hank Brantingham also years ago, drew for me a small map on a Garfield stickey. The main reason they left Lumbari was because it was just a island of mud when the rains came, plus Bau was more protected with its own cove. I have xerox's of the aerial photos PTHQ has in there collection of this area.
Take care,
TED

Ted do your xerox copies show the little harbor between Bau and Lambari and the old base'es on those two Islands ?

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: May 23, 2008 - 3:19pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Ted

Lets get the pictures on the message board. I would love to see the old PT BOAT BUILDINGS...............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: May 23, 2008 - 4:02pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

On the photo's of old PT buildings etc., I can then reference with Google Earth and try to take photo's of any sites still left today- on my planned trip this Fall.

Again -any old photo's of PT's moored in the bay between Lambari and Bau Islands, would be great for reference shots, for my future photo's.

Regards,

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: May 23, 2008 - 9:19pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Hi, shaneo2 greetings to another late nite owl. The photos are great i think though your DUKW is the hull of an anphib. jeep. Haveing traveled on an original DUKW i can say the one in the photo looks a little short.

I have an interest in the 117 boat so after seeing the piece come up on the notice board i did a little checking re. location and Dive shops,flights ect. As you have said Munda Dive is able to acces Rendover and a trip could be arranged to visit. I have yet to email the Dive shop, but it seems they are always on the look out for new dive sites and have found a number of them while looking for WW11 history in the Rendover area. This includes looking for the P.T. Boats which they to date have not found according to their internet site.

I don't know where you are in the world and if you are in the U.S. i may be a little closer as i live in Sydney Australia. Looking at a map of Rendover Harbour Lumbari Is. is a little south and a little west of Bau Is. but where the base was and where the boats or whats left of them, will be a search and discover trip that could take a fair time with the help of Munda Dive.
Yours D.B.

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: May 24, 2008 - 6:04am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am

Dave,

Your right it is an amphib. jeep, I learned that off other folks who referenced this post just to look at the photo.

I have sent a email to the dive shop and got a one reply, but there seems to be a lapse in the follow-up questions I have had, I am sure they are very busy, and internet may not be the best....? I will keep trying as I have several questions I need to check further into.

There are several problems with the area, one being the charts. In 1981 we had a nice chart of Rendova Harbor (long since sold), now both the US and BA charts are large scale and next to worthless, for soundings etc.

Also since the PT base is not my primary mission, it has been hard (even on this site to get alittle better layout of the the base area). I have had better luck with Google and doing it myself, with limited resourse'es right now.

The Naval Archives web site is probaly the slowest I ever encountered in receent memory....it all is good fun though.

Any other input of the area you may have through friends or memory let me know through this site....also meant to ask were you in the Munda/Rendova area recently ?

Regards,

Shane

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: May 24, 2008 - 11:21am
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Hi, Shaneo2 interesting comment on Munda Dive however when communicating with o/s dive shops i have found that you only receive two answers to ten questions.
I will try some emails from my side of the ocean and see what we get.

Charts! I have some Natucial Chart supplies i can try,I have tried the internet re. WW11 era charts without succes, how about starting a new topic on the message Board and see if those with pictures and a passion for the Boats may have somethingt?

P.T. Bases this is a hard one as this would only be known to those few men at the top. The navy would know were and how to find them but the only detailed knowledge of the base would be to find a Base commander (still alive) or possibly offical areial photos of the Bases.
I know most men there would have some idea of their base but i think you want to extend your knowledge to cover as much area as pos. to inprove your chance of finding the Boats

Navel Archives, there must be a few reports on this Base i can think of a few to try, location, Rendover has a large number of oficial reports from the Navy, Seabees, Marines and Air Force and the P.T. Boat Commanders. All of these i have found on the Net. The info in the books i have genrally centers on one particular incident or event.
August 1st. has the loss of two sailors and two P.T. boats this crops up time after time in the many stories told of Rendover i have read. There must be archive material on file, keep at them and with luck the slow Govt. worm will finally disgorge somethine worthwhile.

Sorry to say my most recent trips have been east of the Solomons not west ,however that will now change as there are plans afoot to explore to the west and beyond in the next few years.

A glimmer of hope! I have a good friend who runs a small dive shop and is a good friend with the operator of Tulagi dive i will corner him and pick his brains a little as he spent a little of his younger life instructing around the Solomons.

O.K. its late excuse the spelling mate and till next time,ta for now

Yours, D.B.

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: May 27, 2008 - 6:45am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am

HELLO ALL I THINK THAT IF YOU CHECK THE SHIPS LOGS YOU WILL FIND THAT THE SKIPPERS KEPT RECORDS OF THE LAT,S AND LONG,S OF WHERE THEY WERE AT BASES AND ON PATROLS.THESE LOGS MAY HELP FIND AREAS MENTIONED?????? RGW SKIPPERS KEPT A RECORD OF THE ROUTES THEY USED ON PATROLS AND FOLLOWED THEM BY USING THE COMPASS.
EARL

earl richmond

Posted By: EARL RICHMOND | Posted on: May 27, 2008 - 8:55am
Total Posts: 319 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 1:50pm

That Dave and Earl,

I am getting alittle more certain of the area I will focus on, from replies here and general online research. Lambari and W. Bau. As there are buildings there, that means the locals are using some. I will try to spend a couple days in that area checking with the locals.

I know from two previous trips throught the Solomons 1980/81, that there is alot of war debris laying around- one can still walk old fighting positions etc.

Problems now are Asian scrappers and overseas collectors, who are looking to scrap the metal etc. The base'es were destroyed, vehicals dumped in the lagoons etc., but some areas must have been so isolated they just did a half arse job sometimes.

The Lat./Longs I first mentioned are very genreal, so I will try for more local knowledge for specifics......?

The dive shop message turn around is slow, but I know they are busy and internet there is not the best ..I would imagine.

In the meantime, sometgime someone gives a good recommendation/tip and that helps the process along.

Regards,

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: May 27, 2008 - 11:47am
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

The photo's on page #2 of this link were taken on Lambari Island in 1981.

The barrel is a well, and the the sand filled barrels are possibly the OPS Center talked about in Donovans PT 109.

In addition on our numerous visits to Rendova Harbor, we found a Barge mooring, near Bau Is. There are dozens of concrete foundations on Bau, to include the base for the flag pole, the guard shack (?),and the Bakery.

We have photo's of the remains of the PT 164, and location was verified by old native who knew of it.

After the war ex-pats, blew the hull to bit (and I mean bits), looking for scrap metals. Today there are very little remains, we have photo's and several pieces were wood with screws still in them and some remains of white paint.

I think some more remains are under the sand, but do not have the means to uncover them.

I will be happy to send some photos for ID -only to those that run this site here, who can contact me and we can work from there. The photos are dedecated to the PT boat veterans....and are from myself Shane and Aussie Paul.

Regards

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Nov 15, 2008 - 2:49pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Would love to see the photos you have. Contact me anytime off site at mosquitofleet@comcast.net

Frank J Andruss Sr.
The Mosquito Fleet Exhibit
WWII PT BOATS

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 15, 2008 - 6:31pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Frank,

I will be in contact most likely, Monday or Tuesday of this coming week. Hope you can ID small parts ?

Regards

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Nov 15, 2008 - 8:50pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Frank,

I sent some photos over today, at home tonight so you can call if you wish.

Regards

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Nov 17, 2008 - 5:56pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

I have scanned a portion of the U.S. Hydrographic Office chart of Rendova Harbor. The chart contains this description: Published November, 1943, on board U.S.S. PATHFINDER under the authority of the SECRETARY OF THE NAVY. Reprinted at the Hydrographic Office, Feb. 1944.

Note on the eastern side of Bau Island that there was a signal tower and a dock. Can someone tell me anything about this part of the base? Previous posts have discussed the dock on the western side of the island, but not this one. I have also posted a photo of a dock at Rendova, showing a RON 10 boat. I scanned this photo from KNIGHTS OF THE SEA, p. 36. The boat in the foreground is PT 170. The boat in the background, on the far right, also has a number, but the photo is too poor to make out. I was wondering if anyone has seen a better image and knows which boat that is?

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/G%20R%20Powell/RendovaHaborChart.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/G%20R%20Powell/Rendova.jpg[/image]

G R Powell

Posted By: G R Powell | Posted on: Feb 25, 2009 - 5:01pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

if i remember correctly the ships skipper or exec officer wrote the lat and long in their ships logs.it might be a good ideaa to research the ships logs to see if this is so.something rings a bell on this but i cannot put my finger on it..mayber a radioman or quartermaster muight have an idea about this????? earl

earl richmond

Posted By: earl | Posted on: Feb 25, 2009 - 7:34pm
Total Posts: 197 | Joined: Oct 18, 2006 - 12:13pm

GR,

I also was curious about that dock and will look at it this year I hope. I did not see it the one time I went through that pass. I do not think it was for PT Boats though, rather a small supply sort- from the main base on Rendova, or the Munda area.

Remember that channel was used by LST's, LCI's and other assorted vessels, so would not the best place to do work- plus the current through both channels is decent enough.

I have the chart of Rendova Harbor, and also the chart of Munda Bar both done during WW-2, you scanned the same one I have. The signal tower on Bau was to signal Munda in my opinion....as the chart of Munda Bar shows another signal tower at the Eastern end of the airfield up on a hill in Munda.

You would clearly see one from the other. There was one other tower on my Munda chart as: "tower". I asked a old scout if that was the control tower (?), he did not know. I since seen photos from the war and indeed it is the control tower.

Again to Bau Island, I have several photos of quonset hut foundations, and was told by locals they are all over the Island- so the base was extentsive, in addition some of the barrier Islands had Arty positions on them during the Munda battle, and one even had a hospital/rest area for the Army's wounded and fatigued.

If one wants to read more about the very interesting battle for Munda and the New Georgia area Eric Hammel writes a good read in Munda Trail. I think many people tend to focus on the PT boat base, and do not know about how large the numbers of US troops that were fighting and stationed in this area . The remains of the US cemetery can be seen on Google Earth, and I was told by my guide there were "hundreds, more then a thousand" of graves there.

The US came and removed the bodies in the early 1950's, and when I walked throught the jungle scrub there, one can still see rows of open graves in some places- very moving....until the locals plant their food garden in them.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, but long day in the sun. Hope this helps !

Regards,

Shane

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Feb 25, 2009 - 8:30pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Shane,

Can you indicate where, on this chart, the 164 and the 117 were when they were hit? Also, where do you think the photo of the docked 170 was? You will notice in the photo that the treeline in the background appears shallow. It looks like open sky beyond.

G R Powell

GR,

I do not have a chart with me right now, but using your scan if one were to draw an imaginary line from the "D" Becon on Lumbari Island across to the second inlet (Eastern) on Bau, I reckon to the North side of that line is probably were the mooring pods were. I would stress particular emphasis on that area between, Lumbari and Pau (?)

I have no doubt myself the WW-2 Black 'n' White photo (on this site), shows the PT 164 (post attack)- against Lumbari Island. I can compare 1943 to 2008 photos, and I located some debris of 164 are (as I mentioned before), off Lumbari Island. I think the WW-2 shot of the PT 117 shows it against/foundered on either Pau "or" Bau ?

The US Navy loss's show the 117 lat/long on Bau "but", as you can see there is almost a 1/2 mi. longitude discrepancy from the WW-2 chart and Google Earth etc. The US Navy loss's for PT 164 shows it "on" Rendova Island, or down the Harbor on the US chart if I remember correctly- whatever- their lat/long is probably wrong.

One must take the lat/longs of that era with some skepticism..........

*I will take your photo to the Solomons later this year and run it by the locals there in the Harbor. I myself, am leaning towards Lumbari Island -again due to the sky showing in the background. I have been in the Bau inlet where the PT boat base was later located, and have strong doubts that a photo shot (as you shown) could get that kind of sky through the trees.

*I may be wrong.....I've been before*, hell it can be another base -and listed as Rendova, or a reverse negative etc. etc. I will make a note to show this to the locals, take more pictures and get back to you on this site. I am extremely doubtful it is from the East side of Bau.

Something else to mention is the PT 105 has several pages on the Japanese air attack, from Dicks recollection of watching the planes round the North end of Rendova, fly "over" several other vessels, to bomb the PT boats, helped me figure out where the PT Boat mooring pods probably were.... along with the location of Lumbari/Bau/channel entrance and Kori Kori (sp) Island with was said to be the refueling Island (at first). He also mentioned they were moored roughly in a 1/2 mi. by 1/2 mi. square, from that little bit- one can reckon which part of the harbor the PT Boats owned !

Hope this helps, I will be unable to get online until the last couple weeks of March as work calls.....

Regards,

Shane

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Feb 26, 2009 - 6:35pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Hello out there: My father, Peter Kempf, was a gunner's mate on PT 117 discussed by others in this conversation. Many years ago he told me of the day on Rendova when they had gotten off boat for lunch--he described a skip bomb as the one that hit the mark--I had never seen the picture before. Peter was from NYC --went to Wharton on GI bill-married a philadelphia girl and moved to Auburn Indiana--raised 4 sons of whom I am third. anyone with info on PT 117 or who remembers my father would be very much appreciated. Thanks Rich Kermpf

Posted By: Richard Kempf | Posted on: May 10, 2009 - 8:33am
Total Posts: 1 | Joined: May 10, 2009 - 8:23am

i am going by what little memory i have left now but if i am correct when i was on rendova the base was higher up than where the boats were mooredf if you left the base to go to the boats you had to go to the left and down a trail; to get to the boats mooring area.tjhs trail was app 1/4 mile long?it seems that looking to the cove,from my tent, that you had to look DOWN to the cove,there was a shore battery on the beach there.hope i have the right island.they get mixed up in my brain now

earl richmond

Posted By: earl | Posted on: May 11, 2009 - 12:06pm
Total Posts: 197 | Joined: Oct 18, 2006 - 12:13pm

Can any of you guys with computer skills use that U.S. Hydrographic Office map and create a version that shows the actual (or probable) PT moorings/nests/"pods" in and around Rendova?

I'd like to see the dispositions of the boats in late July/early August 1943...

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 5:19am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Hi Shane02, i bumted into the owner of Munda Dive at the recent Dive Tek in Sydney and quzided him on Rendova and Munda PT Boat wrecks.He told me of a number of spots were his crew had found the remains of the as he put it " The big v 12 engines " some around Munda and one spot at Rendova.
Maybe he has alreaby found the 164 Boat but as the engines are all that is left and does not make a very interesting wreck dive he has put it aside as of no paticular interest to anyone. At least this was the impresion i received when i talked with him.
He is more into Sharks than PT Boats.
Good luck when you head out that way again. Yours, D.B.

D.buck

D.Buck

I have not been here for awhile. I think/know there is alot of war debris in the lagoon off Munda. As far as PT boat engines, I will follow up on my return either this year or next. There were two PT's (153 & 158 ?) said to be lost off Munda Pt., but no one seemed to recall where. One of the old Solomon scouts seemed unsure himself, so I would venture they were either destroyed- or I read somewhere else salvaged -then burnt...there is alot of conflicting information.

There is a small debris field of what myself and Aussie Paul presume to be the 164 right off Lumbari Island- lot of bits down under water, most as I stated before probably under the sand...all sorts of wood bits with monel and stainless screws- electical wire in pipes etc.

I would not be surprised if engines were dumped in the harbor too, the yanks dumped everything else being to costly to ship it home etc.

As I found out the remains of the 164 were supposedly blown to bits by a couple expats looking for scrap -after the war- there are more questions I have and will address when I return from next trip.

I do not have alot of faith in dive shops, or staff myself, I've been a diver who worked with those folks in my past & I found them often not to be self proclaimed experts at just about everything underwater. With the whole Solomons area every wreck/battle site it seems gets you 10 different stories- all the way from the vets who were there, to the scouts, to locals who moved there later, or ex-pats who heard from other ex-pats etc. etc.

Regardless, many thanks for your information (!), as often unless you ask about something "specifically" there like: "big PT boat engines" or such, you may not be shown the engines, because you were looking for "PT boats"...not the engines.

Regards-

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 2:25pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm

Shaneo:

Time seems to change many things. I have heard many different stories about parts continuing to be shipped to the War Zone even after the War was over. It was tough to shut off the flow of supplies.

As those Packard Engines weighed in at 2, 950 pounds each, I would say anything that was junked into the water might have a pretty good chance of being there. This would certainly be the last thing claimed to the Ocean on a PT BOAT. Now, if over the years those engines meant money to someone, I would guess they might have been removed (providing they had a way to do this).

If those engines are still there, that means the nomenclature plates would still be there, as well as any stamped numbers on the engine, or stamped numbers on the reverse gear unit. Most were made by Joe's Gears, and I would think you might be able to trace the engines by those numbers. Along those same lines, this is one of the biggest reasons why I never thought for one minute they found PT 109. That's another story. Too bad those divers don't consider diving the area worth the time. You might just get lucky. It would make since that finding monel screws and or rivets might be that of a boat, but my thoughts continue to race back to the claim of finding PT 109. Show me more proof, Show me those engines, show me those guns. You will never know for sure, unless you do.......simply because many things ended up in the water. Heck on Base 17 in the Philippines, they began taking the boats apart to ship items home, but with the War ended , things became very Lax.

Items were simply bulldozed into the jungle, dropped into the water, or buried. Now that would be the place to go with a metal detecter and some divers. I will continue to remain positive that somewhere out there a boat or two lays in wait. Lets see.............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 3:20pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Richard Kempf,

Drop me an email when you have a chance, I will pass it along to my brother.

Bill Smallshaw
peter.tare@verizon.net

Bill Smallshaw

Posted By: smallwi | Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 4:57pm
Total Posts: 134 | Joined: Jun 21, 2007 - 3:02pm

Hi, Frank you should be right about the I.D.plates as most of the ones i have seen are stainless and seems to survive when all else falls apart.

SCRAP ! Copper, Bronze, Brass, Tin !, this is what brings out the scrapers Allumimum especially WW11 Magnesiumn alloy they throw back in the water, witness the large number of Aircraft left lyiing around the South Pacific. A man would be a Millionare many times over if you could but find a home for this resource not to mention a CHEAP and SAFE way to seperate the two main metals.(And you were totaly unscrupulus)

Question .What was the Ore used to alloy with the Alum. in the Packhards
Mag. or Copper.

This will answer two questions,
1.Why no one has salvaged the engines.( see above!)

2. Why they are still in such good conditiom after 60+ years

T.A.

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: May 13, 2009 - 3:28am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am

Frank;
Engines might be found, shafts and props for sure, but weapons, I doubt it very seriously as these would have been salvaged by crew/base force. 43, at Guadalcanal, PT164, 117, at Rendova would have had weapons removed. 109, 153, 158, 164, 166 and 172 more than likely have there weapons still with them. PT 63, 107, at Emirau probably still have weapons with them. PT 67,119 all of the pierside base losses in Tufi, New Guinea had there weapons as they were all fueling fires. Some photos I have seen on the web show .50's as recovered as have been the props of 119 and 67.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: May 14, 2009 - 8:21am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

The two PT's : the PT-67 and the PT-119 are said to be dive sites. I have mentioned this to a couple people here, just Google: Tufi Dive and they have some information on the dive site. The more people know, the better you all have of helping to preserve and bring attention to PT's- otherwise collectors and scrapers are going to pick over what little remains in the Pacific.

Hope that helps some of you...

Regards-

Shane

Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: May 14, 2009 - 4:42pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm