The PT Boat Forum
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi
» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf
» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102
» Topic:
Set 1 - 5 new Melville Photos from Frank Adruss
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=648
MORE MELVILLE PHOTO'S from Frank Andruss:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/Melville-034.jpg[/image]
#34. Work being done on this 77 Footer at Melville using the Crane to move around Cabin Trunk.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/melville-035.jpg[/image]
#35. This 77 footer has certainly been gone thru. It looks to be cannibalized and is sitting in it's cradle. Notice the Ball Field near the waters edge.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/melville-036.jpg[/image]
#36. Workers handling PT Boat Fuel Tanks dock side. Notice the Packard Engine on the dolly.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/melville-037.jpg[/image]
#37. Everything looks to be shipshape at Melville. Even the picket fence is painted. Not sure which road this is. Might be North Road on the Base.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/melville-039.jpg[/image]
#39. Classroom Training at Melville. This was taken in September 1944. Rules of the Road.
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Mar 14, 2008 - 8:16pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Good Morning Dick and Frank, Again I thank the two of you for making all these great photos possible.
Pictures 34 and 35 really caught my attention.
Picture 34 shows a later 45-68 series 77' footer and is truely an interesting shot. Haven't a clue as to the boats idenity.
Say Dick, Could you please enlarge the front and starboard side portion of the charthouse on Picture 35? Have enlarged it on my scanner and it appears to be 39 but these 59.5 year old eyes are uncertain of the true numbers on this first series 77 footer.
Also noted 2, 80 foot Elco masts behind the first grouping of torpedoes tubes.
Again these are really great shots. Thank you Frank for offering them and Thank you Dick for displaying them.
Wayne Traxel
Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Mar 15, 2008 - 7:40am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am
It certainly looks like PT 38, however, I have no documentation that PT 38 was shipped back to Melville. PT 38 and PT 61 were reclassified together as small boats on the same day, 16 Feb. 1944. Small boat C-73996 on 2/16/44. Used as pilot boat CNAB Noumea (New Caledonia). Worn out and replacement requested 1/18/45 by ComServRonSoPac. Probably scrapped in New Caledonia.
I am almost sure she stayed out there. I have a copy of the 2 Jan 1944 structural survey of all the remaining 77' Elco's. The only 1st series boats I have being shipped back from Guadalcanal were PT 39 and PT 40. PT 39 later had an explosion in the engineroom and she was rebuilt by MTBRTU personnel with a late 77' series cabin. this is they way she looked when she went on her war bond tour in New York City Jan 1945.
PT 47, 48, and 59 were also returned to Melville and repaired/rebuilt by MTBRTU personnel. Regardless of what it appears to be, she has to be PT 39.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 16, 2008 - 7:22pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted
Dick's close up shot clearly shows the black numbers of 38 on the cabin side. Is it possible that the documentation could have been wrong all these years. I see no logical reason why anyone would re-paint that number on the boat. Thoughts anyone?
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Mar 17, 2008 - 4:07am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Based on similair info I too thought as Ted, that this boat was PT-39, however after viewing Dicks enlargement I'm convinced that this boat is PT-38. Now I'm wondering what became of 38 and and if other 77 footers made it back to the states.
Wayne Traxel
Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Mar 17, 2008 - 4:18pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am
Frank;
I am very interested in this new development about PT 38, I wish Bob Searles was still with us because I believe he was back at Melville around the time of this photo, give or take a few months, Getting RON 30 ready to go to the Pacific. I am sure he would have noticed his old boat. But who knows?
I have seen some strange things in the Navy, and I know World War II must have been just as strange logistically speaking, i imagine all sorts of stuff was shipped back when officially declared surplus or destroyed.
SO I was thinking, putting aside structural damage reports and surveys, why would they only ship 5 boats back? When they usually shipped them in a group of 6. Could it be possible 38 came back too? Numerically it would fit(38, 39, 40, last 3 boats of the First series. 47, 48, 59, Last three boats around Tulagi/Russells/Rendova of the second series). We know PT 60 made it all they way up to Green Island, where she supposedly was damaged in a storm, and PT 61 became SEA BISCUIT, a small boat/VIP transport/utility boat/Hack. A friend reminded me tonight PT 8 /YP 110 is a classic example of this. It was supposed to be destroyed in 1945-46, but it wound up being used by the Navy as a weapons and propulsion test platform until 1966! Do you have anymore 77' Elco photos at Melville you could post? What do you think about my theory?
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 18, 2008 - 9:51pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted
They say a picture is worth a thousand words and PT 38 is there for all to see. How it ended up at Melville is anyone's guess. In one of the pictures I posted, you will notice another boat with a part of the cabin trunk being put on or being taken off. I noticed a large crate in the photo which seems to be a shipping crate of some sort. My question is what boat is this and what are they doing to her. Could be some type of overhaul. Unless we find someone who was there and knows the story, I suppose we will have to guess. By the way, I will be posting 10 more Melville photo's soon.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 4:03am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Frank;
I can't wait to see your new photos. I have to head to work now but will get back to you later.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 5:21am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Here are two pictures of PT-40 and another 77-footer arriving at Melville. Unfortunately, the second boat is facing away so you can't see the number. All these 77-footers were assigned to MTBRTU to use in hull repair training.
[IMAGE]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/combatboatsarriveatmtbstc.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/combatboats2.jpg[/IMAGE]
Charlie
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 10:10am
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
Charlie
Those Huts to the left of the photo are still present today, as are the two buildings to the far right of the photo. I would love to know where the main gate entrance was during the War. In my several trips to the site, you come down the hill, and there is an access road with a gate that is blocked. I am not sure if this was used during the War or if it was the Main gate. With all the changes, it is hard to visualize when you are there.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 10:46am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
I was up in Melville last October. Of the six 40x100 metal warehouses along the waterfront, one of them has been replaced, or at least the outside skin, anyway. (The one at the opposite end from the restaurant that sits next to the wooden structure or in reference to the PT 40 picture, at the far end.)
As far as orienting yourself, when you come down the hill from the turnoff of Rt 114, you are on Stringham Road (I used to live on that street in 1980). As you get to the bottom of the hill, keep going to the right towards the marina. The warehouses will be on your left. That road you are on is/was ALEXANDER Road, the main street at MTBSTC. According to GOGGLE MAPS, it’s labeled as E Passage but Google Earth has it as Alexander. The side road that you passed up the hill that is gated and locked up was not part of MTBSTC. It was part of the Fuel and Net Depot and it just lead out to the fuel tanks.
Gary's sign picture on the other post is looking down Alexander Road. From where that picture was taken, the warehouses are off to the left.
Here's Melville as of Feberuary 1945, pretty much final configuration:
[IMAGE]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/RG80G452047MTBSTCMelvilleRIFeb19194.jpg[/IMAGE]
Here's Melville today (from Google, Maybe a year or two old)
[IMAGE]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Melvilletoday.jpg[/IMAGE]
You can see the warehouses along the pier. The big heavy line towards the top of the 1945 picture, running from left to right, just under the two fuel tanks on the top of the picture, is the railroad tracks. You should be able to compare the two pictures and get somewhat oriented.
Charlie
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 12:45pm
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
Frank;
I think you did it again! Fantastic!! I think you turned up another valuable photo for me. Here is why: Look very closely at these two photos. The boat on YC 700 appears to be a second series 77' ELCO. Look at the smooth cabin near the cockpit area, it does not have the "notch" as the first series does. I also have photos of PT 47 and PT 59(which was loaded aboard YC 256), at Philadelphia Navy Yard August 1944 and they both came back to the states with their Radar masts intact.
I believe that the boat on the Barge in photo one could very well be PT 48. I wish you had a shot from the side of the basin, or any other angle. If it is PT 48, she had white shaded in black 48 on both sides of the cockpit in the Nov 43-Jan 44 photo I have of her at Bau Island, Rendova.
The boat in the second photo on the barge is probably PT 40, just that this shot is taken earlier in the day. Notice there is no hull number on this barge. Also the small crane in the foreground is just starting to off-load the torpedo tubes from the truck, and place them on the barge. in the first photo, they have already loaded 5 torpedo tubes.
Talk to later and keep these great photos coming!!!
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 1:37pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Can Dick zoom the first unloading photo and focus on the side of the cabin of the boat on YC 700.
Thanks,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 2:07pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Charlie
Thanks so much for the 2 photo's of the Base. Looking at the one from maybe a year or so ago, you can really get a feel for how it was layed out. Some of the fuel tanks are still in the same spots today. Thanks so much for putting this up.
Ted,
I have passed on 10 more photo's to Dick to have them put on the site. I am sure when he is ready, he will poet them. We shall see how close Dick can get to the Boat on the Barge and if she sports any visible numbers or clues. The last 2 photo's were put up by Charlie and not myself ( although I have that same photo ) so we are really getting some great shots...................
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 2:47pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
OK, let's throw some more fuel on the fire. According to the "War Diary" from MTBSTC, (basically a letter to Comm 1st Naval District about what went on) on "25 July, PTs 36, 40 and 48 (now classified as small boats) were returned to this command from the South Pacific....They will be utilized by the Repair Training Unit in its instruction Program."
The bad thing is that they didn't report the arrival of any more of the 77-footers. Could it be a typo and they meant PT 39? Or could the 38 in the picture be 36? And in "At Close Quarters", they don't report the 36 coming back to MTBSTC.
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 5:25pm
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
The old photo of Melville clearly shows the swimming pool building. It is the large building on the east side of the railroad. The Google picture shows a building in the same location, but it appears to be a little different. The pool was a good place for recreational swimming.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 5:41pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Yes, the pool building is still there. It is occupied by a company called WATERLINE Systems, a boat yard service company. I'm going to try and get inside next time I go up there (sometime this year).
Charlie
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 6:21pm
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
Charlie;
Thanks for adding some fuel! I will go with the typo idea, just read any after action report. Hell these guys were fighting a war, what is a typo, they did there best. I am really as interested as Wayne is, in the idea that how many 77' boats really did come back.
You know I had a copy of the war administations auction/sales list of 1946(which was lost in a computer crash. someone on this board sent it to me, and since I lost it, I would appreciate it if you resent it to me. I USE THUMB DRIVES NOW! ) and a lot of boats were listed as sold, (77' &80' ELCO's and 78' Higgins PT's into the 700's), I am talking about over 100 boats sold in the U.S. most on the east coast. Hell RON 4 alone had 32 boats plus the 77' ELCO's that came back(actually most of the RON 4 boats can all be traced, as can all the RON 22, and RON 30 boats, which were all sold after the war, but where did they all go? I have tracked down a few, but some just baffle me.
QM;
For instance were you with RON 12 at the end? Most of the boats were burned but, Ed Farley's PT 190, Rumsey Ewings 191, Ray Turnbull's 195 and Alfred Vanderbilt's196 were placed out of service and later sold. Do you know what happened to all of RON 12 boats? Sam Goddess and Bill Costello came to my unit back in 1999, but I was at Land Navigation school and E&E training so I could not ask them, But my XO gave me a copy of your RON's Commissioning program.
Talk to you soon,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 19, 2008 - 6:30pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
These are really great pictures. Not sure what later series 77 footer is on the barge, YC700 but I don't believe this boat to be PT-48. Although they were second series boats, PT's 47 and 48 didn't have a locker behind the turrets as the later series boat featured in Charlies picture shows. The boat on the barge has an overhang on the stern a feature that also wasn't on PT-47 and 48. PT-48 was fitted with SO Radar and Mk-13 torpedoes. The boat on the barge appears to have the aft torpedo tube cradles in place, much like the later 77'er in Franks dock side picture.
Again, My Thanks for sharing these great pictures.
Wayne Traxel
Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Mar 20, 2008 - 12:37am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am