The PT Boat Forum
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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf

ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102

ť Topic: Six part video of a man building PT109 diorama
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=584

I found this very interesting and the final result is pretty cool. The first half of segment 1 is boring but it gets better. He built it "out of the box" so it has the normal Revel kit errors but the final result is pretty impressive. It is in Japanese but the vidoe is worth watching.

I hope this works, here goes:

1/6 [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki86BZTq_90&feature=related[/url]

2/6 [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02-jKebghz0&feature=related[/url]

3/6 [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlVFqb8RTa4&feature=related[/url]

4/6 [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UWfMu28V3E&feature=related[/url]

5/6 [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is_gL57RGnI&feature=related[/url]

6/6 [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQVp_ibAi5w&feature=related[/url]

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jan 17, 2008 - 6:43pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Ed,
That was very interesting and entertaining. I really like the water. One of the better out of the box builds and some interesting use of paint and wash. Thanks for sharing. What did you think of it?
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 17, 2008 - 9:50pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

I wish I could have understood Japanese, but this man certainly is one talented builder. Can you magine how this would have looked had he used updated parts such as guns, torpedoes, photo etched parts. ect. His use of colors and the way he built the water is something no doubt. Any of you model builders out there ever try a project like that?

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 18, 2008 - 4:03am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Like you I wish I could have understood the conversation. Generally I use significantly less wash and hi-light than this gentleman did. I use more weathering powder such as pastel chalk and other products out there.

I was very impressed with the water. I'm going to have to go through that again and take some notes. The use of foam to represent the white water I thought looked very good. Since I prefer larger scales this could be a good technique to pick up on.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 18, 2008 - 5:25am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Dave, Frank,
I had lots of thoughts as I watched the videos unfold. Initially I saw some of the rough edges of the kit and thought this would be another nice but uninspiring OOB (out-of-the-box) build. I thought this guy doesn't really know much about PT boats. His build was good for OOB and well within the skills of average builders. You get a "nice" impression of a PT Boat for people who don't know or care a lot about them.

As his began to paint and finish the model, I was very impressed at how the correct use of color, shade, highlight and technique could make a mediocre kit look much better. His techniques are pretty common and many were used in my PT495 build. Something that was very apparent was that he has done this many times and knows exactly what types of paints and finishes can work together. One wrong step here and you can ruin the sub coats. The finished, weathered model was a perfect example of how to bring a model to the next level. At this point it was a beautifully executed, if technically incorrect model boat of the 109.

It was not until the diorama came together that I realized that what he had created was an EMOTIONALLY accurate snapshot of history. It didn't matter that the colors on the boat may or may not have been the exact right shade of green. It just didn't matter. It didn't matter that the details on the boat were a bit crude or that the deck planking showed. It just didn't matter any more. You look at the diorama and you FEEL the history, the emotion. I could look at it and almost feel the deck pounding under my feet and the spray on my face. In modeling, stirring those emotions is rare, even with a 100% accurate, super-detailed, certified color matched model. It was no longer just a "nice model boat". As I watched I wished that I could have had 2 minutes to tell him not to use the lines and stanchions forward or the hull decals and to mount the flag on the starboard side of the mast, but in the whole scheme of things, these are details that would have made the diorama more technically accurate but only marginally improved the emotion accuracy.

I also found it ironic watching a Japanese man building a PT Boat diorama. Don't know why, I just did. I guess it shows how things change. I thought about "What ifs" had it not been for PT Boats in the South Pacific when there was little else standing between us and the Japanese.

I also thought as I looked at the diorama about how this would look in Frank's exhibit, especially if the build was as right and fantastic as Dave's.

Ed

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jan 18, 2008 - 6:11am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Ed

Your use of words on the description of the build was dead on and I know how you feel. Yes, I would love to have something like that in my Exhibit, but finding someone to do it with time is tough. Even my model builder can't build me anything for some time as he is laying low for the Winter. I just think that this man brought to life a piece of History that anyone can relate to. Seeing the boat and all it's Packard Power is a sight to behold. This builder captured that moment in time for all of us who love the boats ...........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 18, 2008 - 7:41am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I agree with everyone's comments, thoughts and feelings about the diorama.

Thanks for posting it, Ed - very interesting.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jan 18, 2008 - 8:57am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Glad you liked it Drew.
Ed

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jan 18, 2008 - 2:19pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Ahoy there Ed-

I wish to thank you for posting this amazing build of the 109 OOB. I too wish I knew Japanese! The water and explosion technique blew me away.

Thanks for sharing this with all of us scale ship model builders looking at this board.

Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend RON 10

HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!

YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!

Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Jan 19, 2008 - 7:15pm
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm

Hey Ed-

I just viewed part 6 again with my wife next to me. I do a water technique with water putty and gel glaze but mine don't even come close to this guys! AMAZING!

There is only one thing left to do, find someone who speaks Japanese get this thing translated and give it a shot! I've GOT to try this water deal!

Thanks again!

Frank Ryczek, Jr.

HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!

YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!

Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Jan 19, 2008 - 7:28pm
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm

I don't think you need this translated to figure it out. Most of what is shown in this video is not new. It's basically a silicon water diorama modified for a larger scale. Here's how I interpretate what he has done...

First he had a plan or a vision on how he wanted it to look.

1. He used common insulation foam as a foundation. He took pieces of foam to build up the larger features of the water such as bow waves.
2. He then mixed up a plaster and covered the foam base to make a hard shell, not unlike the techniques used in model railroading scenerey.
3. The water explosion looks like it was made of some sort of sculpy type clay.
4. The explosion was covered with silicon mixed with Tamiya white paint. The silicon mixture was basically just slopped on to the skeleton created by the sculpy type foundation and allowed to dry.
5. The base was painted blue/gray as a foundation color.
6. He mixed more silicon thoroughly with clear blue and clear green to form his water. He slopped it on and got the basic water shape he was looking for and then placed the model into it. He then added more of the silicon with white paint mixed in for his white water. This was blended with some additional clear silicon which gave the water movement.
7. This is my favorite part. He took white ground foam (woodland scenics snow) and sprinkled it over the white water areas. This gave the white water texture which is something I hadn't seen before. It works in this scale but probably wouldn't in smaller 1/350 and 1/700 scales. He also whipped up the white colored silicon mix behind the boat to give it a churning effect.

This was my favorite part of the whole video. I hadn't seen water scaled this well before. I'm going to have to give t his technique a try. I'm really impressed with just how well it came out.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 19, 2008 - 9:22pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Ok Guys, now the big question. Which one of you is willing to try one of these for my Exhibit. I would love to have one no doubt. The water is so real, with the white waves and foam and explosions around the boat and even the way he made the boat and deck look wet with ocean spray. I think the 1/72 scale is perfect because it does not have to command much room and needs no large base. Anything larger, although easier to work with takes up a good deal of space. Doing one with updated weapons and parts and boat of your choice would be awesome............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 19, 2008 - 9:29pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I honestly don't have time in my schedule to do it for you Frank. This is a long shot but you may consider asking Jeff Herne over at ModelX to put his boat in your exhibit. Here is the link for ModelX. He did the 596 boat in a water diorama and you can see it on his web site.

http://www.modelx.com/

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 20, 2008 - 7:05am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

David
Thanks for the heads up. I went to the web site you gave, but could only download the pilot issue, which does not show the PT BOAT he built. It does show a wonderful sub that he did, so I know his work is Museum quality. These are the times I wish I could do these things myself. If I could I would need another house to put all my PT BOATS into...........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 20, 2008 - 9:04am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I need to call on Monday and suscribe.

Dave,
Thanks for the rundown on his water construction. I agree that most of it looked pretty common but didn't know what he was sprinkling on toward the end. For the gun splash, I wondered if he used an epoxy putty. What do you think?

I am really thinking hard about building a Revel boat with WEM PE of a mid-war boat with rool-off racks, 40mm, 37 mm and 20mm weapons and trying this water base idea. I've started looking for a subject boat. 191comes to mind. It has the right structure and weapons load plus I want to do a 5P paint scheme. I've started looking at photos in books and on line . This is how it starts. Lord save me.

Frank,
In looking through my stores, I just realized that I never sent you the poster I made of the 495. If you would still like to have it , send me your address and I'll get out to you. If its not something you would use, I'll hang onto it. Just let me know. It fit a standard 16 x 20 frame.

Ed

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jan 20, 2008 - 10:04am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Yes, this is exactly how it all starts. But that's okay. Worse things can happen to you.

I'm not familiar with the product he used for making the water explosion. It's called Artista Soft and seems to be a modeling paste mostly used for crafts. If you do a web search you will find it out there. I'm assuming it's the same stuff but with different packaging. It's probably lighter weight than an epoxy. It looks like it's worth experiementing with.

Better hit the sack.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 20, 2008 - 9:22pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Thanks Dave.

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jan 21, 2008 - 3:46am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Hello
Your right that is one very nice diorama he's built there.
Some interesting technic's used.
Might have to give the explosion idea a try on a diorama some time.
As for my build I'm just finnishing off the final pieces now should hopefully be finnished by the weekend. I'll then post some pictures for you to see.

s.symonds

Posted By: muddyfields | Posted on: Jan 21, 2008 - 6:12am
Total Posts: 96 | Joined: Mar 1, 2007 - 7:09am