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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf

ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: Have you seen this PT157 diorama?
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=532

[url]http://www.dynamicdioramas.org/MODEL%20SOURCE/Patrol%20Torpedo%20Boat%20157/index.html[/url]

Too bad that great work was mixed with bad research.

The deck planking and "PT157" on the bow are surely wrong. I think the turrets are not correct for this vintage boat.

I see what looks like a lot of late war weapons and features in a setting of Tulagi. Were there still PT boats there when these weapons were available as upgrades to earlier boats? The 37 mm for example is a Mk9 with Elco late mount, not the earlier Mk4 fit in the field.

I don't like to be critical and judge the work of others but this makes me question my own understanding of events. Maybe my timing of the war and fittings is off but if it is not, it is so sad to see so much great work and detail expended on a flawed scenario.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, please.
Ed

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Dec 2, 2007 - 7:44pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Ed:

I think whoever made this Diorama is one of the most talented model builders I have ever seen. Outside of the fact that PT 157 for that time period did not have a 40MM Cannon, 37MM Auto Cannon, Rocket launchers, and Bow numbers of White, I would be happy to have this in my Exhibit anytime. Some builders get a bit outside the box when they are doing these projects, especially when they do not do the proper research for the period. Now, when did PT 157 get retro-fitted for new armament, I am not sure. Like others, I only followed PT 157 in the early years, when it picked up Kennedy and crew in 1943, and she certainly did not have all the bells and whistles during those early years...........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 3, 2007 - 1:05am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

No doubt about it, that is some fantastic work and it gives you the feel of the conditions. Just think what it could have been with another boat as the subject or if the location was the P.I. instead of Tulagi.

I admire the skill required to make the diorama. It is beyond my talents or patients, for that matter.

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Dec 3, 2007 - 4:06am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Yes, this dio has been around for a while. Irreguardless of the time frame, it is certainly one of the best jobs of weathering on a PT that I have ever seen. (As long as it was outfitted as a later boat, it would have been great if the starboard turret had sported a 20mm, as the real PT-157 did at one time.)

A superior piece of work.....

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Dec 3, 2007 - 7:32am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

It may not be accurate but it is a beautiful diorama. One of the best works I've seen done with the Lindberg kit.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 3, 2007 - 9:44pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

First off let me say that the detail and workmanship on the diorama is outstanding.

In June 1944 Ron 9 boats including PT-157 underwent an overhaul in Tulagi. The major weapon changes were four Mk-13 torpedoes in racks. On the extreme bow 157 carried a Mk-4, 37mm, a 20mm on shortened Mk-10 mount on the port side just foreward of the charthouse. Across from the bow 20 on the starboard side was a twin 50 cal mount on a four legged pipe mount.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Wayne%20Traxel/PT-157FinchHavenNewGuinea7-44.jpg[/image]
Rex Anderson Photo PT-157 in June 1944.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Wayne%20Traxel/PT-157FinchHavenNG7-44-1.jpg[/image]
Rex Anderson Photo stbd view PT-157 in June 1944.

Will is correct about the turret Mk-12, 20mm mount, installed on all Ron 9 boats when the Squadron arrived in New Caledonia before being sent to the Solomons. This mount remained on the 157 and the origional Ron 9 boats throughout the war The Mk-4 20mm was still retained on the stern. Forward Charthouse windows were covered with a wooden box like structure . At this time the 157 still retained the origional engine room access hatch and the forward engine room vents were extended in height.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Dec 9, 2007 - 7:36am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

I think this is what you call artistic license. :-) We could pick it apart all day long for accuracy, but why. The person who built this diorama used some pretty terrible kits and made them look very good, then put them into a setting that tells a story and gives the viewer an idea of what it might have been like at a forward PT Base. There was a lot of work put into this project. It's a beautiful piece of art.
Dave

PS. I think we now know what happened to PT-109's mast. It's being used as a welcome sign. :-)

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 10, 2007 - 5:47am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Wayne, I kind of differ with you. I was assigned to the 162 boat in Ron 9, in October 1943. We and the 157 did not have a 40 mm on the stern, but we all had a 37 on the bow a 20 in the starboard turret and twin fifties in the port turret. Our boat also had a twin fifty mounted on the starboard side of the deck just forward of the 20. This was my GQ station. We later got rockets, but I don't remember when. Our boat also had a mortar launcher and also a bazooka.
We already had aircraft torpedoes, whatever their real name was. No tubes. They were launched by pulling a handle. I don't know much about torpedoes(except drinking their drained alcohol mixed with grapefruit juice), I was a quartermaster.
I don't recall a June 1944 overhaul in Tulagi. I had left Treasury in early April in 1944, for R&R in New Zealand. When I returned our aquadron was at Greene and we immediatly left for New Guinea. We were not in the Solomons long in June 1944.
Perhaps you meant June 1943.

Posted By: Russell Pullano | Posted on: Dec 14, 2007 - 6:22pm
Total Posts: 131 | Joined: Oct 23, 2006 - 7:31am

Hey, Russ....Good to hear from one of the "original guys" again.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Dec 15, 2007 - 10:38am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

Hey Ducati,

An interesting aside to that diorama, ... it's up for sale by the guy who built it and who runs that site, for $8,000 as of a few years ago.

He was a model builder on one of the Star Wars movies, one of the three originals - not the three newer ones.

The model does have a few historical inaccuracies, but hey - since he used the bad LINDBERG kit, he did do a good job ...

But, can you please email me, I want to ask you a question.

Garth

You've got a question, I've got an answer.

Posted By: TGarth Connelly | Posted on: Dec 15, 2007 - 1:22pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

It is a great job of model building and finishing.

Garth, e-mail sent.
Ed

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Dec 15, 2007 - 2:10pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Hello Russ,

No, I meant 1944. In 1993, I had just finished a scratch built model of a 1943 version of PT-157 Aces N Eights based on info provided by William F Liebenow the skipper of 157 who picked up JFK. At the time of the pick up in August of 1943, PT 157 was armed with 4 Mk-18 Torpedo tubes, Mk-12 20mm mount in forward turret, twin 50's in aft turret, 20mm Mk-4 on the stern , two depth charges on the transome with smoke generator relocated slightly foreward of the depth charges. This model appeared in Modelers News and Views of the 1993 fall PT Boater News letter. A month later I received and envelope of with pictures and a letter from Rex Anderson mentioning that he was a skipper trainee on PT-157 and later skipper of his own boat PT-156. He was a fountain of information with numerous photos of how 156 and 157 had changed by June of 1944, as described in my previous post.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Wayne%20Traxel/PT-156with157FinchHavenNewGuinea7-4.jpg[/image]
Rex Anderson Photo PT-156 & 157 June 1944 Finch Haven New Guinea

In the June 1944 overhaul Rex described how the V drives were installed incorrectly and PT 156 could not get up to full speed.

Respectfully,

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Dec 17, 2007 - 9:47am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Hey Ducati,

An interesting aside to that diorama, ... it's up for sale by the guy who built it and who runs that site, for $8,000 as of a few years ago.

He was a model builder on one of the Star Wars movies, one of the three originals - not the three newer ones.

The model does have a few historical inaccuracies, but hey - since he used the bad LINDBERG kit, he did do a good job ...

But, can you please email me, I want to ask you a question.

Garth

You've got a question, I've got an answer.

I think the boat may not have been a Lindberg kit. A lot of it looks like the kit they sell here:

[url]http://www.nauticalmarinemodels.co.uk [/url]

Compare the deck planking in the diorama to the close-up shots in their Kit page.

Ed

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Dec 19, 2007 - 9:52am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am