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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Thunderbolt
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(Responding to Dave Waples' request on the PT109 topic thread)
Dave - PT Boats HQ has a bunch of original Elco blueprints of Thunderbolt design. Not sure how helpful they might be for a modeler.
Here's a picture of my Thunderbolt model. Elco nameplate on the side identifies it as Elcoturret Model C4. Scale unknown, so I added a ruler. The next photo is a juiced up Thunderbolt at 20 deg elevation, as installed on PT160 December 1942.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/ThunderboltmodelC4.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/TBoltPT160.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Nov 28, 2007 - 6:47am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
Ed
Can you contact me at mosquitofleet@comcast.net By the way the model of the Thunderbolt is wonderful. You did a bang up job. With all that fire-power and a power turret, I still can't see why more boats did not have them. Although the 40MM was a more powerful weapon against enemy barges and small surface craft, the way it was manually used was a bit odd. One guy had the contols that operated the gun going left and right, the other the up and down movement. You had to really read each other's mind to get the target. The guy that fired the weapon did not control the up and down movement of the gun, so it must have been a real pain to tell the guy next to you, up, down, no up a little more. The gun was not that good for Planes as well. Being a manual weapon, the plane would be here and gone before you could get the gun trained on the target.
I am sure that the boats 50 caliber weapons and 20mm cannons did most of the damge when it came to planes and other targets. It would seem to me that the Thunderbolt, being a power turret and having one man operate it would be a real gem against certain targets. Against the barges though, maybe not. I would love to know the success rate of this weapon on the small number of boats that did have them.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 28, 2007 - 12:11pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Hey Ed-
Did you build that model of the Thunderbolt! Man!! That is one nice model!
Thanks for sharing!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend Ron 10
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Nov 28, 2007 - 12:49pm
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
Ha! I couldn't build a mousetrap, let alone a better one. The model is an Elco original, made by their premier modeler Don Rosencrantz. Pretty neat. All metal, swivels on its foundation, and elevates freely (you can see one of its pistons on the side), just like the real McCoy.
I'm told one problem with Thunderbolt was its weight. One of the first prototypes, installed on PT138, was ripped from its foundation (or more likely its foundation from the deck) and lost in heavy seas. And that one only had the quad-20mm cannons (like the model). The contraption installed on PT160 must have been even heavier and a lot more difficult to operate, as Frank suggested. I wonder how much it slowed the boat. It would be interesting to hear from anyone out there who had actual experience.
Frank, I'll be in touch, been a while. (No, you can't have my model!).
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Nov 28, 2007 - 4:18pm
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
What a wonderful model. I'll check with PT Boats Inc. to see what they can do for me in the way of drawings. I'm sure I could scratch one together given the right information.
I thought I remember reading that the photo of the actual Thunderbolt with the .50 cal's added was a prototype but the actual production version is the model you have.
Thanks for taking the time to post this.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 28, 2007 - 7:14pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Ed,
I found the blueprints on the web site. There are two different sets with different dates. Do you have both sets of drawings? Is there a difference between the two?
Thanks
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 28, 2007 - 8:19pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Dave,
You could be right. I had just assumed the quad mount was on the 138, thinking my model was a promotional tool made to market Elco's new product. In retrospect, that may certainly not be fact. What is fact is that the 160 picture was taken Dec 1942. And, according to Bulkeley, the first prototype was put on the 138 in late 1942 (mount configuration not described). Since most of the Thunderbolt operational experience was later, in 1944 and 1945, that would suggest the quad mount C4 model was the actual production model. And lighter too! Hopefully, someone who knows will chime in.
Don't know which version HQ has drawings for, or whether they are complete set. I've seen actual photos of the quad mount, can't remember where. I'll post a top down view of my model in a day or so.
Ed
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Nov 28, 2007 - 8:27pm
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
Thanks Ed,
I'll look forwrad to that. It certainly looks like something I could scratch build. But I'll need a good set of drawings as well. I'll call PT Boats today and ask if there is any difference in the drawings. Your photos will help as well.
Thank you!
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 29, 2007 - 5:07am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
ED;
THATS A GREAT LOOKING PRESENTATION MODEL. THE 20 MM.'S LOOK LIKE THEY'RE MADE OF BAKOLITE IR HARD RUBBER AND EXACTLY LIKE THE DRAWINGS FROM ELCO. I HAVE TO BUILD A THUNDERBOLT MOUNT FOR MY MODEL AND HAVE BEEN WORKING ON DRAWINGS FOR THE PATTERNS. LOOKING FORWARD TO BUILDING THE MOUNT. NOT LOOKING FORWARD TO BUILDING THE 20 MM.'S. GREAT MUSEUM PIECE, ED. YOU SHOULD BE PROUD.
Steve Tuhy
Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Nov 29, 2007 - 5:52am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am
Here is my Elco Factory Model also made by the famous Don Rosencrantz, who made Ed's Thunderbolt Model. It too is made all from machined metal pieces. The man in the photo is my good friend Stan Pienkowski, who builds most of my Exhibit boats. He is working on straightening out some of the metal pieces on the boat. Mr. Rosencrantz was some special model maker for Elco no doubt....
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/pienkowski-02.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/pienkowski-01.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 29, 2007 - 9:30am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
I had no idea these pictures would be of such interest, thanks for all the compliments. Just as Frank said of his own models, however, the real praise goes to Elco / Don Rosencrantz.
Here's a top down view of my model, as promised. The cannons, magazines, and everything else are all metal. Please excuse the dust bunnies on this museum piece. It was rescued from an attic after years of unprotection. The dust won't just blow off, it's caked on pretty good. Anyone have suggestions for a proper cleaning method?
I've uploaded several more photos into a new Thunderbolt Model C4 subalbum on the PT Boats photobucket website. Take a look there for different angles and closeups. User ID ptboats, password elcopt [url]http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Thunderbolt%20Model%20C4/[/url]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Thunderbolt%20Model%20C4/Thunderbolt003.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Nov 29, 2007 - 11:24am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
Ed
Have you tried the Can of Air Spray used to clean Key Boards on Computers. It shoots a pretty good stream of forced air. As all of my models are in cases, I do not deal with the buildup of dust on the models, but I use the air Can to get rid of the dust buildup on the cases. Works pretty well. If not, then some real time spent with a Q-Tip and cleaner should do the trick. The cleaner should be very mild, like a soap/water mix. This should not hurt the model at all. Good luck, and by the way, I really think this THUNDERBOLT MODEL would go very well in my PT BOAT EXHIBIT. You could come and visit it anytime you want. I'll trade ya..............
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 29, 2007 - 11:58am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
I hope you don't mind but I saved those pictures. I'm leaning very strongly towards an atlantic PT for my Italeri kit. The Thunderbolt would be the signature piece. Just got to get those .50 cal barrels now.
Regards
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 29, 2007 - 7:12pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Dave
The photos are put up for the taking, help yourself. If you're going to go with that 6-shooter version, I know that PT Boats HQ has quite a few more photos of the real thing, including manned operation. Can't remember if they have any photos of the quad mount. Good luck.
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Nov 30, 2007 - 4:28am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
I thought only the 4 20mm version was the only ever fielded. Photos of the Med boats with the TB only show the 4.
I too was thinking of a TB equiped Med boat for a second Italeri boat built.
Ed
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Nov 30, 2007 - 5:07am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
ED AND DAVE;
THEY HAVE BOTH.
Steve Tuhy
Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Nov 30, 2007 - 5:07am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am
Ed,
I did read somewhere that only the 4 - 20mm gun mount was used in the field.
So, you're ready for boat number 2 ? I was actually thinking Mediteranian theatre. There were some nice late model boats in service there with the Thunderbolt weapons system.
That thing looks worse than a ball turret of a B-17.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 30, 2007 - 10:25pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Hi Dave,
I've been thinking about another boat for a while. The 495 took so much time and energy that I need a break. I've thought about a Med boat and actually started gathering information on the Thunderbolt for a while.
Actually, I've been hoping for some 103 seties backdate parts for the 1/35 kit. I would really like to build an early 80 footer. I really loved the photos of your 1/72 build of the 109 and can't wait to see the finished product.
So much so that I've been thinking about a 1/72 build. The posts in the 109 color thread are teasing me. If I understand them correctly, the 109 was one of the first 80 fot boats to see action. In her pre-JFK days, she was probably grey, had only factory weapons, no mast, only 2 tubes for a while, and no depth charges. Is that how you see it? This could be a fun built depicting the early days of fighting in the "slot".
With the WEM PE set and some work, it would be sweet and take up less room than another 1/35.
What do you think?
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Dec 1, 2007 - 4:47am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Hey Ed,
Yes, that's about how I see it as well. It's hard to say if the 109 was green or not before Kennedy had it. All I can say is Dick Keresey, skipper of the 105 thought his boat was gray. So maybe yes and maybe no. I'm trying to arrange a visit with one of the officers of PT-115, a photo of which is on page 20 of Victor Chun's book. This was taken when the boat was converted to radar. It has some interesting features like the air vents for the engine room, spray shields removed, smoke generator flipped 90 degrees, etc. I'm interested to see if he thinks his boat is gray or geen at this moment.
Unfortuantley WEM cancelled their plans on doing any upgrades for the Italeri kit. They received virtually no response to their inquiry they posted in their on line catalog. Eduard on the other hand has a very nice set but it doesn't do anything for the cockpit which is where this kit needs the most work. Maybe Italeri will do a different version of their kit. I'm sure it will depend on how well the current kit moved. I'm sure that was an expensive undertaking.
If you think the Italeri kit wore you out, trust me, the 1/72 Revell kit will as well. I did more kit bashing on that model than anything else I've ever done. Right now she's safely tucked away in a clean box waiting for paint. I was ready to start painting when Ted made his post about possibly having a color shot of the boat during this period. Talk about being teased! That's like the 109 holy grail for pete's sake.
If you like working with wood Bluejacket has a nice 1/48 scale model which was designed by Al Ross. It also requires a lot of work to take it from its basic kit to a quality model, but it's a good size and there's just something about a wooden boat. I have that one mostly done as well and it will be the 105 boat. Right now it's in a hundred parts, all primed and waiting for assembly and paint.
What I think would be a great subject is PT-59. This is the 77' Elco that Kennedy was on which was converted to a pure gun boat. No torps, just bristling with guns. Maybe somebody like Trumpeter will take that on. On the other hand I need to finish what I got!
I sent off for blueprints of the Thunderbolt gun from PT Boats Inc. It doesn't look like a terrible project. But it is very busy in that tub and a good set of drawings would be very helpful. We'll see.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 1, 2007 - 7:42am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Dave,
I've not researched much about the 1/72 kit but see you cast your own tubes. Why was that?
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Dec 1, 2007 - 3:19pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
The kit tubes were horrible. The WEM fix was not to my liking. The back end just didn't look right to me. So I took some pieces from the WEM kit and fashioned my own tubes. I made a mold (which I think has turned into a cat toy and is nowhere to be found unfortunately) and cast them in resin. I used the WEM bases but filled them in to match the real mountings.
If you decide to build the Revell kit don't say I didn't warn you. :-)
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 1, 2007 - 10:20pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Warning noted. Thanks.
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Dec 2, 2007 - 5:47am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Still looking for other suggestions on methods to clean my model. Not too excited about the soapy water idea. Any other thoughts?
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Dec 2, 2007 - 7:15am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
Ed,
I belong to a ship modeling club and one of the members was hired to clean and repair the Titanic exhibit when it came to town. I can't guarantee anything but I will reach out and see if I can track him down.
Once you do get it clean I highly recommend putting it into a case. I do this with all my models and they are as perfect as the day I finished them.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 2, 2007 - 9:36am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Thanks Dave.
Regarding the drawings: In addition to the 2 drawings listed on this website that you ordered, I know HQ has another dozen or so which may or may not be useful to you (I know that some are just check prints - proposed revisions to the approved baseline). My recollection is these are detailed subassembly drawings, and I doubt whether they are the complete universe. But you might get lucky and find details showing the cannons, for example, or other complexities that may not be well illustrated on the plan outlines. After you get the prints you ordered, you might consider asking HQ just for a list/title of those other drawings to determine if any would be worth pursuing for reproduction. If they draw a blank, mention they're the ones from Elco Ed B. If you need any different photos of my model, let me know. Good luck.
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Dec 2, 2007 - 12:45pm
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
I received my blueprint drawings from PT Boats Inc today and I'm less confused than I was before but still looking for answers. I've learned that directing the gun is done with a joy stick with a dead man switch. The gun is fired by foot. Apparently the gun can also be directed manually using the bar on the back of the tub. One of the drawings I received has a Mark 14 gun sight and the other does not. Chutes under the guns direct spent cartridges out the back of the tub.
What I'm having the most trouble understanding is what the gun cradles look like and how they mount inside the tub. There appears to be an L bracket at the front of the tub but I don't understand how the rest of it is supported since it doesn't appear to mount to the back of the tub at all.
I'd appreciate any information.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 10, 2007 - 8:31pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Ed,
For cleaning the model I'd try getting hold of some of the fine hair brushes archaeologists use for their digs and restoration. I'd think if they are fine enough to be able to remove debris from priceless artifacts around the world they'd likely be good for your priceless one too. I have an archaeologist friend and I'll try to remember to ask him where you get those.
Aron
Posted By: aronhk | Posted on: Dec 10, 2007 - 8:45pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
DAVID;
FROM THE PHOTOS THAT I'VE GLEANED OVER, THE GUNS APPEAR TO BE ATTACHED TO THE SAME CRADLES AS ON THE FORKED MOUNTS. EXACTLY HOW THEY ATTACH TO THE TUB, I COULDN'T SAY. AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT MY OLD BI-FOCALS TELL ME.
STEVE
Steve Tuhy
Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 5:18am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am
ED;
HAVE YOU TRIED RUBBING ALCOHOL, A "Q" TIP AND A GENTLE TOUCH? TRY IT ON A NON CONSPICUOUS PLACE. IF IT DOESN'T WORK, IT WILL EVAPORATE QUICKLY. JUST A THOUGHT.
STEVE
Steve Tuhy
Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 5:24am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am
Rubbing alcohol is a solvent. It might harm the finish.
Posted By: aronhk | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 6:33am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I take that back.....its not a solvent actually.....it will not separate lipid molecules. But it does dry out and destroy some finishes.
Posted By: aronhk | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 6:35am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Steve, thanks for cleaning tip - have good brushes and will proceed with caution.
Dave, here's a couple more pics that may help. I removed one 20mm, shown upside down in 2nd photo. Am getting much better new camera, will post better shots later. If you ever get to CT will be happy to let you examine the real thing.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Thunderbolt%20Model%20C4/Thunderbolt033.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Thunderbolt%20Model%20C4/Thunderbolt036.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 9:51am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
ED;
IF YOUR MODEL CANNON MEASURES 10-7/8" LONG, THEN YOUR MODEL IS 1/8 SCALE. THATS A PRETTY GOOD SIZED MODEL. FROM THE LOOKS OF IT , SOMEONE DID THEIR HOMEWORK. WOW!
Steve Tuhy
Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 10:29am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am
Thanks Steve. The cannon actually measures 10 1/2 stem to stern. The width of the mount face (excluding the cradle) is 6 13/16. Overall width is 8 1/2.
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 2:09pm
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
Hi Ed,
Thank you for doing that. That answers a lot of questions right off the bat. I'm assuming that each cradle is identical except that two are longer than the others? I'm interested in how the back of the cradle attaches to the tub. Does the chute support the weight of the back of the gun or is there something else hiding under there?
The photos I detached unfortunately are small. Could I persuade you to attach them to an email and send them to me? My email address is davidwaples@comcast.net.
By the way, I have not heard back from my friend at the model club. Either his email is down or I'm on the *@%!# list for missing the last few meetings. I haven't forgotten.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 4:41pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Hi Ed,
Great photos! Which leads me to a couple of questions.
#1 Is that a joystick between the operators legs that controls the turret movement?
#2 Is that a red firing button on the top of the joystick?
#3 Underneath the Mark 14 gunsight mounting platform looks to be a gizmo of some sort with round knobs on it, could it be the air compressor/power regulator for the gunsight?
#4 THe manual trigger for the 20mm guns are on the side of that square box at the back of the 20mm gun. Were these guns triggered using electric solenoids? Are they represented on the model? I have never seen one of these solenoids so I am guessing.
Thanks for posting these awesome pictures.
Here are pics from Gene Slover's Navy Page MK14 tech manual
First the air compressor:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/MK14compressor.jpg[/image]
Here is the side view of the MK14 shows the air hose conns:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/MK14airconns.jpg[/image]
Here is the other side of the MK14 shows range handle:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/MK14rangehandle.jpg[/image]
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Dec 11, 2007 - 9:10pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Dave and Jerry - I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my very limited ability. But a picture can be worth a thousand words. Please bear with me for a few days until I get my new camera up and running - I'm moving up from an Olympus D-580 to a Nikon S51C, and the improvement will be dramatic. Incidentally, Frank Andruss had previously commented about the odd manual operation of the Thunderbolt. Well, keep in mind this gun system was invented and designed by Elco - I knew the principal designers, and they were both mechanical engineers, so perhaps that explains it.
Dave-
- I'll be happy to email higher res photos, but wait until I get new shots.
- The chute supports the weight of the gun - there's nothing else hidden underneath.
- When I take new photos, I'll probably slide out the other guns to better reveal the cradles. I'll have to do that to prep for cleaning anyway.
- To me, the most intricate parts of the model are its guns. In fact, that butterfly lever on the gun moves down and up to press against the magazine(?).
- The only other moving parts on the model are a 2 inch T-plunger that inserts into that can in the right rear corner, and the elevation pistons which yield about 100 degrees of movement (10 below horizon to straight up).
Jerry -
- The button on top of the joystick is indeed red. Dave's earlier comment would suggest that it's a dead man switch, not a firing button, but I have no clue.
- I have no idea how the guns were triggered. There does not appear to be any representation of the manual trigger you describe.
- Below those knobs on the gizmo are two levers, which don't show in my photo because of the angle. Although there is plenty of room, there is nothing represented on the other side of the gizmo. I would guess the gizmo is meant to be the power unit, because there is nothing on the model that resembles your manual's Figure 5.
Other variations between the model and your manual:
- On the left side view, the air inlet and air outlet are represented, but without elbows. The cable connection is not represented.
- On the rear, the reticle lamp access cover is not representd, nor are the thermostat access plugs.
- On the right side side, the pressure gage is not represented.
- As can be seen in my very first photo, the front window arrangement is significantly different - my model has one rectangular front window, and the light filter is not represented.
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Dec 12, 2007 - 7:07am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
The Elco blueprint I picked up from PT Boats Inc. indicates the following...
1. The joystick moves the turret.
2. The red button is a deadmans switch. I would assume you have to hold it down for the turret to operate and the guns to fire.
3. The guns are fired with a foot switch operated by the right foot.
That's as much as I can tell you from the drawings I have. The drawings don't include the gun sight unfortunately.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 12, 2007 - 7:46pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Greetings Ed,
I was able to contact my friend regarding the cleaning of your model. His recommendation is that you contact a museum and they may be able to lend some help and/or advisce. Sorry I don't have more but I tend to agree with him. You have a very valuable piece of history there and it's worth preserving for future generations.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 14, 2007 - 5:39pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Ed,
Please email me at PTConsultingNHR@aol.com - I'd like to "talk" to you in regard to those photos of the Thunderbolt, OK? Thank you.
Garth
You've got a question, I've got an answer.
Posted By: TGarth Connelly | Posted on: Dec 15, 2007 - 1:59pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Here's a couple of pics I took with my new camera. The first shows the other side of the model, the second shows a different angle / close-up of the gunsight power unit. I added 5 more photos to the photobucket website as well. Dave, I'll email you a bunch of these photos, in separate batches. Higher resolution comes at a price - they're about 1.5 mb each.
Incidentally, I weighed my model. It comes in at about 9.5 lbs.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Thunderbolt%20Model%20C4/DSCN0067.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Thunderbolt%20Model%20C4/DSCN0071.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Dec 17, 2007 - 6:14am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am
I just put in my vote of support for WEM building this gun in 1/35 scale. If anyone has interest please send a message to John at WEM. They didn't get a lot of support for their inquiry. If they don't see any interest they wont build it.
Thanks again Ed.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 17, 2007 - 7:07pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Greetings,
I heard from John Snyder at WEM today. It doesn't look like we'll see a 1/35 Thunderbolt system from them. They may do one in 1/72 which is a shame since this system belongs on late model PT's.
I'm going to get together with Hugh from Loose Canon Models and ask him what's involved in putting something like this together.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 18, 2007 - 6:51pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Gary%20Szot/Arms2.jpg[/IMaGe]
I found this neat shot of the Thunderbolt in use. Could this be RON 15?
Posted By: Gary Szot | Posted on: Apr 21, 2008 - 3:47pm
Total Posts: 193 | Joined: Feb 12, 2007 - 1:00pm
Hi Gary!
I doubt it was RON15 since RON15 was made up entirely of 78 foot Higgins Boats. I dont think any Higgins boat ever had the Elco Thunderbolt installed onto them. Perhaps a typo and you meant a different RON? Just FYI Jerry
Here is info copied from the PT Boats Inc website info page
MTB RON 15
Commissioned: 20,January 1943 - CDR Stanley M. Barnes
Decommissioned: 17, October 1944
PT Boats: Higgins 78' PT's 201-218
Assigned To: Mediterranean Theater
Postscript: The first RON sent to Mediterranean, operated as a unit of the British Coastal Forces. It saw action throughout the western Mediterranean, which included Africa, Sicily, Capri, Italy and other areas.
I think it was RON29 boats which were Elco 80' boats. Here is info below:
MTB RON 29
Commissioned: 22,October 1943 - CDR S. Stephen Daunis
Decommissioned: 23,November 1944
PT Boats: Elco 80' PT's 552-563
Assigned To: Mediterranean
Postscript: The squadron was operating under the British Coastal Forces, and saw action along the northwest cost of Italy and southern coast of France.
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 21, 2008 - 11:02pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Gary;
I believe that thunderbolt is mounted on PT 139 at Melville, some other sources say PT 160 tested the first Thunderbolt mount. Notice the early PT 103 class engineroom cover.
Talk to you later,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 22, 2008 - 2:43pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
I agree with Jerry...as far I've seen, the thunderbolt guns in the Med were with Ron 29. I have a journal from Edwin Pink, the QM on the 206 from 12/43 until the end of operations...he mentions those boats and their new armament when they arrived in theater in the Spring of 44.
Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net
Posted By: newsnerd99 | Posted on: Apr 22, 2008 - 3:05pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered