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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: PT-361
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PT-361 getting some torpedoes moored next to her tender. Assigned to Motor Torpedo Boat Squadron TWENTY SEVEN (Ron 27) under the command of CDR Clinton McKellar, Jr., USN
Ron 27, assigned to the South Pacific, had action at Treasury and Green. Assigned temporarily to the Third Fleet, the squadron was based at Palau, in the Marianas, from October to December 1944, when it was transferred to the Southwest Pacific. There it had action at San Pedro Bay and Subic Bay in the Philippines, and Balikpapan in Borneo.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: May 30, 2022 - 5:18am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Once again Frank, thanks your posting and photos keep this dying forum and website breathing a little, for change. To you a very long time senior member it is very much appreciated.

Dick. . . .

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jun 2, 2022 - 11:54am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

Once again Frank, thanks your posting and photos keep this dying forum and website breathing a little for change. To you a very long time senior member it is very much appreciated.

Dick. . . .

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jun 2, 2022 - 11:56am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

My Pleasure Dick, I hope we can breath a little fire into what was once the best place to look for anything PT BOAT Related. It is still the best place to research past conversations if your looking up information

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jun 2, 2022 - 1:28pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

For some reason I think these pictures were taken while my dad was on the 361 in 1944 and 1945. I can't find any similar pictures in his photo collection, but I know that I've previously seen the man with the pipe leaning on the rail of the Varuna. The large format of the pictures and the generally good quality suggest that they were taken by a Navy photographer. Pictures that the sailors took, including Dad, were developed and printed in the cabin of the PT boat and were limited to smaller formats that could be contact printed. The sailor in white skivvies wearing a fatigue cap and holding a tag line to the torpedo looks very much like Harley Black. In Dad's photo album he lists him as both a Gunners Mate and a Coxswain. Could he be both? According to the notes in Dad's photo album the picture below (hopefully) shows Black sitting and looking at the camera along with Ralp Cockrell. The man standing facing the camera looks very much like Vic Kodis, whom Frank knew very well post war, which means Cockrell is the man looking away from the camera. Cockrell was later wounded at Fort Drum/El Fraile Island. The 361 is passing the USS Wisconsin in San Pedro Bay.

A second photograph of the Wisconsin. There must have been something official going on as pictures with the crew in uniform are quite rare.

I thought I had a definite connection with the man sitting in front of the cabin reading a book, but Dad's picture turned out to be Larry Graham, Exec of PT 357. The pose is amazingly similar.

Finally, in the first picture that Frank posted, is a sailor using the stern mounted latrine on the boat behind the 361?

Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)

Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Jun 12, 2022 - 6:34pm
Total Posts: 94 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm

Thanks Frank and Randy.

"is a sailor using the stern mounted latrine on the boat behind the 361?"

Hah, I zoomed in and that's a definite yes! When you gotta go, you gotta go. Good eye Randy.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jun 14, 2022 - 6:22am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

That is so funny I never really spotted that before. Man right out in front
of 200 Sailors lol

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jun 14, 2022 - 9:59am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

"That is so funny I never really spotted that before. Man right out in front
of 200 Sailors lol"
Not to be dismissive of our modern fighting forces, but when I here of soldiers complaining about not having Internet while overseas... they should be seeing these photograaphs.
War is hell, I never want to go through it, but there is little to no appreciation for what wars in the past have entailed.
It is photographs like these that keep that realization alive. Let it nevr be lost.

Posted By: JEno | Posted on: Jun 16, 2022 - 2:09pm
Total Posts: 73 | Joined: Oct 13, 2019 - 9:52am

About a decade ago, I was at a friends motorcycle shop, when a young GI we knew came, he complained that his wife hadn't bought him some baby wipes before he went down range! Now this was not a little guy, he was a mountain, who could look at the top shelf, while we needed ladders! Still, pretty funny.

Posted By: Stearman | Posted on: Jun 16, 2022 - 8:05pm
Total Posts: 150 | Joined: Nov 1, 2017 - 9:38pm

Moving on . . . (A favorite phrase of a retired Vice Admiral that I reported to for seven years.)

In the first picture that Frank posted there is a light colored "box" on the starboard stern of the 361 behind the sailor in the white skivvies. There's a similar, but not identical box in the same location on the boat behind the 361. I don't recall seeing anything like that previously, but I believe they are made up of three 40 mm ammo cans standing upright inside an angle iron framework. I have a picture in Dad's album that shows sailors on the 359 doing laundry on top of ammo cans and always assumed they just put them on the stern while doing the laundry. Looking at that picture again I can see that three of the cans are in an angle iron framework while several others are standing at random. The three in the framework have a lid that covers all three and one sailor is using that as the rock to beat his laundry on. In the picture posted here the cans on the 361 have the "lid" in place, probably a work bench of sorts. Does anyone know of other pictures of these cans? The 40 mm cans on the 361 were a very light color, almost as if they were whitewashed.

A spotting feature for the 361 is the unusual twin 50 mount on the starboard side of the bridge. It's a pyramid pipe framework and the ammo cans are curved. I always assumed the cans are made for a turret mount. The guns are equipped with bell mouth flash arrestors (?). In the picture the crewman is holding the flash arrestors to keep the guns clear of the Varuna.

On the first picture of the Wisconsin there's a sailor on a bosun's chair on the rear funnel. Scraping the paint never stops.

Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)

Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Jun 17, 2022 - 12:20pm
Total Posts: 94 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm

Hello Randy,
Yes those angle iron frames were used to stow 40mm ammo in what are termed "Ready Service Ammunition" racks. I have seen plans for adding these field expedient angle iron frames for both Elco and Higgins PT Boats. The 40mm ammo was also kept in wooden boxes mounted at the aft corners of several Higgins PT Boats. With the rate of fire of a Bofors 40mm cannon being close to 120 rounds per minute ( 2 per second) you can burn through a lot of clips in a hurry. These simple angle iron frames were easy to make for a tender and added much needed nearby storage of extra ammo for the 40mm Bofors. I am posting these photos of a single 40mm ammo can so you can see how they look. They hold 4 of the 4 round clips and the box when full weighs almost 100 pounds! We have about 8 of these on board PT658. I think the gasketed box top lid is really unique since it dogs all four corners using a simple linkage; like on a water tight door of a ship. Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Jun 19, 2022 - 10:30pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm

Here are a few pics I found that show some angle iron Racks in use PT127 shows angle iron rack ( PT127 from Robert J Douglas Collection) and PT171 from Cas Milewski shows the RSL made from angle iron frames to hold several rows of metal ammo boxes in place of the factory made wood rack. Also PT505 with Diver in Portland England shows wooden chests as does PT309 Higgins (the dark colored one taken facing aft) shows similar wooden ammo chests mounted near the stern. Then PT315 Elco at Melville shows factory installed wooden chest mounted to deck near 40mm to hold 40mm ammo Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Jun 19, 2022 - 11:35pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm

Most excellent Jerry thank you. Where did you find the plans for the "field expedient angle iron frames", and do you remember if they had a plan number starting with "SK"? I read somewhere that the letters stand for "SKetch" and Dick's Elco plan set references a number of them although most are missing.

I've seen a number of "custom" .50 mounts using the turret mounts curved ammo boxes Randy. Some are welded in as part of the mount and others appear to allow the boxes to swap out. I believe this is the 361's port tripod mount you mentioned that I think but aren't quite sure has swappable boxes:

This Acey Deucey 20mm / 50 cal mount on PT 525 definitely has replaceable boxes:

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jun 22, 2022 - 6:36am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Jerry, Thanks for the pictures of the ammo containers as mounted on the PT boats as well as the close-ups of an actual container. I always assumed the lid had some kind of cam mechanism that engaged all four corners.

Jeff, the picture you posted is indeed the port mount on PT 361. That picture is in my Dad's collection (I believe that he took it) and I have previously posted it here. From the notes in Dad's photo album, the sailor manning the guns is Al Heimke. As far as I know the ammo boxes are not removeable; they are in place in every picture I have or have seen showing that mount.

I went back through the photo album and found some additional pictures. The first one, which I have posted here previously shows the white painted cans behind the 40 mm mount. I have inserted the names of the sailors into the picture.

The second picture shows sailors (names unknown) doing laundry on the starboard ammo box on PT 359. It appears to be the smooth-sided wooden box with a single ammo can next to it and an additional ammo can off to one side.

The third picture was a bit of a surprise. I always liked it for its un-staged appearance and Dad's photo album caption "Bum boat making its rounds." PT 359 appears to be underway, and at least three of the boats have the extra 40 mm boxes on the stern. To me they look like the angle iron style holding three cans. And I hesitate to mention it, but the 359 appears to have the auxiliary latrine installed on the stern. Who's going to be the first to incorporate that into a model? Photo-etched, resin cast, or 3D printed? The 359 also had a twin 50 mount on the port bow with curved ammo boxes (I believe) and bell mouthed flash arrestors, but it had a single vertical pole mount where the 361 had a tripod mount

Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)

Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Jul 10, 2022 - 9:53pm
Total Posts: 94 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm

Love seeing pictures of Ron 27.
Thanks Randy

Posted By: Gary Paulsen | Posted on: Jul 11, 2022 - 7:26am
Total Posts: 249 | Joined: Feb 14, 2009 - 6:31am

What's a bum boat? I don't remember ever hearing that term before.

You're right Randy, that would be a unique model addition. And auxiliary latrine sounds better than an ugh box:D

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jul 13, 2022 - 7:07am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Jeff, From Wikipedia: "A bumboat is a small boat used to ferry supplies to ships moored away from the shore. The name comes from the combination of the Dutch word for a canoeâ"boomschuit" ("boom" meaning "tree"), and "boat". In Singapore, the term "bumboat" is applied to small water taxis and boats that take tourists on short tours." I'm guessing that Dad never knew the origins of the word. Until now, I didn't.

At Subic Bay, where the bum boat picture was taken, the RON 27 boats docked either at the old coaling tower or in nests on open water just off the tower. In my earlier post in this thread showing two crewmen at the 40mm Bofors on the 361, the coaling tower can be seen in the background. In several of his pictures there are submarines, minesweepers and/or Australian Corvettes docked at the coaling tower, and it appears that the larger vessels had priority. I have pictures of 361 crewmen on the dock surrounding the tower and Dad said they tried to get on land for a while whenever they could. Between bringing supplies to the PTs and shuttling crewmen around, this is a situation where the bum boat would be used. The Varuna was a bit further out on open water and the PTs would go there for heavier supplies, such as the torpedo being loaded on the 361 shown at the beginning of this thread.

Of course, the bum boat wouldn't be used if all the PTs were nested at the Varuna. That raises the question, for me anyway, of whether the bum boat was carried on the Varuna when not in use.

There are several pictures in Dad's collection of RON 27 boats on joyrides, usually involving some official function like picking up mail with a fair number of unofficial maneuvers thrown in. He told me that land-based sailors (and maybe those on the Varuna) often wanted to go along for the ride just to "get away" while PT boat crew that weren't needed preferred to spend time on dry land.

Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)

Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Jul 13, 2022 - 4:20pm
Total Posts: 94 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm

Great UGH! photo, leaves noting to the imagination . . .
Thanks Jeff, Jerry, and Randy, great posts as always
Dick . . .

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jul 13, 2022 - 8:21pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

Thanks Randy, I had thought it was for people to bum a ride or maybe trying to bum parts or supplies from other crews.

Yah Dick it certainly self explains its function at a glance! It really tickled me when I first saw it. No well equipped PT model should be without one.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jul 15, 2022 - 7:18am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am