The PT Boat Forum
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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf

ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102

ť Topic: PT-117 in 1/16 scale
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=4741

I've just completed my build of the PT-117.
For the complete build log, please go to my website for the details.

http://geneberger-models.com/pt-117-motor-torpedo-boat/

GB

Posted By: gberger | Posted on: Sep 24, 2018 - 12:32pm
Total Posts: 7 | Joined: Apr 7, 2014 - 12:09pm

Wow...beautiful model, great detail, particularly on the crew members, but...a black life raft, horn, and binnacles?

Poor PT 117...she met her end on August 1st, 1943 at Rendova, along with PT 164.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Sep 24, 2018 - 12:51pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Artistic license??? What colors should they be. Going off of B/W photos often makes it impossible to accurately discern colors. I welcome suggestions.

GB

Posted By: gberger | Posted on: Sep 24, 2018 - 3:28pm
Total Posts: 7 | Joined: Apr 7, 2014 - 12:09pm

These are but a few of the photos I referenced. Colors are...B/W.

GB

Posted By: gberger | Posted on: Sep 24, 2018 - 3:41pm
Total Posts: 7 | Joined: Apr 7, 2014 - 12:09pm

As far as I know, the life raft would've been a medium gray, and the horn and charthouse and cockpit binnacle housings the same color as the rest of the boat (green).

That said, its still a great-looking model!

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Sep 24, 2018 - 4:46pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Gene;
I agree. raft gray, all other items mentioned, boat color. Fantastic looking model!
Take care,
TED
P.S. I just went to your website, the detail is phenomenal!!!!! No wonder it took 30+ years!! I wish I could be shrunk down to 1/16th scale and get underway!!

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 - 6:44am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Beautiful work Gene! I enjoyed reading your blog, especially the bits of humor sprinkled here and there. And thanks for the kudos, craftsmen like you are the main reason I created the site and you certainly put the info there to good use. Your PE work is impressive, I especially like how the grab rails came out.

I'll dig through my photos to see what I can come up with regarding life float, horn, and binnacle colors.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 - 5:00pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

One of the banes of modeling is research. One can never have enough of it, and it always seems to lag one step behind progress. Murphy saw to that. This was precisely why the model took me so many years to complete. When I started it in the 1980's I had one source of information, fleeting at best. It wasn't until I discovered your site and NARA that the flood doors opened wide permitting me to create this model to the level I had first imagined. I am forever grateful to you and your site for providing me the means. Although, I ended up rebuilding it several times...third times the charm.

Thanks again for your assistance. The outcome would have only been much the lesser, otherwise.

Gene

Posted By: gberger | Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 - 4:37am
Total Posts: 7 | Joined: Apr 7, 2014 - 12:09pm

Well thank you Gene, you made my day!

As usual Drew and Ted seem to be right. It looks like the binnacle and horn came from Elco black and were usually painted not long after. But it's hard to tell for sure with the lack of color photos available and PT crews ability to do their own thing more than those on regular Navy ships. Here's some images I found:

The text on the life float reads Do Not Repaint, no clue as to why:

David and Will here's another example of PT nose art. But what is it???:

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 - 5:48pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Great photos of the Elcos. Like the detail on the life raft. Thanks for posting.

Bill P Reese

Posted By: billpr | Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 - 5:59pm
Total Posts: 83 | Joined: Mar 19, 2017 - 4:34pm

Jeff;
The"Do Not Paint" is probably because gray on the aircraft doped canvass in the sun and salt will promote faster cracking and overall deterioration. That is gray doped canvass not painted.

That nose art on 493 looks like a Black Sheep to me.

Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 - 7:03pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

The nose art on the 493 may be the shape of a female figure as she was named Carole Baby. Think I'm seeing a boob and nip.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 - 7:33pm
Total Posts: 164 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm

Hmmm...black binnacles on the 140 and the 530-something. Never noticed that before. Always viewed and considered them as the same color as the boats.

Would've thought they'd have been painted the boat color at the Elco factory.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Sep 27, 2018 - 12:03pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Duplicate.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Sep 27, 2018 - 12:19pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

The nose art on the 493 may be the shape of a female figure as she was named Carole Baby. Think I'm seeing a boob and nip.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

OK Larry, Where do you see a boob and a nip? I am missing that abstract art.

[:-laughing-:][:-smilearound-:][:-good-:][:-lookhappy-:]
Take care,
TED

BTW PT 493 "Carole-Baby" was named after LT Richard W. "Bill" Brown's infant daughter. This boat was lost during the Battle of Surigao Strait, and was probably the most decorated crew of the war for 1 patrol: 1 Navy Cross, 3 Silver Stars, 3 Bronze Stars, and 8 Purple Hearts( 2 Posthumously). PT 493 was also sunk on Carole's first birthday: October 25,1944.

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 27, 2018 - 5:27pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted, right under the nine, and the raise of a hip to the left. However after learning the boat was named after Lt. Browns daughter maybe I am way off.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Sep 27, 2018 - 8:36pm
Total Posts: 164 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm

And I am familiar with the story of the 493's demise, I modeled my 1/20th 80' Elco after the 493 to honor her sacrifice.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Sep 27, 2018 - 8:41pm
Total Posts: 164 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm

Larry;
That is the camouflage. Would you post some photos of your 1/20th model?
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 28, 2018 - 11:14am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

The 493 boat's nose art is supposed to a sheep, a black sheep to be exact. After a friendly fire incident in which some Ron33 boats were mistaken for the enemy by Marine aircraft, a number of the pilots from the "Blacksheep Squadron", and their CO, Pappy Boyington, visited the base to meet the crews and familiarize themselves with the boats. In honor of the visit, one of the boats, the 493, painted a sheep on the chart house.

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Sep 28, 2018 - 3:22pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Interesting, thanks for the history lessons guys.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 28, 2018 - 11:28pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

TED
Working on folders of the rest of my builds, stand by.

ducatti650
While members of the Black Sheep VF214 may have visited the 493, Pappy was shot down prior to the squadrons deployment to the Pacific.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Sep 30, 2018 - 1:52pm
Total Posts: 164 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm

"Pappy was shot down prior to the squadron's deployment to the Pacific?"

You mean Ron 33's deployment to the Pacific, not VMF 214's, right?

Boyington was shot down on January 3, 1944 over Rabaul.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Sep 30, 2018 - 4:55pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Larry;
O.K. Standing by.

S.S. ESSO NORFOLK passing through Gillard Cut Panama Canal.

RON 33 Boats(5) were loaded on ESSO NORFOLK on May 11, 1944 at Balboa Panama, they sailed straight for New Guinea and arrived at Milne Bay on June 20, 1944. RON 33 was unloaded on June 21-24, 1944. (REF: The Sea Hawks, LCDR Edgar D. "Ed" Hogland USNR(Ret,) Presido 1999, and Port arrivals and Departures for S.S. ESSO NORFOLK ; http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ports/index.html?search.php?vessel=Esso%20Norfolk~armain and about this cruise :http://www.aukevisser.nl/inter-2/id783.htm )

About VMF-214 (Black Sheep), you are correct, Pappy was shot down over St. Georges Channel near Rapopo Airfield New Britain on January 3, 1944 flying F4U-1A BuNo 17915, he bailed out at 0825. His wingman CAPT. George Ashmun(MIA/KIA), flying F4U-1 BuNo 02723, was also lost. Because the Black Sheep had lost 8 pilots in 12 days (12/23/43-1/3/44) they were stood down and ordered on January 8, to pack up and return to Turtle Bay, Espiritu Santo on an R4D transport. Those with enough points went home, most were reassigned to MAG-11. On March 1 15 were reassigned to VMF-211, another smaller group was assigned to VMF-114. These "tours" were six weeks in length, so by summer 1944, most of the original 2nd tour Black Sheep,were back in the U.S. VMF 214 is another interest of mine and I have 4 highly detailed books on them.
Take care,
TED
P.S. There was an actual VMF-214 Friendly Fire incident with PT Boats. This occurred north of Kolombangara Island, on the early morning of September 30, 1943. PT 116, PT 124, and PT 126 from RON 6. PT 126 gunners shot down 1st LT. Robert A. Alexander USMCR, after he accidently opened fire on the boats, even though the PT's fired a recognition flare.(REF:https://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/f4u/alexander.html).

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 30, 2018 - 6:22pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

TED
Working on folders of the rest of my builds, stand by.

ducatti650
While members of the Black Sheep VF214 may have visited the 493, Pappy was shot down prior to the squadrons deployment to the Pacific.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Thanks for the correction. I was told about the "Black Sheep" artwork on the 493 boat by Dale Brown, splinter of her skipper, Richard Brown. It has been a while from the time I heard the story and I made an assumption I should not have made.

Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Oct 1, 2018 - 12:19pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am

Ed
Don't worry about it, we cover each other's six here.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Oct 1, 2018 - 4:33pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Drew
Correct, I was referring to Squadron 33, not VMF 214.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Oct 1, 2018 - 8:20pm
Total Posts: 164 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm