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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Interesting detail on PT195
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=4449
Hi all, having started working at the superstructures on my PT195 model I began looking at reference material with a different focus and I noticed this detail:
What at first glance looks like a box of some sort is actually part of a more complex structure as can be seen on this picture:
In fact the starboard wing tread has been extended backwards and butts against this object, which looks rather like a step to me,since no hinges/clasps or other box-with-a-lid related fittings are visible[:-confused2-:] On the other hand if it was a step to ease access to the day cabin hatch having it raised just 2 1/2"above the tread doesn't make much sense to me[:-confused2-:][:-confused2-:]
Whatever it is here is how it looks on the model:
If any forum member should have more details about this feature I would gratefully accept them.
Critics welcome as usual.
Regards
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: May 27, 2018 - 2:29am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
Nice catch Daniele, maybe an extension of the wing step to help balance and keep from catching the ammo box with a shin when underway and stepping down? That's my totally groundless guess.
One BIG detail I missed that Will pointed out to me was that she had 20mm's in both her turrets at the time (or at least part of the time) she had the quad .50. They sure did a lot of experimenting with her.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 27, 2018 - 10:08am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Dumb me it's the cover for the heater duct see ELCO drawing 3487.... my part needs correction[:-rdo-:]
Regards
Daniele Kläy
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: May 30, 2018 - 5:13am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
Most excellent research Daniele! Totally blows my WAG (wild a$$ guess) out of the water. Here's the assembly for anyone else interested courtesy of Dick Washichek:
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 30, 2018 - 8:39am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
You guys are awesome....
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: May 30, 2018 - 4:21pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Jeff, do you or Will have any photographic evidence of the quad fifty stern mount? I have been looking for this for years, as my father-in-law was instrumental in supplying and installing it
SteveS156
Posted By: SteveS156 | Posted on: May 31, 2018 - 6:39am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Which boat Steve? The 195?
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 31, 2018 - 8:29am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Hi , Steve is referring to PT156 I think...
In the meantime I corrected my stbd wing tread, painted the impossible to reach area under it and fitted the assembly.
Now it looks like this:
Correct at last.
P.S. Jeff do you know which drawing(s) cover(s) the apertures cut in the day cabin walls to fit the heater ducts? I couldn't find anything yet. Would be a nice detail to add to pt103.com's crew cabin section...
Regards
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: May 31, 2018 - 9:44am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
Nice work Daniele! Are you going to add the duct(s) or do you think they were removed?
I couldn't find anything specific to hole locations but suspect it may have some information on the original drawing you mentioned. I see faint dimensions near where the duct goes through the bulkhead. The various duct drawing reference lists only mention the assembly drawing I posted.
I have no images showing a quad on PT 156.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 31, 2018 - 5:13pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Jeff,I think the ducts were removed and the holes in the cabin walls plated over.
Without references it's plain guess-or artistic licence[:-cheers-:]
Daniele Kläy
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: May 31, 2018 - 10:50pm
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
Daniele,
I made the decision a while ago to shelve mine for the moment as you keep uncovering more detail which I missed. Keep up the good work, I hope you don't mind me using your research later on to finish it.
So far I have to add the twin 50s, the ammo box near the quad and the heater cover. The are not going to be too much of a problem luckily.[:-cheers-:]
Best Regards,
Stu.
Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 12:13am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am
Stu, did you add 1 or 2 twin .50"s ?
Daniele Kläy
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 1:05am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
Daniele,
None so far. I have gathered drawings for when I add them although I am only seeing a single on the bow in the Black Agnes photo which may be the one they used. I am assuming starboard side only but you may know different. I don't see any on the port side. I have built up a box for infront of the charthouse.
What are your feelings about the lighter cockpit colour in that Leyte photo? PT green?
It would seem that the heater duct cover and the extended wing floor were removed later around when the boat was repainted in the 20/L scheme. The photo of Russ Pullano standing in the daycabin hatch does not show it.
Best Regards,
Stu.
Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 1:40am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am
Stu, I noticed also the lighter color of the cockpit in the Leyte photo,MTB green could be an option, did you see the radar mast is darker than the rest of the boat ?
Apparently the boat had a pole MG mount on the port wing (visible at Cape Gloucester) but on most photographs .30 brownings are mounted in this position, I think this arrangement would have been too weak for twin.50s. For example the Willys pole munt for the .50, which is more or less paragonable, has comprehensive bracing to steady it-albeit being shorter- while all the wing MG mounts I've seen are simply bolted to the ply wing and show a small deck mounting plate
Regards.
Daniele Kläy
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 3:19am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
Daniele,
Yes I noticed the mast was darker. In the Panama shots it is the same colour as the rest of the boat. In the diary I was sent (I have sent it to you) there is a mention of lewis guns kept below to be mounted on the wings. These are .303
There is also a mention of two twin .50 mounts 1 port and aft of the cockpit and 1 starboard and forward of the cockpit at the time the quad was on the boat.
Best Regards,
Stu.
Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 4:00am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am
Either the 156 or the 195. Thanks!
SteveS156
Posted By: SteveS156 | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 5:08am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Stu, unfortunately you did not send me the PT195 diary,if you want to catch up I'd be delighted[:-grin-:]. Were those Lewis the WW I LMG with drum magazines? Mounted on both wings?
Daniele Kläy
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 7:09am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
Daniele,
I sent it to you today so you should have it somewhere.
I have never seen any other magazine but the round one fitted to a Lewis. It states two were carried but does not mention whether they had a mount on both wings.
I cannot see a second twin .50 mount on the port side aft of the cockpit in any photos. Have you seen any evidence ? I would think the arc of fire would be restricted by the torpedo racks. Any mount would be quite substantial as to be visible I would think.
Best Regards,
Stu.
Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 8:08am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am
Stu,it was in my mailbox and it escaped me...
On the Black Agnes picture two .30s are visible near the cockpit.The stbd gun seems to be mounted on a post attached to the toepedo rack,the port gun might have been in a similar location,although it looks located further back.
As for a port twin ,50 mount, no clues...
Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Jun 1, 2018 - 11:01am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm
