The PT Boat Forum
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi


Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf


Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102


Topic: REPLICA 80 foot ELCO UNDER CONSTRUCTION
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=4343



For the last few years a gentleman from Down Under, Paul McCamley, has been quietly building a replica of PT 109 at his home. Mostly by himself. When he first contacted me I was skeptical but he has since amazed me with his resolve and ability to get things done. Here is a message from Paul and some photos of his progress:

[green]Paul McCamley, retired auto mechanic in Brisbane Australia, grew up with admiration for the greatest American President in my lifetime.....John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Sadly, 22 November, 1963 saw this great era in the USA come to a tragic end.
I believe Australia owes it's freedom to the many, many Americans who sacrificed so much in WW2.
The construction of this vessel is a tribute not just to JFK, but to all those brave men and women of the American Military.
Please, always stand for the flag.

Pension checks don't stretch far, but the ELCO 109 project started late 2014, regardless.
Two Caterpillar 3412e V12 twin turbo 1500hp marine power plants with twin Disc 5202sc gearboxes purchased.
Budget considerations require all components to be sourced / fabricated before the hull can be started.
All components are now ready for hull CAD / CAM fabrication to begin.

Trying to build a replica vessel by one retired mechanic that initially required the resources and budget of the United States Navy and teams of hundreds of skilled craftsmen is a daunting challenge.
Jeff Davidson and David Waples have been the guiding inspiration in this project.

There are thousands of design and engineering challenges in this build.
I hope I am up to the challenge.
I do not want to die wondering.

Warmest regards,
Paul McCamley[/green]

jpFLZ.jpg

jpIj5.jpg

jpY5A.jpg

jplKj.jpg

jp6On.jpg

jpg2I.jpg

jpeXO.jpg

jpawf.jpg

jpMRa.jpg

jpTdY.jpg

jpR5S.jpg

jpsX6.jpg

jpddo.jpg

jpDGk.jpg




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jan 27, 2018 - 6:23am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



That is a very ambitious project and I wish the gentleman great success. One thought about his choice of building materials, the use of what appears to be stainless steel for large components will add much additional topside weight.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Jan 27, 2018 - 10:42am
Total Posts: 160 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm



It's aluminum except for the exhaust which is indeed stainless so it should be OK.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jan 27, 2018 - 12:16pm
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



One man with a dream can move a mountain! Best wishes to Mr McCamley in this endeavor.

Rick Schaefer
Splinter PT 63 108

TM2c John E Mirus
Solomon Islands
Dec 43 - Jan 45

Posted By: rickas | Posted on: Jan 27, 2018 - 1:27pm
Total Posts: 82 | Joined: Dec 26, 2013 - 5:16pm



Wow, just wow! How many of us have had this dream, and now, here is a man living the dream. My hats off to him!



Posted By: Stearman | Posted on: Jan 27, 2018 - 8:34pm
Total Posts: 51 | Joined: Nov 1, 2017 - 9:38pm



Bravo Zulu !! and all aluminum too! WOW!
Good Luck and keep charging!
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 29, 2018 - 6:11am
Total Posts: 2906 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Such an undertaking. It just proves that when you believe in something so strongly it can be done. From what I see so far, this looks really awesome. Aluminum components how great is that. All the best sir in this project of love.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jan 31, 2018 - 6:50am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Interesting looking propellers.

Charlie

Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Jan 31, 2018 - 8:55am
Total Posts: 512 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm



Those are high surface high speed props for sure!

Former crew member of the Big Blue Sightseer ex-PT 486

Posted By: mcgovern61 | Posted on: Jan 31, 2018 - 12:56pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Looks great! Good luck, Mr. McCamley...



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jan 31, 2018 - 4:25pm
Total Posts: 1267 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Some more photos of what Paul calls his "1:1 scale model".

Paul rigged up a lathe to carve the plug for the 20mm base mold, unfortunately he didn't send a pic of himself covered head to toe in green foam dust after a carving session:

jpSKt.jpg

j4jNH.jpg

The results:

jp0Lc.jpg

Deck Hatches:

jp2T3.jpg

Helm:

j448M.jpg

Rudders:

j4pg4.jpg

Exhaust pipes:

jpPwT.jpg

Exhaust pipes being 3D scanned for use in hull design:

j4Gjs.jpg

jpzaw.jpg




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 9, 2018 - 7:31am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Impressive!

Former crew member of the Big Blue Sightseer ex-PT 486

Posted By: mcgovern61 | Posted on: Feb 9, 2018 - 8:01am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Paul has been busy and sent me this update on what he calls his 1:1 scale model. Very impressive, thank you Paul!

[green]Hi Jeff.

1959 Cadillac.........

Here are the latest photos of Project 109 progress.
Frames 6-11.
Only 30 more to go!
(better get used to eating SPAM)

The beam on an ELCO 80' is 2 feet wider than the length of a 1959 Cadillac!
(they tell me the Cadillac is 225 inches)
This is a big scale model boat.
I have chosen Caterpillar V12 twin turbo engines over brushless electric motors.
(scale speed)

Please feel free to post the latest photos as you wish.
( would be great click bait with the heading '1959 CADILLAC' )

Jeff, I don't have to tell you that DNV certified marine grade 5083 aluminium is expensive.
That's just the sheet aluminium.
Not counting the CAD/CAM, cutting, shipping, welding / fabrication.
My small brain is hurting.

You are a numbers man Jeff.
Hey, try these exercises.
I would be very interested to have your input on local USA pricing.

1) There are 500 triangle re-enforcing gusset plates 300mm x 300mm
5083 marine grade DNV certified aluminium - 10mm thick material.
(that's 12 inches x 12 inches in the old money)
Kindly research a local supplier costing.
(be sitting down)

2) FRAMES - 5083 marine grade DNV certified x 10mm thick sheets.
Size - 1.83m x 6.10m (that's 6 foot x 20 feet in the old money)
50 x sheets required
That's JUST the frames!

3) FRAME RIDERS (the re-enforcing bands around the internal void on each frame).
Material - 6082 aluminium flat bar - 100mm x 10mm thickness
600 meters required (yes, that IS 600 meters)..........................$.............. ?
(just the accurate folding / bending of these 6-11 frame rider bars had lots of zeros in the invoice)

You can put these questions, or even the whole e-mail on the Forum for comment.
Be interested in the replies.

Stay safe over xmas Jeff and family.
2019 is going to be one hell of a year.

Warmest regards,
Paul.
(model boat builder, scale 1:1)[/green]

jqBFI.jpg
jqWxk.jpg
jqqZA.jpg
jqN7n.jpg
jqO9O.jpg
jqyuo.jpg
jqJBZ.jpg



Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 18, 2018 - 3:13am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Holy cow, and I thought some of my PT building projects were ambitious.


Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2
2016 Corvette Z51

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Dec 18, 2018 - 10:22am
Total Posts: 160 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm



Simply amazing....

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Dec 23, 2018 - 4:48pm
Total Posts: 1923 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Jeff, have you received any updates recently?

Former crew member of the Big Blue Sightseer ex-PT 486

Posted By: Gerry McGovern | Posted on: Dec 6, 2019 - 6:51am
Total Posts: 70 | Joined: Oct 7, 2016 - 1:47pm



Hi Gerry, I heard from him November 11th he is still going strong!:

[green]All the frame CAD files done.
Lotta engineering decisions to consider.

Last one the transom.
(the dimensions in the attached pic look ok to you ?)

Next stage nesting to suit 2.0m x 9.0m sheets, prior to water jet cutting.

THEN, obtaining quotes out of China.
And freight, and customs, and import tax, and local tax, and delivery.
THEN, fabrication, waterjetting, welding, riders, storage.
Not going to get much change out of $100,000.
That's modelling.
Always takes longer than estimated, and costs more than is sensible[/green]

And November 14th:

[green]Presently on task for transom build.
This entails all the exhaust components - transom pipes, mufflers, bracketing
combined to a trial fit up.
Much more engineering involved than in a 1/35 scale build !
(all SS 316 components must be electrically isolated from aluminium hull - other wise you are making a battery. Galvanic corrosion BIG TIME ! )
(so, many insulators and extra bracketing involved)

Also $$$$ involved in fuel delivery systems.
I have spent thousands of dollars on 316 fuel plumbing components.
Fuel load........4000 liters.
Cat twin turbo V12's chew 297 Liters / hour each @ WOT)

Also working on internal exhaust system.
2 off, 8.0 meters of passivated SS 316 tubing
@ 254mm diameter (10 inch in the old money)
Photo of custom made exhaust coupling rings (316)

Shaft stern tubes (150mm diameter - 6 inch in the old money)
Shaft seals are $2,600 each (2 x required)[/green]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 6, 2019 - 8:38am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Looking like he's gonna make a good shot at the boat. Best of luck. keep us posted
[:-cheers-:]

Bill P Reese

Posted By: billpr | Posted on: Dec 8, 2019 - 3:09pm
Total Posts: 72 | Joined: Mar 19, 2017 - 4:34pm



Paul sent me some photos of the finished transom, well done Paul!

jrgLo.jpg

jrljf.jpg

jr1RI.jpg

jrFwn.jpg

jrXXa.jpg

jrMKZ.jpg

Material for the coamings (aluminum) and foot rails (TREX, artificial wood):

jrxd6.jpg

These stainless 10 exhaust elbows are $290 each (ouch), 12 required:

jrsNj.jpg

The poor guy has had to take on 2 part time jobs to help pay for his project. The one as a tour guide driving a 16 ton 4x4 bus over the dunes at Tangalooma Resort, Moreton Island requires a commute aboard some old scow:

jr0w0.jpg

His other job is as a bus driver for drunken Hens parties, the poor poor man:D

jrkTm.jpg

jrULY.jpg

If anybody would like to help with funding, Paul would greatly appreciate it. This is one great big hole in the water for one (semi) retired mechanic to try to fill with money.



Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 - 9:25am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



keep up the good work being a welder I know how hard it is to weld aluminum it can blow a hole faster than you can say PT if your not paying attention!! it takes young eyes to see the difference in the puddle before it blows away. all too shiny. I would come help weld but my eyes are way too old. looks like a tough gig driving that gaggle of hens!!

Scott Campbell 2nd gen,PT 248
Ron 20


Posted By: Scott C | Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 - 12:45pm
Total Posts: 64 | Joined: Nov 20, 2019 - 4:34pm



Hay Jeff, tell your friend, the next time he surrounded by such homely women, I would make the supreme sacrifice and hurl my body on top of them to protect him!

Seriously though, I wish I could send some money, it is an unbelievable quest he is on! Unfortunately, I am eyeball deep into a 1890 Queen Anne house, which is a pile of fancy lumber that will eat up all the money you can throw through the front door.

I try to remember, there will be some people in the distant future who will thank us for this trial of money, blood, sweat and tears!



Posted By: Stearman | Posted on: Dec 22, 2019 - 9:00pm
Total Posts: 51 | Joined: Nov 1, 2017 - 9:38pm



LOL at body hurling, and I recently read an article about restoring historical homes. You (and your bank account) have my sympathy! Do you have to go through such things as using original wood types (even if painted) and traditional woodworking methods? I think that's only for a special class of restorations, from what I remember reading.

My biggest money hole was restoring an old vette, 3 years of blood sweat and tears and tens of thousands of dollars. I had everything working for about a whole week!




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 - 7:01am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



There not that strict here, but I have tried to use as much original hardware as possible. I can't imagine doing this before the internet, I could have gone to a hundred garage sales and not found one doorknob, let alone entire rare mortise lock sets. When this is all done, I am going to look for a classic car to have some fun. I have restored many classic motorcycles, ranging from pre WWI through the 40s.



Posted By: Stearman | Posted on: Dec 23, 2019 - 8:00pm
Total Posts: 51 | Joined: Nov 1, 2017 - 9:38pm



Has anyone thought of starting a go fund me for this PT boat build?
[url]https://www.gofundme.com[/url]

Posted By: Travis B | Posted on: Dec 24, 2019 - 9:04am
Total Posts: 59 | Joined: Nov 23, 2019 - 10:11am



Thanks Travis I'll bring that up to him.



Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 25, 2019 - 4:16am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all,

I had the privileged to spend a couple weeks traveling around the Munda, New Georgia/Rendova area with Paul back in 2008. We found some neat things and although my main interest "then" was the PT boat situation in Rendova Harbor and a USAAF B-17 wreck on the island- it soon blossomed into so much more mainly being the US MIA in the Solomons.

Paul's enthusiasm into all things PT helped keep my interest alive during return trip's down island (2009/2012), but the MIA subject was my primary focus. Paul is doing a great work in keeping the memory alive over there in OZ and if you make it over there look him up and shout him a beer..lol..great conversation!

My interest in the PT boats has never left, but the MIA will always be my number one priority now- and that work is endless and often well beyond my budget; however, like Paul I will carry on.

For those of you doing the books and such- Munda and surrounds will grow and the history will get covered, or scrapped - so the time is now to get out to those old sites..someday they will be gone forever. There is soooo much to follow up on stories, rumor's, wrecks..

One rumor I remember and did not pursue is someone on one of the island villages in Rovianna lagoon supposedly has the wheel (helm) of a PT boat- I do not recall how this came up in conversation, but the local telling me this was fairly certain it was from a PT boat. I do not know if it was from the two that went on the reef nearby, or the one that was is (in WW-II) partly in the shallows off Lumbari island..or even from a PT boat?

Millions of stories-



Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Dec 26, 2019 - 7:54pm
Total Posts: 116 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm



Shaneo2:
Happy New Year!
That wheel could be from one of 4 boats, 117, 153, 158 or 164. (a 5th boat and real long shot would be PT 166, but I believe this was sunk in deep water, in the area) it would b great to find it/buy it from the local, if it is a true ELCO wheel.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 3, 2020 - 10:14am
Total Posts: 2906 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Paul sent me an update, full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes! Most excellent Paul, you sure know how to get things done even in tough times:

[green]Hi Jeff.
Latest update as at May 21, 2020.

All 5 bulkheads and all 35 frames now completed.
Big trucks required to transport these components. ($$$$)

Frame rider fabrication specialized equipment,
expensive, but makes the assembly fit perfect.

For the technically minded.........
10mm 5083 H116 DNV aluminum
Welding to x ray quality and destruction test sampling.

Weld machine Fronius 320 pulse* mig with 1.2mm 5356 wire.
The Fronius welder is the latest intelligent version.
The cutting edge boat builders in OZ have ditched their Millers and Lincolns.
After imputing the parameters - material grade, thickness, filler wire grade and size,
deposition mode required.......consistent perfect welds. (and, 100% duty cycle ! )
After just 1 week of training on these welders........perfect welds.
Watching these machines in action is like having a cup of tea with God.

* pulse mig is the difference between a weld and a perfect weld.

Zero income having an effect on construction timeline, as expected.
But, as usual..........Damn the torpedoes......full speed ahead.

Starting now on the hull longitudinals and engine girders.
(engine girders are 5m x 1m x 16mm thickness........4 required)(5083 ally of course)
Also, deck scantlings.
( 50mm x 75mm x 6mm angles......16 x 80 feet = 1280 feet .....there are 1320 feet in a drag strip!)

Pedaling as hard as I can.

Stay safe Jeff.......and many thanks for your assist to date.
Paul.
(model boat builder, scale 1:1)
(Elco - Australian division)[/green]

jD3xH.jpg

jDwvt.jpg

jDhiT.jpg

jDo3w.jpg

jDCts.jpg

jDOZ4.jpg




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 24, 2020 - 9:55am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



MIND-BLOWING PROJECT...

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: May 24, 2020 - 2:04pm
Total Posts: 1923 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Paul, what a great job you are doing. as stated before as a welder I know the old school way of welding aluminum with TIG and feeding wire. new technology and computers are great. Maybe these old eyes could do the welding after all ! just need a few thousand and the wife's permission- that would be the hard part!! for the trip down under during your summer. Again great job!! Scott[:-smilearound-:]

Scott Campbell 2nd gen,PT 248
Ron 20


Posted By: Scott C | Posted on: May 24, 2020 - 2:18pm
Total Posts: 64 | Joined: Nov 20, 2019 - 4:34pm



Yah Will for sure.

Paul mentioned that he'll be following Elco's upside down hull construction method:

jDy77.jpg




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 25, 2020 - 6:46am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Paul sent an image that shows the scale of his massive project well:

[green]Last of the frame pics to show the 1:1 scale size of this model boat components.
That's Dan my welder guy.
Certified ISO, DNV, Lloyds, USL and Australian Standards Association.
FYI, Australian company, Austal, builds 15% of the US Navy fleet.
(high speed aluminium vessels)
I am starting on the hull longtitudinals now.
(engine bearers / hull stiffeners / scantlings)[green]

jYMKk.jpg




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jul 2, 2020 - 10:16am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Any guess-ta-mates as to the total cost of this epic undertaking?

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 3, 2020 - 3:42pm
Total Posts: 1923 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



My guess would be "boat loads". :D

I sent him an e-mail asking.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jul 4, 2020 - 11:22am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Hey Will, I received some excellent advice from Paul regarding your question:

[green]Consider the basics.

Why do you want to build it ?
How much money have you got ?
How much money can you get ?

There are 2 main start points.

A ) Do you build to commercial standards ?
(USL / US Coast Guard / DNV / Lloyds)
(in Australia it is called Commercial survey)
This build allows charter -for fee or reward.
or,
B ) Build for private / recreational use only.

A) allow 2-3 million dollars
B) allow 1-2 million dollars

How do I know this ?
I don't even have to answer that......it's obvious.

You can reduce these costs a little.
(underline.....a little),
by doing most of the work yourself.
Especially in a private build, like mine.

When you build commercial, you are locked into a VERY expensive process.
VERY expensive.
Government regulations fill books.

My advice to start.
Buy a 1/35 Italeri PT109 model.
Don't glue it together.
Just stare at all the parts for ONE month.
Consider how much every part would cost to reproduce scale 1:1.
Then consider how much these parts in a WORKING vessel would cost.
Next step.
Obtain estimates (not quotes) from boat builders.
(be sitting down)

Still interested ?
Then, engage a qualified Naval Architect to draw up the plans.
You CANNOT do this yourself, no matter what field of engineering you specialize in, no matter how clever you are at CAD / CAM design.
How do I know this ?

You cannot build a rocketship unless you are a rocket scientist.

Do your research.

For example........allow AT LEAST $50,000 for a competent Naval Architect to draw up complete plans.
That's what I had to pay.
This is an 80 foot, high speed patrol boat.
This ain't no Bass boat !

FYI,
My 2 x USED engines + gearboxes......$100,000 +
Replica helm.............$1,200 (could have purchased standard helm for $90)
Check out the costs of your proposed engines / gearboxes.

Wooden build completely out of the question.
That's easy $2.5 million.
IF you could find the craftsman.

With an aluminium ( USA - aluminum ) build,
decide on Routing, Laser or Waterjet cutting components.

The list goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.....you get the picture.[/green]

LOL eh? [:-laughing-:]



Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jul 8, 2020 - 2:43pm
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



LOL - Mind-boggling...

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 9, 2020 - 10:07am
Total Posts: 1923 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Sounds like a real labor of love! The most noble of quest!



Posted By: Stearman | Posted on: Jul 9, 2020 - 9:12pm
Total Posts: 51 | Joined: Nov 1, 2017 - 9:38pm



Paul has been busy working on the 20mm, he plans on adding a propane powered firing system for those too slow in giving right of way. He is also relieved that parts of Australia are being opened up and he's able to get back to work. PT boat construction ain't cheap!:

[green]Tangalooma Wild Dolphin Resort has opened up again, and I am working there now.
Financial relief at last !
Party bus rocking with heaps of drunk hens. (pic attached for your viewing pleasure)
Life is good again.[/green]

Paul has a great deal of respect for JFK, the man that inspired his project. He had this to say:

[green]I have ordered crew dixie hats and one CO hat.
It is my intention to never wear the Captains hat or uniform.
I am not JFK's bootlace.
Never will be.
I will allocate the CO hat to others on board.
That is my plan.
(better build the boat first !)[/green]

Some photos of the 20mm cradle construction. He used a Toyota Landcruiser wheel hub as the base of the cradle:

jgV3T.jpg

jgf9t.jpg

jgKZs.jpg

Poor guy, having to slave away in this kind of work environment:

jguIw.jpg




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Aug 13, 2020 - 6:31am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



That last photograph reminds me, tell Paul, he's a braver man then I! Love the progress photos, please keep them coming.



Posted By: Stearman | Posted on: Aug 13, 2020 - 9:41pm
Total Posts: 51 | Joined: Nov 1, 2017 - 9:38pm



Hah! I'll bet he's seen some stuff, especially later in the evening when the booze is flowing freely. And him being a kid in a candy store with no money.



Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Aug 14, 2020 - 3:16am
Total Posts: 1935 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Boat not even finished, and already a full crew aboard...

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 14, 2020 - 9:23am
Total Posts: 1923 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Very nice crew you have.[:-cheers-:]

Bill P Reese

Posted By: billpr | Posted on: Aug 14, 2020 - 7:40pm
Total Posts: 72 | Joined: Mar 19, 2017 - 4:34pm