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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: shapeways price changes
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THIS IS IMPORTANT: I was informed that after May 22nd 2017, shapeways will change the price for frosted detail material.

One of the changes is that they will charge 1 $ for each loose part in the model set.

This means that figure sets and multiparts sets will increase his price about a 250 %.

Probably small figure sets (form 1/64 and under) will be unafordable or even directly deleted from my catalog.

If you are interested on some of these and wants to order in a near future, this may be the last chance to do it.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Luis



Posted By: HOLDEN8702 | Posted on: May 8, 2017 - 10:37pm
Total Posts: 47 | Joined: Apr 13, 2016 - 1:36am



Thanks for the heads up. This may kill a significant part of their and your business. Unless frosted detail is a small part of their business, only people like you will suffer. This may also hamper future kits for us modelers.



Posted By: Capt Speirs | Posted on: May 9, 2017 - 9:13am
Total Posts: 41 | Joined: Feb 21, 2016 - 6:56pm



BOMBS AWAY!

https://www.shapeways.com/forum/t/roadmap-to-major-fud-improvements-starts-with-repricing.80212/



Posted By: HOLDEN8702 | Posted on: May 9, 2017 - 1:25pm
Total Posts: 47 | Joined: Apr 13, 2016 - 1:36am



Not very encouraging news...



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: May 9, 2017 - 2:27pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Well there goes the old wrench in the machinery! I have ordered many items from Holden, and he has helped me in the scales I needed. With no question asked! I like shapeways designers and only had three items damaged or lost parts.

The detail can't be beat. And the prices were a little high on some items, but worth it.

I may not be able to buy anymore because of the price change. I haven't read anything from shapeways yet. But I guest it coming.

Thanks for the heads up.




Bill P Reese

Posted By: billpr | Posted on: May 9, 2017 - 4:24pm
Total Posts: 83 | Joined: Mar 19, 2017 - 4:34pm



According to SW:

[green]Beginning the week of May 22, 70% of products printed in FUD will become cheaper! Another 10% will remain the at current price, and for 20%, the price will increase.[/green]

But I'll believe that when I see it.

Although they added a charge for support wax used, they did come down on the actual plastic cost quite a bit. So taller parts with overhangs needing an equally tall wax support buildup will likely be the ones to suffer.

To "help" with this, their plans are:

[green]At upload, our 3D model processing will automatically calculate the cheapest orientation for your model.[/green]

But surfaces facing up come out the best followed by sides and roughest at the bottom. So I try to orient my models to print accordingly. And although the following quote from that article sounds good:

[green]This pricing structure also lays the groundwork for you to control the 3D printing orientation (more about this in near future).[/green]

I think it's also laying the groundwork for the answer to "why did my model jump up in price so much when I changed the print orientation for best quality?".

Up until a few years ago, the cost was purely plastic cc's used. Lots of sticker shock when they added the "machine space" charge.

I understand that they need to make money. Let's hope for the best.

Luis, one possibility would be to put many small parts in a mesh cage or "sintershell" as they call it.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 10, 2017 - 1:14am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Thanks, Jeff.

Yes, yesterday my main thoughts were about a cage with the figures or small ship parts into it...
but this morning I wake up thinking that a base mesh could also work with figures without increasing max height and material, sprueing only the figure shoe base.

Well, till I can test diferent solutions with a real final price, I'm absolutely blind.

Best regards

Luis



Posted By: HOLDEN8702 | Posted on: May 10, 2017 - 6:38am
Total Posts: 47 | Joined: Apr 13, 2016 - 1:36am



Thanks for the update. I started using Shapeways at the beginning of this year. Think they are expensive, try someone else that has equal machines and quality. I found Shapeways to be 25-150% cheaper. I just wish they had a tough water resistant plastic.

Tips...

When I create my models that have multiple parts I add sprues. Sure that adds material, but it avoids the loose parts charge. Don't overdo it with the sprues in making them too thick. A slight undercut at where they join the part helps is making a cleaner cut. Also, try to attach the sprue in an inconspicuous surface such as the bottom of a shoe on a figure or between joints that are to be glued together.

Machine space - try to compact your parts close together to keep machine space at a minimum. Watch surfaces so that if you have one that is aat a slight angle (i.e. a wedge) orient it so the surface with the most importance is vertical or horizontal to avoid stairs-steps caused by the layering process, otherwise you will need sandpaper or files to correct this.

Lew
Lew's Model Boats (Shapeways store)
[url]https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gunboat-61[/url]

Lew Zee

Posted By: Lew Zee | Posted on: May 10, 2017 - 9:40am
Total Posts: 141 | Joined: Dec 12, 2013 - 12:04pm



I either use the mounting pins to sprue or even better make a sprue cage so no trimming is needed. Just cut the cage to free the part. Like on these 35th scale .50's I've been working on:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/shapeways/50_Cal_35th_SW_Ready_Sprued.jpg[/image]

I made this cage with the changes in mind, minimal horizontal sprue up high that would need a tower of support wax. I hope it will be at least a 10 percenter with the new pricing...




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 10, 2017 - 12:00pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Finished with more weird spruage. The flash hiders are on studs that don't go all the way up to the top horizontal bar to eliminate sprue trimming. The barrels are designed to be attached like the cool brass ones from Master Model as an option:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/shapeways/50_Cal_35th_SW_Ready_Sprued_2.jpg[/image]

One thing you have to be careful of Lew is SW gremlins on models with joined pieces. They showed up on this model by disappearing one of the plates for the cocking mechanism. Luckily it came back when I added the barrels and hiders. Always closely inspect the upload to make sure everything is there.

I wonder if SW's model business is doing well enough to have them consider custom PE. There's so much that's just too thin to do right in plastic. I'd love to see Bridge's set become available.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 11, 2017 - 3:13am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Just when I thought all the parts have been made out come bow fairlead and the .50's. Are you going to do the fairlead in 1/35? Great work Jeff!
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: May 11, 2017 - 7:11pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



This man is going to ruin me[:-rdo-:]

Daniele Kläy

Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: May 11, 2017 - 11:11pm
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm



When I stopped last year (burned out and caretaking) I had already done the fairlead body Dave. So I tried a 1/16th at SW and it failed but not too badly, mostly around the rear edges and bottom where it tapers. Got that to pass and did a 20th version. I don't know about a 35th, I fear it will look too clunky since I have to raise the whole top and push out the front more for every smaller scale. But I'll try.

The .50's are for Jerry, he's making an acey deucey which didn't use the rear wood grips. But I figure they will also work for the Mark 17 mount. I did find some armory drawings for the grips and brackets and triggers so will probably make some for deck gun use. And some without the fancy cocking mechanism, just the plain rod.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 12, 2017 - 4:07am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



The fairlead's up Dave. It doesn't look too clunky but I did have to reduce the throat a little. The gun is up too, I changed the sprue again to make the parts easier to get loose.

It will be interesting to see how the price change will affect the fairlead since they will be charging for the support wax that will need to fill under the body and inside the throat.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 12, 2017 - 5:03pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Outstanding work Jeff! The fairlead looks great in the drawing. Can hardly notice any difference between it and the larger scales.

I'm inclined to go with the straight bar charging handle. I've looked at a lot of photos. I see both but the majority seem to be the straight bar. My 105 boat will need a .50 on the bow so I'm interested to see what you cook up.

Jerry and I will put in a group order I'm sure.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: May 12, 2017 - 9:21pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Jeff, I had a look at your fairlead, looks very nice but I noticed the sides are angled at 90°, and the correspondent drawing also seems to indicate 45° from centerline; the point is the "5" in the drawing is quite blurry, could be an "8" as well. I did my fairlead at 90° and I have a miserable fit, the bow of my hull being at approx. 98°,consistent with deck arrangement drawings-I know NEVER EVER trust drawings[:-good-:]- but I'll have to adjust the angle of my fairlead. I wonder if others encountered this problem also.
The .50s are two little gems...
regards

Daniele Kläy

Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: May 12, 2017 - 11:38pm
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm



Thanks David! Without any factual evidence, a guess would be that they could save close to 10 pounds per gun by dumping the cast iron (?) plate of the RSG (retracting slide group) amd just use the plain tube charging handle (a 1992 manual calls it an auxiliary bolt handle for use when other charging methods fail). The drawback is that the handle travels back and forth with the bolt and could easily break bones if a hand slipped off the grips. I don't know if / when they started using the handle straight from the factory but I have an image showing a twin deck gun that uses the handle with a clear shadow visible on the receiver of where the RSG used to be. I plan on making a gun set with the plain handles although the RSG adds a lot of nice detail.

Daniele, actually they are at 48 degrees off center both sides for a total of 96. That's the nice thing about bringing the scaled drawings into my 3D program, I can figure out is that a 3? a 5? an 8?. In this case it was an 8. Luckily I've found the Elco drawings to be very accurate and have imported them into my program for virtually every part. Although they can also be scaled by pixels and used in an image program.

Here's the fit to the hull, the horizontal black line under the yellow fairlead is where the planked hull (minus the guards) would come to a point:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/Bow_Fairlead_Fit.jpg[/image]

I created the hull from the many many measurements taken from an actual hull in the offset table and the guards by following the molded 6 (if I remember right). I was greatly relieved when the fairlead fit... :D




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 13, 2017 - 3:17am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am