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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: colors for PT
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I am sure we have all seen that wonderful model that Stu Hurley did of Italeri's PT-109. The complete write up is on pt103.com web site. The description of what and how he made the boat is really something. My only thing is that he does not mention what he used for the color of the boat, which is what I am looking for.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 8:43am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Frank,
I used Humbrol enamels 'Ocean grey' 106 mostly, lightened with white.
The copperoyd color was just 'Rust' 113. Both these colours were shaded considerably so there were more variations in there.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 3:26pm
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



This page is a nice guide as to how he achieves his masterful weathering: [url]http://www.pt103.com/Italeri_PT109_Build_Stuart_Hurley_4.html[/url]. Your painting skills really are wonderful Stu. [:-cheers-:]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 4:21pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Thanks Jeff.
I will get back on the 195 soon.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 4:39pm
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Are you saying that after long last

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/mojo.jpg[/image]

?




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 4:55pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Jeff,
Where did you get that photo of me?[:-laughing-:]

One of the reasons I left the 195 model alone was anxiety about the colour I have painted it.
I went for a faded green 5 NG but I am not sure whether I should have gone lighter with MTB green.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 5:09pm
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Stu
Lets see some photos of what the paint looks like on 195.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 6:21pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Thanks so much Stu, I will pass along all of this wonderful information to the gentlemen that will be doing the 109 for me in gray.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Feb 17, 2016 - 8:14pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Ted,
I will take some photos and you can have a look.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 18, 2016 - 2:03am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Ted ,
Here is a photo of the 195 see what you think of the colour.
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/stuartHurleyItaleriPT109Build/PT_195_Stu_Hurley2.jpg[/image]

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 18, 2016 - 11:53am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Stu;
I looks fine to me. Are you going to add the name on the Maxon? Did you want the color to appear darker? Take some shots in Black and White with different modes of lighting, I think you are very close to the original color in our photos.
Take care
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 18, 2016 - 5:09pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Stu

What colors did you paint the 195?, and will you post more photos of her.




Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Feb 18, 2016 - 6:06pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Ted,
Thanks
I have added the name on the Maxson. It's not a great photo. I will take some more when She's nearer completion. I should get the base this weekend, then I have to create the water somehow.

Frank,
The colour is Humbrol enamel 102 lightened with white.
It's not too yellow like most of the other greens.
More photos to come.
This site may be useful.
http://www.cybermodeler.com/color/usn_matrix.shtml

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 18, 2016 - 10:34pm
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Hallo Stu, your model looks terrific !! But IMMO the quadmount should be overall OD, what made you keep it in the same color of the rest of the boat?
Great job[:-cheers-:]
Regards.

Daniele Kläy

Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Feb 18, 2016 - 10:54pm
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm



Hello Daniele.
I thought about it but as the boat was repainted I reckoned that they would have at least painted the armour shield. I have left the interior and frames in drab, also the ammo cans. In the photo with the Japanese prisoner tonally it looks the same as the boat. Like most things just a guess.
Liking the progress on your project, keep up the good work.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 19, 2016 - 12:09am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Hallo Stu,your arguments are surely solid; what name did you apply to the maxson's armor ?
Did you use humbrol 113 also for this hull? I'll be paiting the lower hull of my model pretty soon(in a couple of weeks) in order to install the mufflers. I'll be using a black priming with light modulation; did yuo use a light priming?
I think black primer is favorable as a basis for water level staining.
Greetings

Daniele Kläy

Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Feb 19, 2016 - 1:20am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm



Hi Daniele,
Yes, I used 113 for the copperoyd colour. On the 109 model I modulated it with black and brick red colours. I am putting this model on a water base so I have not done much to the lower hull as it will be in resin. I have still to add some waterline staining.
I have been told the name on the turret was Helen but no clear photos exist of it so the font is another guess.
I think you will need to paint the entire transom complete with staining before installing the mufflers. I made up a transom panel and worked on that separately whilst building up the muffler and pushrod assembly. It is easier than working on the complete hull and can be fitted last as the assembly will get broken during the build.
Good luck

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 19, 2016 - 2:59am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Hi Stu, that was the plan, I'll paint the antifouling,lower transom and basic staining and then install the completed mufflers/valves/pusrods assy.Then I'll go on with deck and gunwhale guard,'cause I like to have sections completed as I go on, a little risky but who dares wins!
What does humbrol 102 stand for on your model,some field mixed green?
Awaiting eagerly more photos of that beauty[:-cheers-:]
Regards

Daniele Kläy

Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Feb 20, 2016 - 12:39am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm



Daniele,
Humbrol call it Army green. Pretty nondescript but it is greyish rather than yellow which is what I was looking for as a starting point.
Might be wise to build a temporary protective box or similar over your mufflers while you build the rest of the boat as they will get smashed many times. Ask me how I know.[:-smilearound-:]

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 20, 2016 - 1:39am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Go figure how this could ever happen[:-confused2-:] I already managed to drop my model once[:-rdo-:].
Jokes aside, when (and if) I'll come to the painting stage of the upper structures I'll leave traces of the original 31/5P piantwork showing through in areas of heavy wear,maybe even the gray coat underneath/bare wood.
The gunwhale guard being an ideal area for such treatment.
Reagards

Daniele Kläy

Posted By: Daniele Klay | Posted on: Feb 20, 2016 - 2:20am
Total Posts: 126 | Joined: Jun 23, 2015 - 12:43pm



Daniele,
O.K. will be interesting. Remenber though that although conditions were harsh the boats were painted regularly and !95 had recently been painted (In New Guinea IIRC) during the 'charthouse art' era if that is how you will portray her.,
Looking forward to your next update.


Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 20, 2016 - 3:14am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am




Frank,
I used Humbrol enamels 'Ocean grey' 106 mostly, lightened with white.
The copperoyd color was just 'Rust' 113. Both these colours were shaded considerably so there were more variations in there.

Best Regards,
Stu.






I just want to thank you for the great job you did on the 109. Your posting of the step by step on PT103.com inspired me to give it a go. I bought the Italeri PT109 and now I am studying all that can about it to help with the build. I have a request, unless I'm blind and didn't see it in your article. Can you list the thickness of the sheet plastics and other pieces you used to correct your model? Particularly the Chart House. Apparently the Armour on the Chart House is only .5 inch thick, that's really thin plastic in 1/35 scale. Again thank you for your fantastic work that inspired me to take this project on. This will be my first Naval Vessel,



Posted By: Capt Speirs | Posted on: Feb 21, 2016 - 7:08pm
Total Posts: 41 | Joined: Feb 21, 2016 - 6:56pm



Hello and welcome,
Thanks for the kind words. When I started that kit I was a new member and didn't know one end of a PT boat from the other, but the experts here saw that I wanted to do the best job on the kit possible so gave me all the help I needed.
If you need any help with information for your build don't hesitate to ask. I am sure someone on the forum will be able to help.
Regarding your question about plastic card, I think it was 0.10" (0.3mm) for the cockpit armour. For other modificarions where neccessary I either used thicker sheet, strip and rod or laminated until I had the thickness that looked right.
If I had my time again I would probably go with a lighter gray to start with, probably Humbrol 128 (FS26320) to save mixing.
Good luck with the build. Be sure to post some photos.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 22, 2016 - 3:49am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Stu,
Thanks for the Quick response, I just got back from the LHS $65 lighter buying Evergreen. What did you use for the bolts, my LHS suggested I use Plastruct's Hexagon rods and slice them to size, but I don't know what size the bolts are on a PT. Where did you get the helmets and .50 cal belts from?

I know there is a lot of heated debate on the color of the PT 109, but I decided, like you, to go gray. I selected Ocean Gray 5-O from Testers as the base color. Not sure what color the Copperoyd its going to be yet. I'm not a rivet counter but close (a touch OCD). I really appreciate your efforts in documenting your build, without it I think I would still be looking for incentive
.
One thing I have noticed in my research of the PT's, there is a lot of contradiction (shouldn't surprise me it was the same with WWII Armor) of the color on the PT 109. I personally think the issues us modelers have with the correct color is color blindness in the eyewitnesses which is very common in males.

I was a 17 year Army Brat and lived in Germany on bases most of the 17 years. I can tell you that from what I had experienced when it came to painting vehicles in the motor pool is, it's green, use it. When the vehicles were freshly painted it didn't take long for the weather to take its toll on the color, quickly fading it out. I personally have talked to older Vets (both German and American) about what they saw and I must say embellishment was not spared (can't blame them, when you're proud, you're proud).

One thing I noticed in quite a few pics of the PT 103 and 105 is the extremely long antenna on the Port side front corner of the Bridge. I assume it is telescoping and so not extended unless in use.

I will be starting soon, hope to remember to take pics as I go. Again thanks.

Ric




Posted By: Capt Speirs | Posted on: Feb 22, 2016 - 2:30pm
Total Posts: 41 | Joined: Feb 21, 2016 - 6:56pm



As has been discussed at length on this Forum, any paint job not factory-fresh was subject to wind, weather, salt spray and the availability of ANY paints Out In The Area. I don't think there is such a thing as the "correct" color for any of these working boats.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 22, 2016 - 5:41pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Yes the antennas were sectioned. I don't know if the crew normally collapsed them when docked, I have images of them up as well as down.

To show that Will is not just talking ship, one of my favorite PT color shots:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/PT61/PT_061_May_1943_Color_07_Captioned_Small.jpg[/image]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 22, 2016 - 6:11pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Hello CS,
The nuts and bolts I used were mainly from Meng models. they come in various styles and you just slice them off a backing sheet. I also used some from spare tank model wheels.
The .50 cal belts are from LiveResin.
I can't remember where I got the helmets from but there are many to choose from if you have a google.
The infamous green colour of the 109 has sparked many a thread on this board. Lots of people have their theories. At least if you go with gray scheme of the boat as seen on the Stanton there is no doubt about the configuration prior to shipping out. After that anything goes.


Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 23, 2016 - 2:14am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Stu,
She looks great! I wasn't sure what to think of that Maxson gun on the port bow but I have to say it really looks the part. The art work looks great and the overall look of a PT Boat that's gone through field transitions comes to life in your build. I think you've done her proud Stu!
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Feb 23, 2016 - 4:29am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Dave,
Thanks, I have got the base now so I have to create the water next.
I must admit I haven't been looking forward to it as it is make or break in this scale.


Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 23, 2016 - 4:34am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



I've always liked Model Master Medium Green FS34102 enamel for PT green myself, appropriately lightened (the deck, primarily) where necessary.



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 23, 2016 - 3:42pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Drew,
That looks a good starting point, similar to Humbrol 105.
I tried several different greens in the Humbrol range and my main concern was that most look too yellow in scale. I went for 105 initially and ended up fading it with 102 which is much grayer. I have a crisis about which colour 195 actually was at the timeframe of the model. I'm not sure whether she was 5NG or MTB green or something else when repainted the overall shade. This is why I left the model alone for a while. In photos she looks too light to be fresh 5NG so I went lighter to match the tonality of the photos. As far as I can tell it is somewhere near.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Feb 23, 2016 - 6:01pm
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



nice work!!! have been looking to try to find what the color scheme of my Dad's boat would have been. his boat was the Roarin 20, PT 120. anyone have any idea what the color scheme would have been? I purchsed the 109 model and want to make it into my Dad's boat. thanx for any help.



Posted By: PT120 | Posted on: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:32pm
Total Posts: 11 | Joined: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:27pm



PT 120;
Welcome aboard, What was your Dad's name and what period of time was he on PT 120?
I have to ask, why did you pick a RON 30 emblem for your avatar? Suggest you change it to RON 6 or RON 8 depending on the time frame he was on "The Roarin 20".
Again welcome.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:46pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



didn't realize the avatar had a ron group associated with it. will probably go with ron 8.

his name was bob allen, wound up the skipper at one point. will have to check on the dates.

thanx for the reply!!!!!!!!!!!!



Posted By: PT120 | Posted on: Feb 24, 2016 - 8:07pm
Total Posts: 11 | Joined: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:27pm



PT 120;
I got his info: CAPT. Milton Robert "Bob" Allen USNR(Ret.), MTBTC early summer1944, joined RON 8 at Aitape, New Guinea ( June-Aug 1944) and replaced Ensign William T "Bill" Shine USNR as Skipper of PT 120.
I will look for some photos.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 24, 2016 - 9:14pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



PT 120: I have several pictures of the boat. Give me your email address and I'll send them.

Will

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 24, 2016 - 10:10pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



I sent several to NAVSOURCE website, I just looked and there are 4 photos of PT120 on there already. 3 were the ones I got from skipper Bill Skade, CO of PT143. He was there in 1944-45 and may have taken some photos of other skippers in the Squadron. I will look through the photos and post them here. All the pics are Black and White so it is hard to tell colors.

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Feb 24, 2016 - 10:15pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Jerry;
the info I have shows that Bob Allen was skipper of PT 120 during Borneo operation(May 211945). June 2/3 mission up Kretam River. June 9 with PT 149 went in to shoot up Sandakan Harbor. June 13 with PT 318 landed guerrillas on Semporna. On Aug 23/24 1945 mentions dropping off guerrillas on Borneo for intel gathering mission, maybe Alamo Scouts, it only mentions "SRD Representatives"(Special Reconnaissance Detachment). , on Aug 29/30 another mission, and after pick up they dropped SRD off on USS Pokomoke. On Sept1-4 RON 8 moved back to Malamuai Island, Zamboanga( PT Advanced base 3), On Sep 19 they moved to Base 17 Samar. Oct. 25 All boats I RON 8(11) were burned, Oct 28 Decomm.
ACQ's mentions in appendix D, that he was wounded.
That would be nice if Bill Skade's other photos has a photo of him.
Take care,
TED



PT 120 RON 8 crew 1944.




PT 120 RON 8 Underway 1944-45, (LTjg Bill Skade USNR photo via Jerry Gilmartin).




PT 120 and other RON 8 boats alongside USS Orestes(AGP-10), USS Hilo (AGP-2)at that time, Flagship COMMTBRONS7thFLT in background. December 23, 1944-Jan 1945 time frame.(LTjg Bill Skade USNR photo via Jerry Gilmartin).




RON 8 ready to burn, October 25, 1945.



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 25, 2016 - 6:58am
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Thanx again so much!!!! for some reason, I am not getting e-mail notifications of posts being made. I will have to try to see why. you are right, few even knew my Dad's first name so you (Will) got it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Posted By: PT120 | Posted on: Mar 8, 2016 - 6:59pm
Total Posts: 11 | Joined: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:27pm




Thanx again so much!!!! for some reason, I am not getting e-mail notifications of posts being made. I will have to try to see why. you are right, few even knew my Dad's first name so you (Ted) got it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








Posted By: PT120 | Posted on: Mar 8, 2016 - 7:01pm
Total Posts: 11 | Joined: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:27pm




I sent several to NAVSOURCE website, I just looked and there are 4 photos of PT120 on there already. 3 were the ones I got from skipper Bill Skade, CO of PT143. He was there in 1944-45 and may have taken some photos of other skippers in the Squadron. I will look through the photos and post them here. All the pics are Black and White so it is hard to tell colors.

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR


That would be great!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Posted By: PT120 | Posted on: Mar 8, 2016 - 7:03pm
Total Posts: 11 | Joined: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:27pm




PT 120: I have several pictures of the boat. Give me your email address and I'll send them.

Will

Will


e-mail sent. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!




Posted By: PT120 | Posted on: Mar 8, 2016 - 7:05pm
Total Posts: 11 | Joined: Feb 24, 2016 - 4:27pm



Hello Stuart Hurley. My name is Roman. I started making the model PT-195, based on the PT-596. Please help me with the inscriptions on the wheelhouse. If it is easy then with a mock decal with inscriptions, or large photos of cutting. Thank you. My e-mail treskov76@gmail.com .



Posted By: starom | Posted on: Nov 19, 2017 - 10:27am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered







Posted By: starom | Posted on: Nov 19, 2017 - 10:31am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Roman,
I used a Kits World decal sheet for a B17 named 'Sentimental Journey' for my charthouse art. The sheet in 1/48 is nearest in size but I cut down the figure a little to make it fit and painted in the swimsuit in red.
The name TOODLES in red outlined in white is hand painted. The hull numbers were made up using paint stencils. All the mission markings were either hand painted or made up with white decal stripe.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Nov 20, 2017 - 5:01am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Stuart, thank you so much.
Can you take the photo of inscriptions. It's for me as the example. If you can, share information of PT-195. I make the model for the competition. So I need all the confirmed information.
Thanks,
Roman



Posted By: starom | Posted on: Nov 20, 2017 - 10:41am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



I will mail you a photo.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Nov 22, 2017 - 4:20am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



Thank you so much. You helped me a lot with this photos.



Posted By: starom | Posted on: Nov 25, 2017 - 8:25am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Thank you so much. You helped me a lot with this photos.



Posted By: starom | Posted on: Nov 25, 2017 - 8:25am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



I can't see the photos, I think there is a problem....



Posted By: deewelch | Posted on: Dec 3, 2017 - 8:07pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Hello,
Nope, I mailed them to his personal address which he posted above.


Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Dec 4, 2017 - 2:26am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



wow,a bow mounted thunderbolt.



Posted By: Dale | Posted on: Dec 29, 2018 - 4:30pm
Total Posts: 13 | Joined: Dec 29, 2018 - 1:34pm