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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Al's Facebook photos
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=3969
I went to the original facebook page, which I suggest you all look at, there are quite a lot of photos on all subjects. there are 3 albums of PT/MTB photos.
including these three photos I found:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT%20109%20LT%20ROLLIN%20WESTHOLM%20PT%20109.jpg[/image]
LT Rollin Westholm, at the wheel of ......PT 109, his flag boat.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/RON%202%20OFFICER%20AT%20WHEEL.jpg[/image]
Officer at the wheel of another 80" ELCO, Tulagi. Does anyone have an I.D. on this officer?
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT%20sharkmouth.jpg[/image]
I don't know this Officer either. The only 80' ELCO's that I know of that had a shark mouth painted on them was Rex Anderson's PT 156 RON 9 and Alfred Vanderbilt's PT 196 RON 12. Since the photos in the album were mostly Tulagi photos, I am thinking this is PT 156 RON 9(but I thought the shark mouth was painted on later at Mios Woendi 1944-45).
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 28, 2015 - 1:13pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted - Any chance the shark-mouth is the 116? I have seen a Tulagi photo captioned that way.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Dec 28, 2015 - 4:24pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Will;
it is possible. Can you find and post the photo of PT 116 that you are talking about?
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 28, 2015 - 4:42pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
LEMME LOOK...
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Dec 28, 2015 - 4:44pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Will;
Never mind, I found it. The photo is on pg 98 of Frank Johnson's book.
Yes this is PT 116 RON 6. Now all I have to do is figure who the officer is. Alexander Wells was CO and Ralph Richards was Exec when they first arrived at Tulagi. But this guy does not look like either one. In fact, it is the same guy in both photos, so the second and third photo are of PT 116 RON 6
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 28, 2015 - 8:24pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Wow! Great "new" photos of PTs at Tulagi! Gotta love 'em.
Observations...the inboard port cockpit bulkhead surface of the 109 in that Rollin Westholm photo sure looks rough...looks like wood, with vertical screws along the forward edge...and the inboard port cockpit bulkhead of the 116 looks very low in the photo of the Ron 6 officer...
Thanks for posting these, Ted.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 29, 2015 - 8:41am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Drew;
The PT 116 officer appears to be standing on something to be so high, probably for better visibility forward(we used a mortar ammo box to stand on for shorter guys) or maybe just for the photo.
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 29, 2015 - 11:08am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Nice Al, and good detective work Ted and Will, Another 109 pic maybe, very cool!
I see the rain cover post is tapered at the bottom, now I'm bothered that my render is wrong. [:-stong-:]
There was a step / seat in the inboard corner of the armor he might be standing on.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 29, 2015 - 1:24pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Ted:
What is the site on facebook?
JBG
Posted By: JBG327 | Posted on: Dec 29, 2015 - 1:50pm
Total Posts: 74 | Joined: Sep 29, 2012 - 2:40pm
Ted and Jeff,
At first I thought the Ron 6 officer was standing on something, but I made the comment on the low cockpit bulkhead due to the position of the throttles in relation to the height of the bulkhead...its much, much lower than usual.
And Jeff...what is a "rain cover post" and where is it in those photos?
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 29, 2015 - 2:57pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Jeff(JBG327)
Here you go.....there is ALOT of photos, on all subjects WW2, but a lot about Med ground war. Go to photos then albums.
https://www.facebook.com/Radio.WW2/?fref=photo
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 29, 2015 - 3:54pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Here is the photo Will and I were mentioning and a few more.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT-116%20TULAGI.jpg[/image]
PT 116 at dock, showing sharks mouth.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT%20116%20tulagi.jpg[/image]
PT 116 at dock Tulagi, photo taken from next boat.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/pt116.jpg[/image]
PT 116 RON 6 underway July 1943, photographed from U.S.S. Nicholas (DD 449). I think I can just see a painted eye on the port bow.(I just received this copy from Gene, it is much clearer and larger. What I thought was the painted eye is actually light between the towing pennant and the hull. updated:12/30/2015).
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/RonSixofficers-2.jpg[/image]
RON 6 Officers: ENS. Dick North(PT 117 CO, later PT 187 CO),LT. Craig Smith(PT 126 CO, RON 6 Exec 2/1/43), LT. Clark Faulkner (PT 124 CO,RON 6 Exec, RON 6 CO 2/1/43), ENS. Bartholomew "Bart" Connolly (PT 115 CO). LTjg Billups Percy(PT 118 CO). In foreground, ENS. Alexander "Alex" Wells(PT116 CO) LTjg. Clark "Chip" Murray (PT 125 CO).
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 29, 2015 - 5:34pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Thanks Ted, I see you broke down and registered on FB. [:-grin-:]
I'm not sure of the right term for it Drew, but it's the vertical post with the notch on top the officer has his thumb on in the photo captioned Officer at the wheel of another 80 ELCO.
I dunno Drew, the tops of the throttle knobs look to be in the right place to me, about level with the top of the bulkhead:
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/PT_Boat_Elco_103_Class_Bridge_And_Chart_House_Perspective_Details_Helm.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 6:01am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
OK, but...my point is, the portion of the bulkhead aft of the Ron 6 officer's wrist goes straight back, instead of rising to the higher...height usually seen.
That higher bulkhead, sometimes called the splinter shield or the splash shield, the part inboard aft of the end of the port side of the plexiglass windshield (or its wooden or metal replacement), seems to be missing...its usually about shoulder-high, or just a tad lower, in its unaltered state.
In Jeff's great CAD view of the cockpit, the port bulkhead can be seen to rise significantly inboard at, and aft, of the post of the windshield's outboard attachment point, standard for 80' Elcos.
I have seen other photos of that part of the bulkhead cut way down or off, but usually on later-war boats.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 6:44am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Drew;
Here is another photo during the same time period,
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/LT%20Lester%20Gamble%20on%20PT%20110%20RON%202%20DEC%201942%20TM%20STEPHEN%20LOTT%20ON%20RIGHT.jpg[/image]
LT. Lester Gamble(at wheel), TM 1/C Stephen Lott(Right, bare chest), and who might be Gamble's Exec. LTjg. Sid Rabekoff(left), behind the torpedo director/sight. On a RON 2 80' ELCO(maybe PT 110 which Gamble used for patrols on a few occasions).
Notice the height of Gamble, standing on back armor plate bench seat.
Another item of interest is the two (what looks like) porcelain insulators fixed to cabin, where boat number usually was. look closer and it looks like a wire is heading off to starboard and the other is going to the radio antenna to port.
I never have seen this before. Any ideas???
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 7:14am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted,
I seem to remember that someone in the past had speculated that the boat in the photo of Gamble in the cockpit might possibly have been the 109, which apparently he also took out on some patrols, and the insulators and wires were part of the primitive and temporary radar setup that boat had early on.
Someone also commented on the seemingly "squared" shape of the radio antenna and it's missing rain guard on that boat in the photo, which resembled the "squared" look and missing rain guard of the antenna of the 109 in the JFK-in-the-cockpit photos, the removed binnacle on the charthouse, and the heat-induced sagging of the painted-over plexiglass windshield.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 7:47am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
That's the armor plate that sticks up to the top of the windshield Drew, the actual bulkhead was the same height as the starboard one on the early 80s. It makes the bulkhead look very low when the armor plate is gone like in this shot of PT 127: [url]http://www.pt127.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Crewman_Bridge2.jpg[/url]. After the armor-less experimental 20mm turret boats seen on the White Plains, they added a higher structure (called armor plate replacement in the PT 163-196 drawings) to the top of the bulkhead that was about the same height as the armor and windshield.
So I think in that shot, the officer is standing on the step with his hand resting on top of the armor and windshield. You can see the top cap of the bulkhead at the base of the windshield. That would make this likely to be one of the earlier boats with armor, somewhere between PT 103-150.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 10:24am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Jeff,
OK, I hear 'ya...but it still looks cut down to me, unless that officer is standing really high on the helm platform or rear cockpit armor step, which I guess he is. Guess its just a matter of my perspective.
I was always uncomfortable with Robert J. Donovan's description in his book "PT 109 - John F. Kennedy in World War II" of that port cockpit armor as being "head-high," when in reality it was closer to shoulder-high, for someone standing on the helm platform or flat on the deck, depending on their height.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 11:48am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Well put Drew. The top of the windshield / armor / bulkhead was about 5' above deck, so if a 6' 6" crewman was standing on a 5" tall helmsman's platform the top of the bulkhead would look a lot shorter than a 5' 6" crewman standing on the early 1 1/2" rubber mat.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 2:08pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Drew;
Its either 110 or 109, as 111(2/1/43) and 112(1/11/43) were destroyed by the time of this photo. Late Feb- March 1943 so you might be right about the radar as I have never seen these things mounted on another boat. PT 109 did its second test period with the SCR-521 radar unit in March 1943.
I wonder if Mr. Larson would have remembered what these two little things were.....
These porcelain looking insulators are also not evident on PT 28 RON 1 which had early SCR-521 aircraft radar (or in Navy Speak : ASE).
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 30, 2015 - 8:52pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted, my gut instinct logic tells me they are windshield washer jets, useful in dusty driving conditions. [:-sunglasses-:]
Here's another mystery object I've wondered about, on the day cabin roof of PT 107:
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/PT_107_MysteryObject.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 8:33am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
That's the Squadron Commander's Cuban cigar![:-laughing-:]
Boy, I know these RON 5 photos off Long Island, N.Y., were staged, but with all these binoculars going I wonder if they can see Rita Hayworth sunbathing on the Rockaway Beach![:-laughing-:]
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 1:01pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Nice view of the rub rail on top of the rear cockpit armor, and a couple of the early Hawley paper/fiber helmet liners.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 3:10pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
I was caught up with the fact that neither the 116 boat or 124 boat in these pictures had an installed mast. Hard to say for sure on the 124 boat. :-)
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 1, 2016 - 6:35am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
What?
Actual photographic evidence of PT 103-class 80' Elco PT boats in the forward area WITHOUT their A-frame masts installed, up, or present?
What?
WHAT?
Somewhere, I can hear the sounds of aggravated, frustrated, Donald Duck-like squawking at this blasphemy...
[:-bigeyes2-:][:-confused2-:][:-laughing-:]
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jan 1, 2016 - 1:36pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
@Drew: LMAO
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jan 2, 2016 - 12:40pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm