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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
PT-6
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Dear Forum, Im researching the "plywood derby" that tested some of the early boats in New London Ct. in July 1941. Im especially interested in PT-6 which was entered by Higgins. I am trying to find out if this was PT 6-1 or PT 6-2? or PT-6 "so called Prime. Perhaps PT-6 prime is another term for PT-6 (2). Anyway does anyone know which boat Higgins sent to this test? I live in CT and am trying to research an image of a PT-6 that was in New London for the trial to see specifically which boat this is. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I posted something like this yesterday but as new to the site, not sure if it made it. thanks, Lee Greenwood
Posted By: Lee G | Posted on: Dec 7, 2015 - 6:47am
Total Posts: 16 | Joined: Dec 6, 2015 - 10:11am
Lee,
Check out this link.
[url]http://www.ptboatforum.com/PTFdocuments/AN_Admin_History_of_PTs-001.pdf[/url]
Gary
Posted By: Gary Paulsen | Posted on: Dec 7, 2015 - 8:28am
Total Posts: 249 | Joined: Feb 14, 2009 - 6:31am
Thanks Gary, I have read this document and find it helpful but Im still a bit confused. If I understand it correctly, PT-6 (1) was built and sold to the British before the 1941 plywood derby trials in New London. I assume therefore that that the PT-6 boat that remained and was entered into the derby was PT-6 (2) which I think was also called "prime" as this was the modified Higgins boat. I believe this boat (2), Prime, was the one that competed in the first Plywood derby in July 1941 as well as another Higgins boat called the "dream boat", number 70. I hope I have this straight. any comments? I am trying to put the Mystic Seaport's Rosenfeld's collection of negatives into their data base. Several of the images are of PT-6 labeled off New London in July 1941 and I am now assuming this was PT-6 (2). thanks for your help. Lee G.
Posted By: Lee G | Posted on: Dec 7, 2015 - 9:23am
Total Posts: 16 | Joined: Dec 6, 2015 - 10:11am
Lee;
Go to www.navsource.org and you will find photos of both PT 6's.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 7, 2015 - 3:48pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Thanks Ted,I have looked at these and assume that PT-6 (2) was the one at the plywood derby in 7-1941. Would you agree? thanks for your time. Lee
Posted By: Lee G | Posted on: Dec 7, 2015 - 4:34pm
Total Posts: 16 | Joined: Dec 6, 2015 - 10:11am
Lee;
Yes then transferred afterwards.
Take care,
Ted
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 8, 2015 - 4:25am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
thanks Ted for your help.Lee
Posted By: Lee G | Posted on: Dec 8, 2015 - 6:44am
Total Posts: 16 | Joined: Dec 6, 2015 - 10:11am
Here's a pix of PT 6 - 2. New York Navy Yard?
I need your photo help Dick!
[red]its fixed[/red]
Posted By: Robert Orrell | Posted on: Dec 13, 2015 - 11:14pm
Total Posts: 80 | Joined: Jul 2, 2008 - 6:18am
Sorry gentleman I can't help with the location of this photo. The images I am working with of PT -6 are of the boat at New London , CT, July 41 during the first plywood derby. Lee G
Posted By: Lee G | Posted on: Dec 19, 2015 - 10:37am
Total Posts: 16 | Joined: Dec 6, 2015 - 10:11am
Hi Lee,
I assume you have all the test data and reports from the both Plywood Derby sessions? I know that second PT 6 was only in the first Derby with Higgins pushing the brand new PT 70 design. From what I've been able to find out, the second session in Aug 41 has lots of holes in the official BuShips' data records with little of the personal observations from the first.
I've been able to gather info from the National Archives, Huckins Yachts, Elco records at the Sub Museum in CT, and PT Boat,org in Memphis. I especially enjoy reading about the back stories which completely change the perspective on the standard quoted PT Boat history.
The redesign of all the boats and competitive contract bidding directly following are also a very interesting and often entertaining read.
Andy
Westerly, RI
Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Dec 21, 2015 - 12:08pm
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm
Thought I'd share some more Higgins Plywood Derby info I figured out after reviewing material from the National Archives. I've identified the Higgins 70' British boat as MRB-8, which I believe corresponds to the RN MGB-102. This has been one of the loose ends in my Plywood Derby research and it was nice to finally confirm, through official records, the actual boat that participated in this historic event.
Cheers,
Andy
Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Mar 16, 2016 - 1:10pm
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm
Andy, I'd be interested in seeing whatever you found on the 70' Higgins boats.
Al
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 16, 2016 - 5:12pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Info on the MRBs is pretty light. The U of New Orleans has several plans, but only one, that I found, showing a sample of the transverse framing. You can find them in the undated Higgins section of the library without the BuShips numbers.
These boats had the less powerful (900 hp) Hall-Scott engines Supercharged engines.
By looking at the few photos of the earlier batch MRB-2, it looks like the overall hull was more like the later 76' PT-70. This is different from the other 70' Higgins (Hellcat) which has a lineage more from PT-6 Prime and PT-71 class.
Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Mar 17, 2016 - 7:50am
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm
Thanks to responses by Jerry and Al, I can state that I was incorrect on the MRBs having a hull closer to PT-70. Definite lineage with PT-6 Prime. As I've said before A little bit of knowledge can be a very entertaining thing....
Anyway, in addition to the 13 MRBs that were originally ordered by the Finns but then became MGBs with the Royal Navy, there were another 8 that were ordered by the Dutch as Anti-Submarine Boats, or what the Dutch designated as OJRs (1-8). These are easily identified by the four large ventilator aft and the superstructure similar to the original PT-71 configuration. They also had huge single digit numbers painted on the bow. The OJRs had only two shafts but with two Kermath engines per shaft (one forward of the other, facing each other and sharing a transmission). I had read somewhere about this engine configuration and had always wondered what boats they were referring to. These boats had all kinds of issues and the first six were all lost almost immediately (scuttlings and fires) with the fall of the Dutch East Indies in early 1942. OJR 1 and 4 were raised by the Japanese and became part of the Japanese Imperial Navy ( Cha 101 and Cha 72), probably the only Higgins so employed, and were later sunk by USAAF B-24s (13th AF) in April 1945. OJR7 and 8 were diverted to the Dutch West Indies and re-designated H7 and H8. They were later re-engined with two Packards.
So it looks like we can unofficially add another twenty one PT/PTCs to the Higgins total war production.
Andy
Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Mar 18, 2016 - 7:17pm
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm
