The PT Boat Forum
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi
» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf
» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102
» Topic:
Boot Topping
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=3848
For those Elco's that had red waterlines, did they also have a black boot topping?
Thanks!!
Rick Abramson
Posted By: Rick Abramson | Posted on: Jun 19, 2015 - 6:34am
Total Posts: 22 | Joined: Apr 21, 2015 - 4:30am
Don't think so...
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jun 20, 2015 - 1:21pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Unfortunately, "don't think so" is like a definite maybe. . .LOL
Rick Abramson
Posted By: Rick Abramson | Posted on: Jun 21, 2015 - 4:34am
Total Posts: 22 | Joined: Apr 21, 2015 - 4:30am
Rick,
I checked through almost all my photos and only found boot toppings on the pre-war experimental PTs with the light gray hulls and on the construction photos of the first batch of Higgins with the original superstructure. Everything else I have shows just the red.
Cheers,
Andy
Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Jun 21, 2015 - 6:28am
Total Posts: 260 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm
Hi,
I think what you may see as resembling boot topping is just grime and algae along the waterline.
Best Regards,
Stu.
Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Jun 21, 2015 - 7:16am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am
What Stu says......
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 21, 2015 - 2:26pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Ditto.
Andy
Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Jun 21, 2015 - 2:35pm
Total Posts: 260 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm
Andy, Stu and Will:
You guys may have a point; it might just be algae and sludge along the waterline.
Thanks!!!
Rick
Rick Abramson
Posted By: Rick Abramson | Posted on: Jun 21, 2015 - 7:13pm
Total Posts: 22 | Joined: Apr 21, 2015 - 4:30am
Take a look at Stu's Elco model build. He got it right.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 21, 2015 - 8:56pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
This was my attempt at the waterline:
[image]http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/ducati650/PT495/DSCF0015.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/ducati650/PT495/DSCF0020-1.jpg[/image]
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jun 22, 2015 - 1:05pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Rick;
here is a good shot of PT 731, this shows it good. however, in the waters around New York and Bayonne, I would think green algae and black oil would be the way to go.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT%20731%20stern%20view.png[/image]
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jun 22, 2015 - 2:50pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
I'm trying to remember where I saw it. I'm sure somebody here will remember. It was a video of the Elco factory painting one of the boats. After painting the hull bottom red a worker walked down the side of the boat holding a big sheet of cardboard or something similar. He held the sheet up to the side of the boat and a guy with a paint gun shot the finish color. The sheet acting as a mask. The worker took a few steps and the painter shot the next couple of feet and so on until they had walked the length of the boat. They didn't mask off perfectly level lines, although I think the worker was pretty consistent in the height he held the masking sheet.
As modelers we're so careful painting and masking perfect water lines and boot straps. If I'm true to the model I should have a little scale figure holding a piece of card stock and scoot him along the side of the model until I have my maybe not so perfect water line.
I would love to know how this was done in the field. Do any of our vets remember how they painted perfect water lines on their boats?
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 27, 2015 - 8:44pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Dave: I helped paint the bottom of PT242 twice while I was aboard. Once in Rendova and second time in Green Island. The first time in Rendova was the first time the bottom had been painted since the Higgins plant in New Orleans. We just free handed the line with a paint brush. We didn't even use masking tape. I don't know how the original line was put on at Higgins.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Jun 28, 2015 - 2:04pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Thanks CJ.
That's great information to know.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 28, 2015 - 9:58pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Ted, Dave:
Great info. . .thanks!!
Looking at the photo that Ted posted, that "black" line looks almost too even to be anything other than a boot topping; but then. . .
I built the Revell PT-109 and temporarily omitted any boot topping due to the uncertainty if she actually had it.
I also built another as PT-117 in the two-tone gray; once again, no boot topping.
Once again guys, thanks for taking the time for your help. . .much appreciated!!
Rick
Rick Abramson
Posted By: Rick Abramson | Posted on: Jun 29, 2015 - 4:11am
Total Posts: 22 | Joined: Apr 21, 2015 - 4:30am
We've come to learn with these little boats that nothing comes as a surprise. Who knows, maybe on that particular boat they did play with the paint a little. It's a very late war boat with unusual markings for the time and torpedo tubes. Also a 20mm mount on the stern? Note that the sailors in the foreground are probably not US. Who knows what the story is behind this scene and boat. But I've never seen an example (yet) of one of these boats with a proper boot toping. This may be the exception.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 29, 2015 - 5:23am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Do the torpedo tubes look like the pneumatic type used on the boats going to Russia to anybody else but me? Some of the uniforms looked Russian to me, also.
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jun 29, 2015 - 5:48am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Yeah, I think that is one of the lend-lease boats, which would explain the tubes.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 29, 2015 - 8:41am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
I'm pretty sure the video Dave remembers of the Elco plant workers masking the waterline on an 80-footer is from "Giant Killers."
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jun 29, 2015 - 11:07am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
As discussed in earlier posts: Here is Frankie's copy of the “Paint Instruction” for Elco boats as instructed in the MTBSTC RTU MANUAL1944 (painting section only).
Click on the link below to view .PDF document:
PT Boat Painting SM.pdf
Click below to view the older PT Painting discussion posts:
Earlier Post - Frank's MTBSTC RTU Manual Excerts
Here is a Higgins Document by Dave Buck which outlines painting procedures for PT 625-660:
PT 625-660_Specifiction of Construction.pdf
None of these painting instruction include any reference to Boot Top on PT’s.
Dick . . .
Richard J. Washichek
Moderator
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jun 29, 2015 - 1:47pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Thanks Dave, it's good to know my shaky water lines are scale.
Thanks Dick. Interesting spelling of Coperoyd in the manual, "Copperyod". As far as I can tell from old ads and Google "Coperoyd" is correct.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jun 30, 2015 - 6:47am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Thanks, Richard...
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 30, 2015 - 10:09am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Jeff,
When I helped my Dad scrape and paint the bottoms of our work boats when we hauled them out of the water back in the '60's and 70's, I'm pretty sure the red bottom paint we used was spelled "Copperoyd," due (so Dad said), to the copper content in the paint, which was supposed to retard the marine growth on the hull.
We always pronounced it "copper-oid," and not "cope-er-oid," which I think it would have been, if it had been spelled "Coperoyd." (?)
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jun 30, 2015 - 12:55pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Drew and All;
It was called Coperoyd, which was the trademarked name, see it here, this was one of ELCO's supplier's.
[url]https://books.google.com/books?id=d5bogUmY2LAC&pg=PA316&lpg=PA316&dq=1940+pettit+paint+company&source=bl&ots=RFkGUB-yzE&sig=q9iUejUIWaYaL0xL7e7dWtuCqWs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oxCTVeOLEMvpsAX0v6jYCQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=1940%20pettit%20paint%20company&f=false[/url]
and also here is an explanation:
[url]https://books.google.com/books?id=2hXr_lhBzaMC&pg=PA256&dq=Coperoyd+is+made+by+the+Metallic+Coatings+Corporation+of+New+York,&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gBOTVd2gJYGesAXZu5OoCg&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Coperoyd%20is%20made%20by%20the%20Metallic%20Coatings%20Corporation%20of%20New%20York%2C&f=false[/url]
I too have seen it spelt both ways, I wonder if "Copperoyd" was the English equivalent, you know how they have to put their spin on things(ie: Grey, aeroplane, aerofoil, anticlockwise, articulated lorry, bonnet and boot, dual carriageway, holiday, ale, petrol, silencer, windscreen, etc.)
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jun 30, 2015 - 3:22pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Yes Ted it can be confusing. Like when that Brit here on holiday walked into a redneck bar and loudly proclaimed that he was there to buy some fags and get pissed.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jun 30, 2015 - 3:42pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am