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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: Throttle Push Rods
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Al, Jeff,

Would either of you two gents have a drawing that shows the Throttle push rods, I am interested in the ends were they would have changed direction up near the cockpit.

Ta

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 2:19am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Check out the Elco Parts catalog David, starting on page 153. The image on page 179 shows the cover inside the turret. I haven't run across a drawing for this piece so I'm unsure if it is the same cover on all boats. Let me know if the catalog doesn't have enough detail for you, I can dig through the drawings.

For anyone reading that is not aware of the catalog, Dick has made it available on the Free PT Documents page: [url]http://www.ptboatforum.com/PT_Boat_Documents.html[/url].




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 5:43am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



DAVID I have photos of all the (HIGGINS) parts on my home computer, I will post later.

 photo THROTELS.jpg

 photo THRODELSENGINEROOM.jpg

The part you are looking for is similar to these but where the handles are there is a clevis pin and rod that goes up to the throttle's and the cable goes around the shiv.

 photo DSC_0347.jpg

 photo DSC_0346.jpg

 photo DSC_0342.jpg

 photo DSC_0267.jpg





Posted By: RANDY SMITH | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 6:17am
Total Posts: 182 | Joined: Jul 16, 2012 - 7:16pm



ELCO, HIGGINS, or HUCKINS?

Al



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 7:18am
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Definitely not Elco.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 9:38am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Cool Randy, man what a ton of work you guys are doing but they look great. Is that the 305s?

Word Al, guilty of assumption. I'm going to go flagellate myself for a while. (*!*)




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 11:31am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



The green rods come from the throttles hook to the arms and you can see the cables going through the bulkhead. the second two are in the officer quarters and engine room.



Posted By: RANDY SMITH | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 3:02pm
Total Posts: 182 | Joined: Jul 16, 2012 - 7:16pm



Here are the photos from the ELCO Parts Manual:

[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/rods_0004_zpsa07d66ad.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/rods_0002_zps0fd48579.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/rods_0003_zps56ac1eb9.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/rods_0001_zps763ae932.jpg[/image]

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 4:55pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Randy,
It appears the Elco boats did not use the aircraft style cable and pulley system that is used on the Higgins. It looks like they used solid push rods. Weird right?

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Oct 14, 2014 - 9:43pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Hi,
In one way It's actually a much better engineering solution as there is very little lost in translating the relatively small throttle lever movement over such a long run. Difficult to repair if damaged though, I would think.

Best Regards,
Stu.






Posted By: Stuart Hurley | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 12:26am
Total Posts: 255 | Joined: Mar 19, 2013 - 3:32am



It was actually a mix of push rods and torque tubes on the Elcos Jerry, I find it kind of weird too. At the point David is asking about, the long push rods on deck moved arms on nested torque tubes.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 1:35am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Hi Jeff,
I am not really sure exactly what is a "torque tube"? Does it contain cables and pulleys? It does not appear to have any cables or pulleys as far as I can tell from the Parts Diagram. The Higgins setup has a large amount of cables and pulleys and i was just pointing that out to Randy. I still dont know what a "torque tube" looks like!
Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 2:40am
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Rather than push, they rotated. They had arms on the end to transfer movement, like a rudder. For the 3 engines there were gradually larger tubes that fit into each other, with 3 arms on each end. I'll check out the drawings to see if there's a good example showing the setup.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 6:00am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



JERRY,
A torque tube is a tube that is turned instead of push pull, like our steering shaft. Did you guys use Teleflex or the Higgins system.



Posted By: RANDY SMITH | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 6:01am
Total Posts: 182 | Joined: Jul 16, 2012 - 7:16pm



Hey Randy,
Yeah we didnt have the Higgins system parts available and just used teleflex. It is on our "to do" list to fix to original someday. By the way yours looks fantastic!
Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 7:13am
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Here's an image of the torque tubes Jerry, this drawing and the other 2 are courtesy of Dick Washichek:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/Elco_Dwg_Throttle_Torque_Tubes.jpg[/image]

David, I found this one showing the layout:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/Elco_Dwg_Throttle_Bridge_565_612.jpg[/image]

I got a kick out of this part that covers from PT 20 on (with 14 mods a number of which were just informational) It might be a record for most boats covered:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/Elco_Dwg_Throttle_Toggle_Joint_PT20_On.jpg[/image]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 1:40pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Wow,
Good explanation! The torque tubes are the key to understanding how the system works! Thanks for the awesome diagram. I was noticing that it is labeled in several places "Ford torque tube" I wonder is this an abbreviation of "forward" or did it have something to do with Ford Motor Company? I cant spot any apostrophe (as in the abbreviation F'ord) that could stand for the word Forward. Does anybody know if Ford Motor Company ever worked with Elco? Or is this more related to a common name for a standard item, like say a "Ford Wrench"? Sorry for all the questions, but I am a Ford guy. Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Oct 15, 2014 - 7:38pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Thanks Jerry. It's actually short for forward. I think they also use the clearer "fwd" on drawings too... Maybe the draftsman was a Ford fan too! I was in my earlier days, I had a Maverick with a hot 302 and a 73 Mach 1. The little Maverick was quite a surprise for some at red lights.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 3:45am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Jerry,
A Ford Model A drive shaft was called a torque tube. It was like an axel that ran through a tube that was bolted to the rear end and gearbox.



Posted By: RANDY SMITH | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 5:30am
Total Posts: 182 | Joined: Jul 16, 2012 - 7:16pm



Thanks to all who replied,

Al sorry the other night I was adding2+2 and getting 3 or 5 and not picking up that it was time to call it quits for the night!
Elco 103-196 series.

Randy great photos they show that the effort put in by the people there is fantastic thankyou, also shows how the two companies used two different ways to overcome the same problem.

Drew ? how did you work that out. ( but I have moments like that so don't take it the wrong way ok.)

Al thanks for the pages from Parts Manual I did follow Jeff D. advice and downloaded your one from the site, still no luck.

Jerry and Stuart thanks also.

Jeff, Dicks drawing shows that there is still more to be done,
unfortunately the part I am looking for has not yet surfaced (sic).

Posting a photo would drive me insane so I will try to describe what I am looking for, be aware this does come from a PT Boat and has been underwater for around 70 years (found a second item so I will add that too)

First item appears as a 2'- 4' long or longer piece of pipe or solid rod around 2"diameter and has a 3" "square" bracket welded on the end, this bracket is opened ended on two sides therefore an L shape not a U. The L is strengthened with a 3"square plate on each side which have a 45 degree cut starting around 1/2-3/4"from the corner at the L, no holes can be seen on the pipe/rod or bracket. This item is in very good condition for where it is and for how long it has been underwater, so maybe, Stainless Steal , Brass (but I think not) or maybe Monel (again maybe not), very little corrosion very little marine growth. The pipe/rod appears a little bent but the bracket on the end is in pristine condition.

Second item appears to be a 11/2"- 2" pipe that is around 3'long and has a very tight square not rounded U bend at one end, the interesting thing about this bend is that it appears to be made by putting two pipe corners together with a very small joiner between the two(rather than bending the pipe), therefore the section of pipe that returns is only 2" or less away from the other pipe, the return is only around 4" long again this item is in very good condition. The end of the long section of pipe appears to have small holes drilled around it for a length of say 6",this may just be the area becoming blurry at that point but pipe external does appear to change at this point. No damage to this item can be seen.

If someone has any idea what they are then with luck I will then know approx. where on the Boat they came from and that's what I'm after.

Thanks in advance,

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 6:26am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



If you send me the images I can post them for you David.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 12:50pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Jeff thanks, I am trying to track down images that are a lot clearer than the shockingly grainy ones I have at the moment. Will send them if I do.( no that's not a dig at Day, Ha,)

Ta,

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 3:17pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Whoops Jeff,
should have asked if you know if they used Stainless Steal rod/tube for the hand rail on the day room or something else particularly on the early Boats of the 103 series, also what were the uprights for same made/cast from and were they hollow or maybe had a small locating pin under the base?

Ta,

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 3:36pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Three pages on throttle push-rods. Is this a great site, or what?

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 4:37pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Hi Will - - - Ummm, making a little fun of [b]OUR[/b] '[:-laughing-:]' message board - - - are we now?

Dick . . .



Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 5:41pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm




be aware this does come from a PT Boat and has been underwater for around 70 years (found a second item so I will add that too)
D.buck


David,

How about a little background on the finding/acquisition of these items, please? How do you know that they are from a PT? I'm intrigued...[:-grin-:]

Al



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 5:58pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



What's next, the type of records they played below decks, or maybe how many sheets of poop paper did each crew member get, no wait I have it, was the push rods green or gray, Good Lord. Just having fun relax.............................



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 7:13pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Dick let me introduce "Will Count the Count Day" fresh from with his last engagement on "Sesame Street" and well known for surprise appearances on "The Muppet Show". One must understand what an Honor it is to have a true celebrity in our mist!!!

I keep this up Frank will never get that boat, poo paper or not!

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 7:29pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



AAH just doing a little fishing AL, I seem to remember the last time I went fishing I caught a page or two on the Higgins Boat.

All will be revealed as and when!

Thanks for your help,

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 7:52pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Will you trouble maker I hope your happy.........



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Oct 16, 2014 - 9:47pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Hey, Will was just expressing his delight at the vast 5 gallon chum bucket of PT knowledge available here.

David, they were brass on PT 103-138 before switching to wood. I'm not sure about the end ones on the chart house roof, the drawings list them as "composite". No locating pin on any of them.

Frank, the push rods were aluminum alloy colored.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 3:17am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



What's that old saying,

Frank will ask and so shall he receive.

Or something like that.

Thanks Jeff.

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 4:58am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Hey, guys....that was meant as a compliment. Damned few groups have the combined interest and knowledge to contribute to the subject that we do. Add to that the give-and-take (for the most part good-natured) that goes on here and you have something we can all be proud of.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 6:48am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Well said Will, I agree. I LOVE YOU GUYS!!! <3

ugh, saying that made me barf in my mouth a little... I'm going to go do something manly.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 7:18am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am




Nice recovery Will . . . Only you can do it so gracefully - '[:-coolhairsmoke-:]'



Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 7:33am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



[:-good-:]

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 9:49am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



[:-good-:]

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 9:49am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Ahh, Richard.....Ever the diplomat [:-cup-:]

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 17, 2014 - 11:01am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm