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Ľ Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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Ľ Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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Ľ Topic: HIGGINS TRAIN
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I was talking to Stan this evening about doing a Higgins PT Boat loaded onto a flat bed, which is how they were taken from the factory to the water. I have the 1:35 boat ( PT-302) bit Stan would have to scratch the flat car. I would appreciate if anyone has any photos of this from Higgins. Of all the ones I have I do not have the boat on a flat car.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 20, 2014 - 9:14pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Frank;
Sorry, I don't have any photos but this is going to be a VERY interesting project, trains and PT Boats, it doesn't get any better than that!
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 7:02am
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



I think it will be awesome, something I always wanted to do as Higgins was the only boat builder to use flat car trains. Stan said he may have to build the train bed from photos as no flat bed cars come in 1:35 scale.




Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 7:45am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Pretty cool idea Frank. Is that the 1/35 scale boat Bob built for your exhibit. Would love to see some photos of her in your collection. Also, how is the PT - LCVP transfer diorama coming along? Would love some photos of that as well.



Posted By: Roy Forbes | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 8:14am
Total Posts: 351 | Joined: Sep 5, 2012 - 4:57pm



Bob is still working on PT-302, I have no new photos to date. Stan has just started working again on the PT-108/LCVP project, as he was sidelined with Surgery ( nothing major) and he had a few house projects he had to get done this summer. I think I might use PT-302 for the flat car project, although not 100% sure. There is PT-61 project that needs to get done before Flat car project. I will be happy to post some photos Roy, as soon as more work has proceeded on both of these projects. I know Bob had plenty of work to do, as he moved to a new home, and it is pretty hot where he lives, and the workshop he does the work in has no AC, so he does things at night. I suspect he will get 302 done in the very near future. My biggest thing is trying to locate a few photos of the boats on a flat car, which i can't seem to find...............



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 8:34am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Hi Frank,

Page 124 of the Andrew Jackson Higgins book by Jerry Strahan has a photo of two 50' flats pulling a boat from the plant. The PT is mounted on a wood frame on the trailing car with the boat overhanging at both ends.

The photo comes from the Eisenhower Center, University of New Orleans. Not a high quality reprint, but the Flat looks like a normal Southern RR to my old tired eyes.

Andy



Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 1:11pm
Total Posts: 214 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm



Andy thank you, that is perhaps the best one I have seen to date, looks as though they had the boat on one car ( like you mentioned) with the bow hanging over onto the next car. I don't want to use two cars, because at 1:35 scale it could get too long. Thanks so much for the heads up. I am still going to keep a lookout for better shots.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 1:56pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Images from Book:


[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Higgin_on_RailsCar-001.jpg[/IMaGe]


[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Higgins_RailCars_Crane-001.jpg[/IMaGe]




Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 2:13pm
Total Posts: 918 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Trains and PTs together is a great combo! I'm still looking for photos of the Cuban narrow gauge boxcars (and engines) that carried the 55 gal drums of fuel down to the boats at Portland Bite, during their treks down to Panama.

Andy



Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 3:02pm
Total Posts: 214 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm



It appears that the boat on the rail car is something other than a standard 78' Higgins. If you look at the position of the gun tubs they are much further aft than even the 450 on class Higgins. Perhaps they are of the same class as the boats outlined in the next picture. Look how far aft the gun tubs are on those boats.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 4:06pm
Total Posts: 145 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm



Frank,

There's a picture of PT-201 on a 52 foot flat car on page 48 of PT Boats In Action (2010) by David Doyle. The picture is shown at this link although it's not as good quality as in the book.

http://northbaylines.blogspot.com/2012/09/wartime-flat-car-loads-update_14.html

At the link above it states that it's a Southern Pacific F-50-14 class car with 16 stake pockets, straight side sills and Columbia steel trucks built by the SP in 1937. (Those railroad guys get pretty detail oriented - not like anyone we know!) The framework the boat is sitting on looks very similar, if not identical to, the one in the picture Dick posted above. I'd think that any 50 or 52 foot flat car of the period would work, those having sufficient weight capacity for a PT boat. Using idler cars on either end of a load too long for the flat car is common practice.

Randy McC
Lakewood, Colorado



Posted By: Randy McConnell | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 7:52pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Mar 16, 2013 - 7:42pm



The boat on the rail car is one of the first group of 78' boats (PT71-84) as originally built. Here's PT209 on a railcar. [image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/02tracyw_zpsd71604b3.jpg[/image]

The three boats in the lower photo are three of the 70' boats originally ordered by Finland but transferred to the Royal Netherlands Navy. They are OJR-6, H-7, and H-8. Here's a closeup taken at a somewhat different time, as OJR-6 is not visible . [image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/H7H8atHiggins_DSC00022_zps71e5ef04.jpg[/image]

H-8 [image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/RNNHIGGINS005.jpg[/image]

OJR-4 being loaded for shipment.[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/ojr4a.jpg[/image]

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 8:01pm
Total Posts: 894 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Frank;
The website that Randy posted is the same blog site I e-mailed you about, This is a great shot that Randy found:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT201RON15onSouthernPacficflat79571.jpg[/image]
PT 201 RON 15 in Southern Pacific Flat car 79571.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 21, 2014 - 8:27pm
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



I had forgotten that the SP was heavily into that part of the world. Testament to the strength of those cars. This would all make for an unusual switching layout in O scale (once there's a 1/48 scale Higgins model available).

Andy



Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Jul 22, 2014 - 5:11am
Total Posts: 214 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm



Al,

Sorry for the rabbit hole, but I have to ask... I'm just starting to get into the 70' Higgins background. Are those 70' FIN/NLD the same basic design as the 70' MTB built for the UK (MGB 100 class), as well as the same type that participated in the Plywood Derby? Been trying to find out which UK boat actually participated in those trials. Just spent a week at the Archives in DC and nothing popped out at me. The superstructure looks different but close to the boat in New London.

Cheers,
Andy




Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Jul 22, 2014 - 5:26am
Total Posts: 214 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm



Thanks so much guys for the great photo's. Thanks Dick for clearing up that photo shot. Your right Andy, I wish there was a Higgins Kit I could use, I have decided not to use PT-302, as most of the photos provided show the boats in a not completed form. I think putting a completed PT-302 on a rail car would not look good. In any event Stan would have to scratch the Higgins boat. I am still leaning towards 1:35 scale at this point. Thanks Ted for the links you sent to me they were helpful.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 22, 2014 - 6:26am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Frank;
If your still interested in this idea for a diorama, I suggest you use the photos that Al and I posted, and make a RON 15 boat(wasn't PT 216 or 210, Hal Nugent's two boats). just use a Dumas kit (one is on ebay now, eBay item number:161373910455) , that way its complete enough to look incomplete(if you know what I mean), and it is light enough to not be a real hassle, only the rail car would be the real work for Stan. Here you have photographic evidence that at least this RON's boats were put on rail cars. I am not too sure if any others were, until more photos arise.
Take car,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 22, 2014 - 8:19am
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



I would love to see a photo of a whole train carrying an entire squadron of Higgins PT Boats! Or a diorama of the same subject.

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Jul 22, 2014 - 8:48am
Total Posts: 1207 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Al corrected me, I mistakenly in hast identified the three boats in my second photo of my earlier posts as early 78í Higgns boats. To correct the error I have shown in the first two photos below the very early Higgins 78í boat configurations, which were changed to the more familiar and accepted configuration, as shown in the last two photos. Thanks Al.

The photos below are linked from Gene Kirkland's PT-King website
( [url]http://pt-king.gdinc.com/PThigginsfactory.html[/url] ).
Shown are 2 early configuration photos before Navy acceptance (PT 74 & PT 80), then 2 photos of the actual accepted boat configurations (PT 87 & PT 81) :


[image]http://pt-king.gdinc.com/images/higgins2.jpg[/image]



[image]http://pt-king.gdinc.com/images/higgins.jpg[/image]



[image]http://pt-king.gdinc.com/images/higgins4.jpg[/image]



[image]http://pt-king.gdinc.com/images/photo120.jpg[/image]





Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jul 22, 2014 - 10:46am
Total Posts: 918 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Thanks Ted, although I do have a burning question, why were these boats put on flat cars in an incomplete state. Dick posted a photo that shows a Higgins by the waters edge, also incomplete, and placed there by a crane in the photo. I am a bit confused as to the Higgins mode of assembly.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 22, 2014 - 8:18pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Frank;
From all the photos I have seen, around the Higgins plant, it seems link they worked by the "there is more room out in the water" concept.
but that's just my idea.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 7:06am
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



A question for the group regarding the early Higgins configuration. Did any see service that way or were all modified before the Navy's acceptance? Also, what was the reason, weight reduction, or some other cause? Looks like the starboard 50 cal tub is a bit farther forward than the port one. Is the reasoning here to give both tubs a crack at direct broadsides targets?

Mike

Posted By: Michael Vorrasi | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 9:57am
Total Posts: 72 | Joined: Jul 1, 2013 - 11:46am



I don't know Ted, I mean I can tell just how Elco ran their assembly of the boats, but it seems like so much work to Crane the boats onto trains for another stage of assembly, where did they go once they were on the trains, I wouldn't think that they would be doing so much topside work out in the Weather, but in a photo that Al posted, you can clearly see many boats in the water that clearly need assembly for completion.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 11:31am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am




By reviewing all the Higgins photos on Geneís site and published photos in Frankís first and Frank Johnsonís books, it becomes easy to see that the boats are being built in some type industrial building. Various photos from Geneís site show at the very least boats 74 through 86 roughly, being built indoors to the early configuration. Additional photos in Johnsonís book shows PT 71 and 72 in water with this early configuration and stated to be assigned to and photo taken at Melville (Ron 4). We also know that the Navy/BuShips requested changes to this early configuration by removal of weight, design changes and equipment rearrangment, resulting in the earlier boats to be reconfigured in the more familiar look as we know Higgins boats to be.

With the above in mind it would make plain sense the boats completed and already launched be hoisted on shore locally and modified as requested. This would make more sense, time and logistically, then transporting the early configured boats back by rail car to one of Higgins plant's building PTís (Higgins had seven plants). Add to this, the actual plants already had boats (of either configuration) in production and it would be hard to find manufacturing slips to be place in. In the photo of PT 87 on shore, you can see two other boats to the far left, floating, without turrets (possibly already stripped of discontinued components) and maybe waiting their turn for landing.

On Alís photo, I see no work being done on any of the boats. I do see what appears to be possibly a naval officer near the stern of CG-7206, but no workers. I don't believe weather in New Orleans would be a real issue, plus most boats/ships are probably built or worked on in the weather. The Higgins were all buttoned up by the time they were launched, then returned/ordered to be reworked.

As to which boats were or werenít reconfigured, is rather hard to determine. With a description in Frank Johnson'sí book of PT 71 & 72 already assigned to Melville in their early configuration and the mention the two boats were transferred from Ron 4 to a specially assembled squadron Ron 2(2) Commanded by John Bulkeley. The squadron was formed with these two boats along with PT 199 and became the smallest squadron assembled and was assigned to the O.S.S. for English Channel duty. My assumption is these boats remained unchanged. As to other boats reconfigured, Gene (on his website) comments ďThe necessity for alterations meant that Squadron Thirteen's first six boats did not leave New Orleans for the first leg of their Aleutian adventure until November 30, 1942, and the second six did not leave until December 17.Ē Suggesting PTís 73 through 84 were reconfigured. We also see in photos PT 87 and 88 reconfigured.

All of this remains a WAG (wild ass guess) since Iín not aware of any published information regarding any of these above situations. If anyone has any documents pertaining to these subjects other than the photos reviewed, please share.

As reference to photos please visit Geneís site at: [url]http://pt-king.gdinc.com/PThigginsfactory.html[/url]




Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 2:03pm
Total Posts: 918 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Frank and Dick;
Taking all that into consideration, what I meant was, when the boats got to a certain point, say 95% complete they were p[laced into the water for final outfitting(ie; weapons installation, radar, electronics suite, etc.) I sure appears in the few photos we have that space was at a minimum, and all this while LCVP/LCPL construction was also going on, it must have been a very crowded place. I would like to see aerial photos of the entire factory complex. I wonder if it was as large as ELCO was. One would think it should be larger, since land at the time was cheaper in the south, but with the few photos I have seen, it appears to be the contrary.
Take care,
TED
P.S. I am also employing the WAG method when I come to the ideas above.[:-laughing-:]
P.P.S. Dick I too have seen the photos on Gene's website, and they were on my mind when I wrote Frank's reply, I agree with all you posted,


Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 3:18pm
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Dick that is a great WAG let me tell you, we know that Elco sent boats from the factory to Fife's Shipyard for installation of armament and other Navy Specs, maybe, just maybe, the HIGGINS boats, with engines installed, were sent by rail to St. John Bayou , and placed into the water for Engine trails then, as Dick suggest's put back on rail cars for more assembly work. Ted, I will send you a few over-head shots of HIGGINS.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 4:06pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am




Ted . . .

Your completely right about additional work after the machinery, hull and deck is completed as well as the super structure in place. Additional material and armament installation could be easily done in the water or make-shift dry dock.

With the reconfiguration of the early dozen or so boats requiring many design item changes, at the very least the upper structures completely remodeled as well as removal of the aft sampson post, removal of aft hatch, and the hatch just forward of the aft hatch moved forward. All this and maybe more would be a little more involved and would require some type of cradled work place such as the crane's landing.

This was all taking place approximately in the summer of '42, and probably taxing what little facilities existed by then. Keep in mind Higgins was a one building - fifty employee company that had to expand to seven plants and over 20,000 employee at the height of the war. However by viewing Gene's photos Higgins at that time already had some gigantic buildings.




Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 4:38pm
Total Posts: 918 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



To get a feeling for the actual area around the Higgins plant, go here on Google Earth

30 00 37.48 N 90 01 45.64 W

This will put you right on the roof of the existing main building.

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 7:53pm
Total Posts: 894 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Al;
Nice, I see the blue gray cranes are off in a junk/scrap area a little further down the cut. looking at Google Earth, it sure looks like they used all the area between both bridges. the "path" where the tracks were is still visible too. I wonder if they used both sides of the cut, it certainly looks like they did. sure wish we could find a 1944-45 aerial photo of the plant.
Thanks.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 8:33pm
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Frank;
I was surfing around and found some photos of the Higgins plant you posted, the 78' Higgins in the photos is on a railway flat car.
your post is: HIGGINS BOATS DEC 27, 2008.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 10:03pm
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Hi,
I think Jerry Strahans bio of Andrew Jackson Higgins might cover this subject. I know that Higgins had several plants in different locations, starting with the City Park Plant, and then the larger one on the Industrial Canal and or Metarie. I remember reading something about the City of New Orleans allowing Higgins to temporarily move the boats across a graveyard adjacent to the factory since things were so crowded and tight around the City Park Plant. They had so many boats waiting to be launched they ran out of room on the factory grounds. I am pretty sure they transported the boats over to the "fitting out pier" at the Industrial Canal Plant at first by flatbed trucks (see the photo of PT6 below) and then by rail. There was simply not enough room to do the fitting out at the City Park Plant. They used a big crane over at Industrial Canal to pick the boats up from the railcars and place them into the water. Once things got more organized, the Industrial Canal Plant had the production line come out right next to the big crane that would simply pick the boats up and place them into the canal for completion between launching and commissioning. You can see a similar arrangement at Elco, where they had a "Fitting Out Basin" that was used to install the final armaments and equipment between when the boat was launched and completed for commissioning.
If you read the telephone transcripts you can see that Higgins was set to produce 12 boats/month at City Park (downstairs) and 8 LCVP/day upstairs. Then at Industrial Canal he was set to produce 14-16 PT Boats per month as of Sept 1942. Truly amazing industrial output!

Here are some pics of the Higgins facilities

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/PT6Trailered.jpg[/image]

Bayou St Johns mostly LCVP's and LCM's
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/Industcanal_Aerial.jpg[/image]

1000th LCM
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/LCM1000.jpg[/image]

7000th LCVP
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/LCVP7000.jpg[/image]

City Park front office
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/Citypark.jpg[/image]

City Park from Higgins Clinic across street
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/CityParkfromHigginsclinicJuly1942.jpg[/image]

Industrial Canal aerial view note big crane
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/Higgins_aerial.jpg[/image]

Industrial Canal Plant crane launching PT82-PT85 on &Sept42 during Labor Day Rally and Ceremonies
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/PT828384andPT85LaborDayLaunch7Sept42HigginsCrane.jpg[/image]

Boat hull leaving Industrial canal ready for launching by big crane
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/Higgins78cradle.jpg[/image]

Two Higgins Industrial Canal Production Line output by big crane
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/HigginsFactory.jpg[/image]

Higgins phonecon transcript to CDR Rawlings pg1
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/HigginslettertoRawlings25Nov41.jpg[/image]

Phone con transcript pg2
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/Higginsrawlingsphone16Jun42pg1.jpg[/image]

Phonecon transcript pg 3
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/Higginsrawlingsphone16Jun42pg2.jpg[/image]

Phonecon transcript pg 4
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20G%20PT658/Higginsrawlingsphone16Jun42pg3.jpg[/image]



Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Jul 23, 2014 - 10:08pm
Total Posts: 1207 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Sorry to blow your margins out....

PT-201


PT-209 (Al's posted this one before)


Tracy White
Researcher@Large

Posted By: Tracy White | Posted on: Jul 24, 2014 - 12:06am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Tracey;
WOW! with those two photos Frank can even let Stan count the bolts on the flat car![:-laughing-:]
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 24, 2014 - 7:33am
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Wait till he hears this Ted, are you going to post the photos I sent to you Ted.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 24, 2014 - 10:14am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



AL, Jerry, Tracy . . . .

Thanks for the nice posts, great Google map find Al.

Some photos of the main Higgins building in Park City NO, not to be confused with the huge Canal plant, posted earlier:


[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Higgins-Main-01.jpg[/image]


[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/HigginsMain-02.jpg[/image]


[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/HigginMain-03.jpg[/image]




Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jul 24, 2014 - 1:18pm
Total Posts: 918 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



@ Frank Andruss,

I actually joined this forum to assist you with your project, inform the group that I'm planning to embark on an identical project, in a different scale, and thank the members of this forum for the pictures and information they've provided in this thread.

I build model trains in S-scale (1:64 scale) and discovered that Lindberg produces a model of PT-109 in this scale.

Having found the pictures that were posted on this forum, and found it an interesting enough prototype to build, I'm currently in the planning/research phase of building a model, in S-scale, depicting PT-209 loaded onto one of these flatcars.

1:64 model trains are actually divided into S-scale models and S-gauge/American-Flyer toy-trains. This is an important distinction if you or anyone else also wants to build this model in 1:64.

I intend to build an S-scale model of this prototype.

The flatcar that most closely matches the ones being employed in the prototype is manufactured by a company named 'Rex models' which, unfortunately went out of business.

http://www.nasg.org/SProductGallery/RexEngineering/REX1_01.jpg

However, they made thousands (if not tens/hundreds of thousands) of these white-metal models, and they are relatively easy to locate (on e-bay, etc.).

Keep in mind, however, that there were two 'variants' of this model produced. The first was the S-scale model, which included the unpainted metal car-body, scale trucks, scale couplers, and detail parts. For the other, they dipped the identical metal car-body in paint, and attached American-Flyer wheels and couplers, and no additional detail-parts.

The easiest (and cheapest) way to get one of these models today is to purchase one of the American-Flyer variants, remove the couplers and trucks (wheels), and strip off the horrible paint job.

You are then left with a very nicely detailed metal casting which you will need to paint and purchase S-Scale detail parts (mostly, the brake system), trucks, and couplers to complete.

I realize that it sounds complicated and expensive, but it really isn't, with the American Flyer Rex flatcar likely costing about $15.00 and you spending an additional $15.00 on the scale trucks, couplers, and a brake system (then there will be the cost of the Lindberg PT-boat).

Feel free to message me if you have any questions.
DAnconiaLead@yahoo.com


We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

~Ayn Rand

Posted By: DAnconiaLead | Posted on: May 19, 2016 - 4:58pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Thanks very much, will certainly look into this. I hope you will post photos of your project as well.............



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: May 19, 2016 - 7:40pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



These images of PT Boats on rail cars brings back a lot of memories for my family!My Dad would tell me he'd ride his bike to City Park to see the boats 'float' down the street. To him it was like a patriotic Mardi Gras float! I showed the photos to my mother (now 81) and she too remembered the 'Parade of Boats!' Thanks for posting![:-cheers-:]



Posted By: Michael Engelmann | Posted on: Jul 20, 2016 - 2:43pm
Total Posts: 4 | Joined: Jul 17, 2016 - 1:03pm



Are there any photos of how they shipped the Ron 18 boats (Elcos), I believe they were boats 362- 367. They were manufactured at the Elco plant and assembled in California. I believe.
Thanks Gary



Posted By: Gary Paulsen | Posted on: Jul 20, 2016 - 3:15pm
Total Posts: 231 | Joined: Feb 14, 2009 - 6:31am



Gary;
I believe they(PT 362-PT 367) were shipped knocked down and assembled at the Terminal Island facility.
http://www.shipbuildinghistory.com/history/shipyards/5small/inactive/harbor.htm

Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 20, 2016 - 4:09pm
Total Posts: 2837 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



PT-71 type early configs, I think.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 20, 2016 - 10:48pm
Total Posts: 1855 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Hi Gary,

You touched on one of my interests.

The six PTs were shipped by rail over a period of time as parts. Often in sep one car shipments.

In mid 1942, this project was a logistical and production test case to see if boats could be cut, packaged and then shipped to a forward location for assembly. It was also sold as setting up Terminal Island as a potential West Coast Repair facility for ELCOs (train the local labor under ELCO's supervision). It's an interesting sub story in ELCO war-time production. Things such as finding skilled labor in mid 1942 was one of the factors. The careful accounting of materials at both ends another. The use of a numbering system which was probably similar to today's bar coding yet another (people checking the arrivals often had no idea of what the parts were). Making sure enough screws, bolts and fasteners on hand (seems several shipments arrived without the little pieces to put it all together). Even concepts of pre-painting parts or not came up. The team quickly adapted and recorded all the lessons identified. In the end, the boats were completed several weeks ahead of schedule.

The Soviets accomplished something similar with their D3 MTB design. They had far more extreme conditions so they devised a strong PT boat with a maximum of simplicity of construction that could be assembled onsite by local available labor. These also relied on Packards (two).

Cheers,
Andy



Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Jul 21, 2016 - 12:56pm
Total Posts: 214 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm



Thanks, Andy. Fascinating stuff....

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 21, 2016 - 3:51pm
Total Posts: 1855 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Thanks, Andy. Fascinating stuff....

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 21, 2016 - 3:51pm
Total Posts: 1855 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Thanks Andy



Posted By: Gary Paulsen | Posted on: Jul 22, 2016 - 3:25pm
Total Posts: 231 | Joined: Feb 14, 2009 - 6:31am