The PT Boat Forum
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi


Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf


Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102


Topic: Future project help.?
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=3329



Sense there's an end in sight for PT 302 and PT 109 that are going to Frank. I'm thinking of a future easy project before the Higgins Hellcat.I just ordered an Italeri Vosper MTB. I'd like to build her as an American built Vosper. with the Higgins tubes duel 50's, and a 20 mm. Does anyone have an idea of the colors used in this color scheme


photo



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 27, 2013 - 3:45pm
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



Don't ask me, I have enough of projects going to fill a basement, trouble is I am not sure if Stan will kill me first. Not to mention Bob Butler's wonderful donations of PT-302 and PT-109. I have 2 projects with Stan, to include PT-61, and PT Diorama with LCVP, and wounded Marines. I know there must be more, oh yes, I have to do PT boats with PBY rescue. Can there be more on the way.......................



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 27, 2013 - 4:32pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Frank, a Higgins Hellcat and a American Vosper is'nt wetting your chops is it? I didn't even mention PT 196 with the fule tank, or an early Higgins with the torpeado tubes, or a diorama with an early 103 class PT and crew salvaging items off a partly sunken and grounded japanese barge. Let alone a 77' Elco PT 41 or a PT 59 gunboat, and believe me I would never mention the posibalty of a Huckins or a Canadaian Power Boat or a They Were Expenable diorama with PT 34 on the dry dock. Just promise me you won't lay there tonight trying to go to sleep thinking about all these things.



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 27, 2013 - 5:24pm
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



Bob;
WOW!!! Are you looking for a permanent position in Frank's PT Boat Nation? Al has the colors for your Vosper.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 27, 2013 - 7:08pm
Total Posts: 2892 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



I just woke up. I was dreaming about a 77 Foot Italeri Elco. Man, now would that be something or what. Keep the pressure on Dave. So many thoughts on projects, not enough room in my home..............



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 1:05am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



I sent Italeri a letter and even included a couple photos. Heard nothing in return. I'm getting a few request to buill boats for people. There's probably at least $400 in materials alone in this build. I wouldn't want tp build a boat for materials and labor and have Italeri come out with one.you can get for around $140, so Italeri GET OFF YOUR BUTTS. Send letters guys, presure, presure, presure, The vets that helped save your country should be given that courtesy at least. You have a couple cashcows that you have most of the parts made already. Also a 1/72 scale series would be nice for the people who don't have room for 1/35. Wonder how much money Revell has made off the PT 109 molds in the last 50 years? You Revell guys could do this too.



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 8:10am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



I am always amazed at the lack of US NAVY items. Most of the builders have to buy other kits and work their fannies off trying to make them look good. There is a huge lack of US NAVY up to date boats, ships, you name it. Someone should tell these Companies that the US won WWII, because I can go on line and buy anything I want, as long as it is GERMAN. Trust me if you want Germans in shorts, or Germans in pants, or Germans on Ski's, you can find it in just about any scale.

Try finding any scale for US NAVY figures, and you might as well forget it. You can get a few figures, but at crazy prices, and if your trying to do a 1/35 PT BOAT, it will cost you over $200.00 for a few figures. This is why I had to buy British guys manning a 25 pounder. My builder still has to take them home, sand off the socks, put on new heads, and do some changing of the arms to make my next project work. This is not fair to those of us that want and need these NAVY figures for our projects. Over the years I too have sent a few letter out, only to get no response, or a "We will look into it". Are you telling me that everyone out there is only building German Diorama's or German boats. Thank God ITALERI listened to some of us, and than God Dave Waples put on the pressure or we would have nothing. I think we may see a 77 Footer somewhere down the line, and this is awesome, but we need figures, and that kit that is out there with all of the guys in helmets and Life-Jackets doesn't cut it.............




Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 8:25am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



I am always amazed at the lack of US NAVY items. Most of the builders have to buy other kits and work their fannies off trying to make them look good. There is a huge lack of US NAVY up to date boats, ships, you name it. Someone should tell these Companies that the US won WWII, because I can go on line and buy anything I want, as long as it is GERMAN. Trust me if you want Germans in shorts, or Germans in pants, or Germans on Ski's, you can find it in just about any scale.

Try finding any scale for US NAVY figures, and you might as well forget it. You can get a few figures, but at crazy prices, and if your trying to do a 1/35 PT BOAT, it will cost you over $200.00 for a few figures. This is why I had to buy British guys manning a 25 pounder. My builder still has to take them home, sand off the socks, put on new heads, and do some changing of the arms to make my next project work. This is not fair to those of us that want and need these NAVY figures for our projects. Over the years I too have sent a few letter out, only to get no response, or a "We will look into it". Are you telling me that everyone out there is only building German Diorama's or German boats. Thank God ITALERI listened to some of us, and than God Dave Waples put on the pressure or we would have nothing. I think we may see a 77 Footer somewhere down the line, and this is awesome, but we need figures, and that kit that is out there with all of the guys in helmets and Life-Jackets doesn't cut it.............




Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 8:29am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Frank;
That's why I am using 1/35th German Heads from Hornet and Wolf, on my guys, mostly hatless. They do have a really nice set of USN Sailor heads with white hats, but they are hard to find. A set is on ebay now for $11.94
Hornet & Wolf 1/35 5-Heads Wearing USN Style White Sailor Cap HUH05







Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 2:04pm
Total Posts: 2892 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am




Al has the colors for your Vosper.
Take care,
TED


Nope. This is one of the Soviet boats (TK 565 or TK 250, depending on what source you want to believe) and I don't have any official Soviet documents that address naval camouflage. The pattern is similar to, but not the same as, one applied to RN Vospers.

These boats also differed substantially from those in the series depicted by the Italeri kit, primarily in the placement and size of the hatches, superstructure, and forecastle.

[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/7a9c1c2f-20a9-48a4-8e51-0f7fce1160cb_zps31e10dbd.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/vosperdif_0001.jpg[/image]

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 2:05pm
Total Posts: 904 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Hi Bob,

The photo at the beginning of the post would that have been taken at Annapolis by any chance?

It appears to have been taken there.

Also would you have any other views, Side, Stern, as one of our other members, Igor was looking for photos of the 400 series Boats?

Yours,

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 3:02pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Ted,

The extra heads I ordered are Hornet heads, although I choose not to use the ones with the white hats. There are 10 showing the heads as WWII or 1940's haircuts. I want to depict the crew with no hats on, and we can add helmets to a few if we choose. Finding Life-jackets for the boat is a pain as well.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 3:14pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Thanks for the help AL. David I got all my photos off this link,
http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05idx.htm
Look at PT 384 to 449 and BPT 21 to BPT 68. There are alot with no photos but some have a few



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 3:23pm
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



Thanks Bob, will do.

Frank talking about heads in Bobs update post the photo of the 240 has an Officer that if you could replicate would cut quite a sight on a model ( could one call this a young MacArthur look?)

O'well in for a penny in for a pound as they say.

But it would be different!!

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 3:37pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



David, there is also PT 661 to PT 730 on the list.



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 4:28pm
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



Ahoy there Frank.

There's a very good reason that so much German stuff has been kitted in styrene. It's simply because the Germans fought everywhere and thus no matter what nation a modeller is in there is a market for German figures and vehicles.

Master Box has already some fantastic styrene figures. They are VERY open to suggestions for figures. You can contact Alex at mb_ltd@ukr.net
They even have a set of four figures with a WW2 USN officer, an enlisted sailor with your choice of a monkey or a parrot, and two USN Waves.

Set is here: http://www.mbltd.info/3556.htm

They have other femals figures in other sets.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 5:46pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



Ahoy there.

When italeri released their Vosper MTB kit I was very disappointed that it wasn't the variant that Airfix has in 1/72 scale. Even the Revell type Vosper would have been welcomed by me.

Hopefully they'll release another WW2 Vosper type, a 77' Elco and a Higgins in the not too distant future.

Cheers from Peter



"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 5:59pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



Thanks Bob, that was the series that the PT 728 came from I suppose.

It appears Frank that Peter is suggesting that a PT Boat model with an all female crew could be an interesting project for Stan, but then if that's what available why not!!

Peter just quietly plants the gem of an idea, beware Frank!!!

Ahhh its one of those days!!!

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 6:59pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Frank;
That is the same way I am going with my Miami diorama, just hair, no hats. I for one am of the same mind they were back in the 1940's, other than official purposes, I will find any reason to take off my white hat. So my guys will be showing their hair.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 8:46pm
Total Posts: 2892 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am




Thanks Bob, that was the series that the PT 728 came from I suppose.

It appears Frank that Peter is suggesting that a PT Boat model with an all female crew could be an interesting project for Stan, but then if that's what available why not!!

Peter just quietly plants the gem of an idea, beware Frank!!!

Ahhh its one of those days!!!

D.buck


Ahoy there David.

An all female crew on an all pink PT boat "Operation Petticoat #2" would be a cool what if scene.

Cheers


"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 9:23pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



OK Pete now we have to get Frank on board with the idea, I know how about a diorama with a pink PT Boat alongside a pink Sub?

They'll shoot us at dawn for that one!!

But what the h**l just think of what would be said if this was made in 1/35 scale and in prominent display in Franks museum, sure would catch the eye especially with an all female crew!

O and of course with particular laundry to boot.

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Aug 28, 2013 - 11:55pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Bob,

Have been to the Navsource site and down loaded a number of photos, thanks for that as this helps to put that version of the Vosper Boats a little further along in the modelling stakes.

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 12:01am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am




OK Pete now we have to get Frank on board with the idea, I know how about a diorama with a pink PT Boat alongside a pink Sub?

They'll shoot us at dawn for that one!!

But what the h**l just think of what would be said if this was made in 1/35 scale and in prominent display in Franks museum, sure would catch the eye especially with an all female crew!

O and of course with particular laundry to boot.

D.buck


Ahoy there.

And Preisser (sp?) makes nice femal nudes that could be converted to bathing beauties. No uniforms to modify. VBEG LOL

Cheers

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 12:02am
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



Hmmm Pete that may be takeing it a bit far after all Frank likes to present his collection for the family to enjoy.

A female crew in the right context would go over as a bit of a hoot, just as Operation Petticoat created a few dilemmas for the crew of the "Swordfish" (I not sure of the name) so an all pink PT boat with that crew would to.

By now Franks either arranging a hit on you and I or he's laughing so hard he can't get off the floor, I hope its the latter.

Like I said I'm having one of those days!!

Yours in fun,

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 5:13am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



I hear you guys, loud and clear, although somehow Female Navy personnel might not go well in the war zone, on a PT BOAT. I like the figure heads with no hats, although it would be nice to have the choice to add whatever hat or helmet you want. As I mentioned I think there are 2 or three figures in the British Kit that do not have shirts on, which is a good look for an American PT BOAT in the Pacific. I will contact the Company for those mini-models, who knows they might just listen.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 10:39am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



I hear you Frank about the girls in the war zone however ( while to my knowledge it did not happen) think of them as the ones that delivered the Boats to the fighting men a'la the girls in the Ferry Squadrons that took on a very important role to get the planes from the factories to the airfields and released many men for frontline work, this happened here the U.S. and in England.

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 7:57pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



Just by the by, but a year or so ago, when I became aware of the upcoming Italeri PT 109 kit, I emailed the guy (or one of the guys) that sculpts the 1/35th scale Hornet heads,and asked him if he would do a head wearing the Army/Marine Corps fatigue cap so many PT men wore.

He said he (they) didn't plan on doing one anytime soon, but might in the future.

Nothing yet...



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 7:59pm
Total Posts: 1256 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



I must say if I had the ability to mold these figures, I would make a mint by doing US NAY 1/35 and Navy 1/72 figures. I would do some with shorts on and no shirts, some with Fatigue Hats and no shirts, some with tee shirts and shorts, some with Dungarees and no shirt, some with Dungarees and Helmets, some with shorts, and Helmets, Navy Officers. I bet it would be a home-run in the model world.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 8:24pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am




I must say if I had the ability to mold these figures, I would make a mint by doing US NAY 1/35 and Navy 1/72 figures. I would do some with shorts on and no shirts, some with Fatigue Hats and no shirts, some with tee shirts and shorts, some with Dungarees and no shirt, some with Dungarees and Helmets, some with shorts, and Helmets, Navy Officers. I bet it would be a home-run in the model world.



Ahoy there Frank.

With more 1/35 USN small craft available in styrene, you're probably right. I still have a few of the old Italeri figures (unassembled) that had T-shirts. I had gathered a Frankenstein collection of figure parts to build crews for my 2 1/32 scale Lindberg PT boats.

One day soon, I hope to get going on creating those two crews.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Aug 29, 2013 - 9:42pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



Drew, I am always surprised at the negative response we receive from these Companies in regards to added to their inventory. Maybe they feel the response for 1/35 or 1/72 Navy figures represent such a small amount, it is not worth producing the figures. This type reaction to me is foolish. The other thing is when a Company does produce a couple of Navy figures, they want an arm and a leg for them. I for one do not wish to pay $16.00 for one figure. With all of the talented people we have on this board, can anyone mold figures right at home?



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 30, 2013 - 3:59am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



I don't think you have an appreciation for how much is involved in producing these figures in terms of time and money. Producing masters and casting resin is expensive. Also the ship market is considerably smaller than the aircraft and armor markets.

I hope that we'll see somebody like Italeri produce a nice set soon. Maybe someday with 3D printing we'll have the ability to produce lower cost figures. But for now that process is very expensive.

Or you can learn to sculpt your own figures.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Aug 30, 2013 - 4:24am
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Dave

I can certainly understand the scope of things when they have to produce these figures, I guess my pet peeve is they are producing many figures, and none for the guy that needs Navy figures. Companies like Verlinden and Tamyia who produce massive amounts of figures, just don't make anything Navy, unless it is German. They concentrate mostly on ground troops, like Army, Marines, and of course anything German.

Even Dragon produces a decent amount of German and other Ground troops figures, including complete Tank Crews, and or other ground crew figures. I wrote to Verlinden and Tamyia a few years back, and they said they would look into it, nothing has surfaced. I don't understand why. If anyone will do this, my money is on Italeri, who doesn't seem to be so narrow minded as the large figures Companies. So, until we can get something on the market, I guess we will just have to due with what is out there and what can be made up.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 30, 2013 - 7:27am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



I bought a 1954 Disney Nautilus submarine off a guy that lives fairley close by. He makes them as people order them. He's a real nice guy and I've talked to him about resin casting. He said he uses a paint pressure pot for all his smaller pieces. I've used RTV molding for years, and understand it. I don't understand his process but he said if I come up and visit he would show me. I really don't think it would be that hard or expensive to produce some figures, It's just knowing how. The hard part would be coming up width the figures which could be customized from stuff already out there. Once you get your head going in that direction I think it would be pretty simple.




Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 30, 2013 - 8:52am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



I took a crash corse on Vacuum Resin Casting on Youtube. Some very intresting stuff. Bloxgen spray finish preserver sounds really neat. It would not cost that much to get set up with. One compressor could run the vacuum chamber with the intake of the compressor and the pressure pot could be run by the pressure side of the com[ressor. Here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMdicfz5Ouk



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 30, 2013 - 2:15pm
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am




Dave

I can certainly understand the scope of things when they have to produce these figures, I guess my pet peeve is they are producing many figures, and none for the guy that needs Navy figures. Companies like Verlinden and Tamyia who produce massive amounts of figures, just don't make anything Navy, unless it is German. They concentrate mostly on ground troops, like Army, Marines, and of course anything German.

Even Dragon produces a decent amount of German and other Ground troops figures, including complete Tank Crews, and or other ground crew figures. I wrote to Verlinden and Tamyia a few years back, and they said they would look into it, nothing has surfaced. I don't understand why. If anyone will do this, my money is on Italeri, who doesn't seem to be so narrow minded as the large figures Companies. So, until we can get something on the market, I guess we will just have to due with what is out there and what can be made up.



Ahoy there Friends!

Revell makes a 1/72 scale Flower Class Corvette (former Matchbox molds) and also a 1/72 scale German Type VII U-boat. Guess which vessel Revell offers after-market figures for? If you guessed the U-boat you are correct.

Cheers

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Aug 30, 2013 - 3:11pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



Adding to what PeterTare wrote, guess which product was on the half-off racks for years because no one bought them? If you guessed the U-boat crews, you were right. Still a very small market, and many builders are daunted by figures.

Tracy White
Researcher@Large

Posted By: Tracy White | Posted on: Aug 31, 2013 - 11:19pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Out of interest Popular Mechanics 1968 encyclopedia had a small injecting moulding machine that you could build to fit a bench top drill press that would give you enough plastic for 2-3 1/35 scale figures.

Now all you would need is a few figures to copy using the lost wax process and no more worries !

D.buck

Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 3:00am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am



I don't want to speak out of turn, but I think Bob Butler might be willing to give it a try to make some figures. Can you expand on this Bob. I know we touched on the subject the other day while talking.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 6:16am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



There's enough talent on this message board if some of you guys make a $500 investment, you can share your work and make a few bucks on the side. All the model companies leave errors in their products where a guy could get into making pieces to fix these or modify their models. There's a big market out there. I don't get the Companies thinking at times. In the case of Italeri for instance, common sense says they would have a couple cash cows in the production of a 78' Higgins or a 77' Elco, most of the parts are already made. But they continue their series with a couple nobody gives a crap kits. They come out with a conversion kit with torpedoes and no launchers. This is a way to give you the freedom to make what you want. If they aren't going to listen to there customers we can make it ourselves. When they want something from you fine but when you want something from them they don't even return your messages. If people want figures they don't seem that hard, they can be modified from existing heads, torsos, arms, legs, etc. The process is cheap and easy enough if you just wanted to do stuff for just yourself and a few friends. I think it's more about having fun than making money, of course I'm not working and have an income. You just can't depend on the companies to create what you want. I'm going to purchase the things I need and after I get a few projects out of the way and a move out of California I may start a cottage business.



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 10:19am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



I think based on past experience, Italeri has been among the most responsive of the major companies we have dealt with. They are certainly not a PT model panacea, but they do communicate.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 5:39pm
Total Posts: 1902 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Don't get me wrong Will , I agree that they listen the best in the past. I've sent two letters over the past 3 months and the frist I got a forum letter, Thank you for your intrest, bla, bla, bla, etc. The secound about a month ago haven't heard a word back. I just believe staying on their case is the best approch if we really want to get what we want.



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 7:03pm
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



Like my Dad always used to say "The Squeaky Wheel gets the Oil"......................



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 7:35pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am




In the case of Italeri for instance, common sense says they would have a couple cash cows in the production of a 78' Higgins or a 77' Elco, most of the parts are already made. But they continue their series with a couple nobody gives a crap kits. They come out with a conversion kit with torpedoes and no launchers. This is a way to give you the freedom to make what you want. If they aren't going to listen to there customers we can make it ourselves. When they want something from you fine but when you want something from them they don't even return your messages.



Time out on the field. I don't think this is fair at all. If not for Italeri we would not have these very nice coastal forces boats in this scale and quality. Italeri was open to accepting input from us and they did listen to what we asked for. Yes their marketing department did limit the extent of their upgrade kit but it's better than no upgrade kit at all. They have done figure sets for their other releases so be patient and positive. We may get that pacific crew we've been hoping for. As for Higgins and 77' Elco's, again... be patient. Dick has sent them a ton of information and if you send a message to them they're marketing department will listen. We may see these kits in the coming years. So far they've devoted one release per year to 1/35 coastal boats. Their next release is the X-Craft. We're very fortunate that Italeri has picked out this niche market and provided us with kits that we have an interest in. And by the way, sometimes it takes a while for them to write back, but they always have. They're just very busy people.

The reality of the figure market is that the highest demand for naval figures is 1/700 and 1/350 and now 1/200. There is more activity there. In 1/35 the highest demand is to support the armor builders because that's their scale. There's a bunch out there but they are not cheap. Italeri has done very well with their 1/35 figures supporting their coastal forces subjects. They can be very hard to find after a year on the market. I have requested that they produce a set based on the half dressed sailors we see on PT boats. If they make a set I'm sure it will be based on JFK at the helm with supporting crew.

Hang in there guys.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 10:05pm
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm





In the case of Italeri for instance, common sense says they would have a couple cash cows in the production of a 78' Higgins or a 77' Elco, most of the parts are already made. But they continue their series with a couple nobody gives a crap kits. They come out with a conversion kit with torpedoes and no launchers. This is a way to give you the freedom to make what you want. If they aren't going to listen to there customers we can make it ourselves. When they want something from you fine but when you want something from them they don't even return your messages.



Time out on the field. I don't think this is fair at all. If not for Italeri we would not have these very nice coastal forces boats in this scale and quality. Italeri was open to accepting input from us and they did listen to what we asked for. Yes their marketing department did limit the extent of their upgrade kit but it's better than no upgrade kit at all. They have done figure sets for their other releases so be patient and positive. We may get that pacific crew we've been hoping for. As for Higgins and 77' Elco's, again... be patient. Dick has sent them a ton of information and if you send a message to them they're marketing department will listen. We may see these kits in the coming years. So far they've devoted one release per year to 1/35 coastal boats. Their next release is the X-Craft. We're very fortunate that Italeri has picked out this niche market and provided us with kits that we have an interest in. And by the way, sometimes it takes a while for them to write back, but they always have. They're just very busy people.

The reality of the figure market is that the highest demand for naval figures is 1/700 and 1/350 and now 1/200. There is more activity there. In 1/35 the highest demand is to support the armor builders because that's their scale. There's a bunch out there but they are not cheap. Italeri has done very well with their 1/35 figures supporting their coastal forces subjects. They can be very hard to find after a year on the market. I have requested that they produce a set based on the half dressed sailors we see on PT boats. If they make a set I'm sure it will be based on JFK at the helm with supporting crew.

Hang in there guys.
Dave

David Waples


Ahoy there. At least Italeri made a 1/35 scale PT boat crew. They'll probably release it again or if there's enough interest do another one in South pacific garb.

There seems to ba a shift happening from 1/35 scale to 1/48 scale in armour and related figures.

With Italeri, there's now the British Vosper, the German Schnellboot and two USN PT boats. Another plus is that the Italeri kits are a lot more accurate and detialed than the old mish mash from Lindberg that was their "PT-109" boat in 1/32 scale but didn't even have the right hull shape.

We need to give Italeri time.

Cheersfrom Peter

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Sep 1, 2013 - 10:42pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



Don't forget the other kits they've produced in 1/35....

Italian M.A.S. boat
MTM Barchino
German Biber
Dock sections
And again coming this year the X-Craft.

Italeri has been committed to these small boats, this scale, and add on products. Two of the three winners at this year's IPMS Nationals in the large scale boat category were Italeri kits, one of which I'm proud to say was my LCVP. The other being the M.A.S. boat.

I've been reaching out to some after market companies trying to generate interest in other add on parts. For example before Italeri released their upgrade kit I tried to see if we could get some companies to do an SO radar. While I received some interest or polite responses nobody did it except Italeri, and they gave us both styles!

Put yourself in their shoes. They get a LOT of correspondence from people asking for different subjects and variations. They do listen to what people are asking for and they have been very receptive. They also have a business to run and they are going to produce kits that they believe the market wants and will make money for their company. All I can tell you is let them know what you're interested in and if they get enough feedback their marketing department may give it a go. They are and have been listening to what modelers want.

Dave


 photo P1250796_zpsd919859c.jpg


David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 2, 2013 - 6:04am
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm




David . . .

Well said and I commend you for taking a tough stance and a defender for Italeri.

I've been involved with R&D, design, manufacturing production and marketing for than 45 years. It is [b]NO[/b] small task for any company to take on a new product of any nature. For those who believe Italeri is rolling in cash profits for a few costal force boats, better head back to school and revisit the real world of economics and manufacturing 101.

You know, I had written a whole lot more but before I pressed the "Post" button I though better and deleted it ! ! ! !

Dick . . .

PS: Just think, we're the only [b]nuts[/b] (on the PT side that is) writing Italeri thousands and thousands of letters begging, and pleading for this model, and that model, oh yeah, one of those and a couple of those, oh, oh, oh yes a three full fists or more of U.S. naval figures in 50 or 60 configurations and options ! ! ! ! ! oh, oh, oh . . . . . .

I think its time for a reality check.






Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Sep 2, 2013 - 7:20am
Total Posts: 944 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Dick and David;
Well said. I for one have waited since at least 1983, when I bought my first Lindberg 1/32 PT Boat, for these models to come out, I for one can wait a few more years.
Take care
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 2, 2013 - 8:42am
Total Posts: 2892 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Well said, gentlemen. One of the great virtues of good modeling is patience....


Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Sep 2, 2013 - 5:16pm
Total Posts: 1902 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



We may have steered off course a bit. I love what Italeri has done for us small boat nuts, and I still think they will be the ones to come out with the figures we want. Italeri is certainly not the leader in small 1/72, 1/35 figures in the market. I was just complaining about these other companies and their lack of interest in what Navy model builders want or need. They have had plenty of time to try and come out with something to please the Navy guys. If not mistaken, I think 1/35 figures has become very popular with model builders, and certainly 1/72 has huge share of interest.

Even when Alex, Stan, Frank and Al were busy putting together my PT-374 Memorial project, we were really stuck for figures. Thank God for Frank, who took tons of time to bash figures together, using anything he could muster to get what we wanted. When Stan built the PT-108. Sub project in 1/72 scale, I was lucky to find sub figures, but had to use figures from the 109 Revell Kits to produce some of the PT figures. Even my FEMU BARGE model was a killer in finding figures that would work in 1/72 scale. All I am saying is what a joy it would be if we had figures for Navy PT Boats, and Navy Base personnel for these types of projects. Trust me, I think Italeri has gone above and beyond in providing the items we have asked for. In Bob's defense, sometimes it can get fustrating to write letters and not get any response, I am sure it has happened to all of us at one point or another. For me it has happened more than once with Verlinden, which makes you feel they are not listening.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Sep 2, 2013 - 10:02pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am



Thanks Frank, You guys have all been around for a while and you've seen how Italeri worked with you on the Elco Boats, and you have positive.feelings. I really respect that. Here is a large company that is approachable, and if they weren't I would not even be trying to push them a bit. I'm not even thinking about sending letters to Revell or Trumpeter or anyone else. I'm new to this Forum and I did't go through that positive process with all you folks. I've sent two letters to Italeri.with no real reply, I've had broken parts and a couple months ago I sent for replacements to their distrubter with the bar codes and stickers they requested, and nothing, not even a Sorry we can't help. So I'm batting a big ZERO with them on communicating and service, and I have at least $3000 of there kits in my closet. On top of that I'm getting request for models of Higgins Boats for the guys who served on them. I don't really want to say no and I don't want to charge $1200 a boat and take forever in man hours when Italeri may have one on the horizon that will go for under $200, and I can do a build for for them under $500 in a short time. I would be embarested to take some of these projects on and charge for them to only find out a kit will be out before I could even finish them. That is why I want to push the wheels and gears of a big corperation to get some information or even a product out, I'm sure they have employee's there that want the same. My experiance is there are mangers with very little forsight. I would like to finish these requested boats while the vets are still around to enjoy them. I'm sorry if I ruffeled a few of your feathers. I'll be keeping my hopes to myself in the future.



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 9:17am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am




Thanks Frank, You guys have all been around for a while and you've seen how Italeri worked with you on the Elco Boats, and you have positive.feelings. I really respect that. Here is a large company that is approachable, and if they weren't I would not even be trying to push them a bit. I'm not even thinking about sending letters to Revell or Trumpeter or anyone else. I'm new to this Forum and I did't go through that positive process with all you folks. I've sent two letters to Italeri.with no real reply, I've had broken parts and a couple months ago I sent for replacements to their distrubter with the bar codes and stickers they requested, and nothing, not even a Sorry we can't help. So I'm batting a big ZERO with them on communicating and service, and I have at least $3000 of there kits in my closet. On top of that I'm getting request for models of Higgins Boats for the guys who served on them. I don't really want to say no and I don't want to charge $1200 a boat and take forever in man hours when Italeri may have one on the horizon that will go for under $200, and I can do a build for for them under $500 in a short time. I would be embarested to take some of these projects on and charge for them to only find out a kit will be out before I could even finish them. That is why I want to push the wheels and gears of a big corperation to get some information or even a product out, I'm sure they have employee's there that want the same. My experiance is there are mangers with very little forsight. I would like to finish these requested boats while the vets are still around to enjoy them. I'm sorry if I ruffeled a few of your feathers. I'll be keeping my hopes to myself in the future.



Ahoy there mates.

To paraphrase Oddball in Kelly's Heroes, "Think positiv thoughts. Think beautiful thoughts. The 77' Elco and the 78' Higgins will be here."

I think there's an excellent chance that a 77' Elco boat, perhaps a gunboat, will be released by Italeri to take adavantage of the recent renewed interest in JFK. I wonder if Italeri is aware that JFK commanded such a boat?

THen again, Italeri might release a Higgins first. After all did the public know of any famous person who used a boat like PT-596? Yet Itlaeri released that kit before the other 80' Elco.

One thing I found interesting is that Lindberg was so helpful in sending me parts I offered to buy from them in order to refurbish a 1/32 scale PT boat model that had lost some parts over the years and to build an earlier variant of the boat in their kit. Italeri sent mefigures, 20 mm guns, spare magazines, many deck fittings and the brass tubes and brass prop shafts. Ironic thatthe company with the worst kit has the best customer service when it comes to broken or missing parts.

I'm going to keep hoping that Italeri will release a 77' Elco and a 78' Higgins. At least with their other releases of 1/35 scale coastal forces boats we have reason to hope for these other boats in styrene.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 2:03pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



FSM magazine has an interesting article this month on the eventual development of "dial your own models" (sort of) where you can just send in your specs and get the exact piece you desire. I doubt if it will be in our lifetime and I'm sure it won't be cheap.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 4:06pm
Total Posts: 1902 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



It's early but it will be in our life time. It's happening now. I attended a very interesting seminar on 3D printing. The cost has come down dramatically. I would say within 5 years there will be a segment of the market which will allow you to order a model and configure it the way you want it. As the databases grow so will the options. Take a look at Shapeways. When you send something for them to print it can go into a community database. You can go there and order something printed 3D in resin. One of the things they showed us in class was imaging faces and printing scale figures of real people. Perhaps in 10 years Frank can print an entire PT Boat crew that looks like him!

The challenge is doing the design work. As the software advances so will the time required to create a project. I joke with Jeff Davidson that we'll be able to press the print button and out will pop his beautiful drawings in 3D.

Stay tuned and watch it go.

Dave



David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 6:33pm
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Now that is funny Dave. I'm not sure what I would enjoy more. An entire crew of Franks or just one Frank and the rest all female !!



Posted By: Roy Forbes | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 7:43pm
Total Posts: 361 | Joined: Sep 5, 2012 - 4:57pm



It's early but it will be in our life time. It's happening now. I attended a very interesting seminar on 3D printing. The cost has come down dramatically. I would say within 5 years there will be a segment of the market which will allow you to order a model and configure it the way you want it. As the databases grow so will the options. Take a look at Shapeways. When you send something for them to print it can go into a community database. You can go there and order something printed 3D in resin. One of the things they showed us in class was imaging faces and printing scale figures of real people. Perhaps in 10 years Frank can print an entire PT Boat crew that looks like him!

The challenge is doing the design work. As the software advances so will the time required to create a project. I joke with Jeff Davidson that we'll be able to press the print button and out will pop his beautiful drawings in 3D.

Stay tuned and watch it go.

Dave



David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 9:09pm
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



We need to keep it real. There would be no women on Frank's boat. :-)
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 9:10pm
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



oops! duplicate post correciton

Dave


David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 9:25pm
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



damn, wrong button! :-)



David Waples


David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 9:26pm
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



3D printers sound really cool at first. After thinking about it for a while I don't know if they will be good or bad. Gluing your fingers together and searching for dropped parts in carpet probably won't be missed. But how many skills will be lost. Before calculators came out I was really good with math, now I suck at it. How about the pride you feel when you do a really great job on a really bad kit or a fantastic job on a great kit? It's going to be interesting for sure.



Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Sep 3, 2013 - 10:43pm
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am



3D printing even allows for color printing. That said Bob for guys like us we wont just order up a finished model. We're builders at heart and will continue to be that way. But imagine being able to go to a parts bank and say I need this part for my project, have it designed and/or printed and shipped to you. Or think about that Vosper. Maybe you could go to Italeri and say I want that same boat with these changes. There are lots of interesting possibilities, some we'll see but maybe reserved for future generations of modelers. But there's no doubt it will change the hobby as we know it today and I suspect it will be for the good.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 4, 2013 - 4:54am
Total Posts: 1608 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



No way is the World ready for an entire crew of Frank's, besides with 10 or 12 Franks the boat would be over-loaded. I would be happy with one skipper that looked like Frank....................NO GIRLS until we reach port.



Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Sep 4, 2013 - 7:33am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am