The PT Boat Forum
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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: The Mother of all Dioramas
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=3306

I went to an IPMS meeting tonight in Reno NV, the "Reno High Rollers " Their was a new guy there, and he was really thrilled to be around a bunch of modelers. I don't think he had been to a meeting for some time. This guy kind of impressed me. For 35 years he as been building every ship that was at Pearl Harbor on the morning of Dec 7, 1941 before the attack. He has over 200 buildings, lots and lots of airplanes, cars, trucks, etc. Plans to Ford Island. and the harbor. He is a historian as well as a modeler, and his models look really nice. In short he is building a 1/700 diorama of Pearl Harbor. I took PT 302 for it's first public showing, so the subject of PT Boats was in the air. After the meeting he walks up to me and we shake hands and he opens his other hand and has a 1/700 scale PT Boat in his palm. Maybe an inch long at the most. He say's "I've got all 17, the 15 in the harbor and the 2 outside. How big do you think a 1/700 scale diorama will be of Pearl Harbor?

Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 12:40am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am

Bob
Am I to understand there were 17 PTs at Pearl during the attack? I knew some were in the process of joining SQD 3 in the Manila but I didn't know there were that many.

Larry
62 Bel-Air
260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2

Posted By: bubbletop409 | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 12:55am
Total Posts: 164 | Joined: Apr 22, 2013 - 11:48pm

On page 11 of the book AMERICAN PT BOATS IN WW II, vol. 1, six PT boats were shown
on the drawing if that 's any help.
Victor Chun

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 7:18am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

There were not 15 PT BOATS at Pearl at the time of the attack. There may have been 12 boats based there at the time from MTB One, commanded by Lt. Commander William C. Specht. In fact I think 6 of these boats were loaded or being loaded for transfer to the Philippines, although they did fire at the attackers. The 6 boats that were supposed to be transferred were put back into the water when it was found to be near impossible to ship anything into Manila Bay. You may want to talk to your friend about this Bob.

Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 8:18am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am

To be honest, until recently I just found out there were PT's at Pearl. I love PT's and I though that was pretty neat. History is not my main thing. I'm just a builder, but it's very interesting to me. The modeling takes up enough of my time. I need the historians for the research. The model company's are suppose to provide that. When you scratch build that's when you have to go out and find it. Frank and I are doing this PT 302 together. It's something that I couldn't do with out him, and he's the man when you need detail. I think we make a great team and are becoming friends, a lot of good things are coming out of this. That's what the guy said, I don't know enough to argue with him. I won't see him again until nest month, I want to sit down and talk to him, and see more of his models. I'll ask him than. What I was impressed with was the scope of his project. and how anyone could go 35 years with that passion. When he said 17 , I though 17?, that's a weird number. 6, 12 that would make more sense to me. I saw maybe a dozen of his models, and they were nice. The thing that makes this Forum great are the combination of the Vet's Historian's, Builders and Modelers. There's a lot of knowledge and a lot of history being preserved here When I see him I'll see if he'll post on the forum so you guys can converse, that would be of great interest .

Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 8:34am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am

Bob;
Is this the guy?http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=149477
That is very impressive! Also mind boggling! Who knows maybe he got a little confused in his research, being RON 3 did need 5-6 more boats to bring it up to full strength, he probably thought RON 1 was already at full strength. just guessing here.
I think there is a similar diorama at Pearl Harbor currently on display. the guy who built that one, I think he was a survivor or a Navy WWll Vet and he was about 80- 85 years old when he finished it.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 9:27am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted at this stage I dont know, like I said I'm planning to talk to him next month. If he shows there is a contest in Reno on the 7th and I'll be able to talk to him for hours. than a week later there is another meeting. I'm sure if he's in error he would like to know the truth. When he opened his hand me and another guy made a couple cracks like I need my glasses. He had the colors on the boats wrong I think but I didn't say anything at that time. His thing is not PT Boats, his thing is Pearl Harbor, so his place won't be this forum. I'll tell him what I've learned and maybe he'll give his email so those intrested can converse. I think he travels the world with his work. And he was very excited to be able th share his passion with those intrested. He said he was asked to display his models in the Philippines at the anniversary of the surrender. It was going to be tilted the Fleet Finally Arives. I guess I gave him a pretty weird look because he gave me one back. If you guys have any questions I'll take a list and get back to you. Logic tells me with a project that size there are a few mistakes. And if he builds or has built a ship carring PT Boats that is something I want to see

Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 9:53am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am

Here is the accounting as detailed in "At Close Quarters"

[b]"AT CLOSE QUARTERS - PT Boats in the United States Navy"[/b]
by Captain Robert J. Bulkley, Jr., USNR (Retired)
Naval History Division, Washington: 1962

PART I -  Into Action -- Pearl Harbor and the Philippines

2. "THEY LOOK LIKE JAPS"

On the morning of December 7, 1941, six PT's, the 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25, were moored at the Pearl Harbor Submarine Base in three nests of two boats each, alongside and ahead of the YR-20, a covered barge which served, for lack of anything better, as tender for Squadron I. Aboard the barge the boat crews were eating breakfast. The Squadron Duty Officer, Ens. N. E. Ball, USNR, was standing on the edge of the barge. Looking out across Kuahua Island, he saw planes in the sky, and watched them idly for a moment as they started to dive toward Battleship Row and Ford Island just beyond. Then four things happened, almost simultaneously. Ensign Ball recognized Japanese insignia on the wingtips; a chief petty officer at his elbow remarked, "They look like Japs"; the first bomb dropped, and Ensign Ball plunged into the messhall, shouting, "MAN THE GUNS!"

PT's in those days were lightly gunned -- two pairs of .50-caliber machine-guns mounted in power-driven turrets, but in a matter of seconds all were firing. Joy Van Zyll de Jong, GM1c, and George B. Huffman, TM1c, who had been sitting on the deck of PT 23, got a slight head start on the men from the messhall. They vaulted into the 23 boat's turrets and claimed first blood with hits on a low-flying plane carrying one torpedo, which crashed in flames near Kuahua Island. They also hit a torpedo plane flying over Magazine Point. It burst into flames and fell near Halawa, behind the Submarine Base.

Across Southeast Loch from the Submarine Base, about halfway to Ford Island, the other six boats of the squadron were being loaded aboard the USS Ramapo, an oiler, for shipment to the Philippines. PT's 27, 29, 30, and 42 were in cradles resting on the Ramapo's deck. PT's 26 and 28 were in cradles on the dock beneath the huge hammerhead crane which had been about to hoist them aboard the oiler. To reduce fire hazard during shipment, the gasoline tanks of all six PT's had been blanketed with carbon dioxide. Consequently the crews could not start the gasoline engines to compress the air which in turn forced oil through cylinders to move the power turrets. The boat crews quickly cut the hydraulic lines, freeing the turrets from the brake of residual hydraulic pressure. Then each pair of .50-caliber machine-guns went into action with a four-man crew: one man to fire the guns, two men to slew the turrets around by hand, and an officer to direct and coordinate the slewing and firing. The Ramapo's guns were firing, too. Though her starboard 3-inch guns were blanked off by the hammerhead crane on the dock, they managed to fire from time to time, to the acute discomfort of the crews of the PT's in cradles on the dock, whose decks were just high enough to catch the muzzle blast. One bomb struck near the port bow of the Ramapo, midway between the repair ship Rigel in the berth ahead and the heavy cruiser New Orleans opposite. The PT's, undamaged, poured out more than 4,000 rounds of .50 caliber. They appeared to be hitting Japanese planes, but so many ships were firing simultaneously that it would be futile to attempt to make specific claims.

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 10:09am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

Dick, Thanks. If you don't mind I'll copy this and share it with him. PT's are a very small part of his project. but with the Forum's help we'll see he gets that part of it right. By the way very intersting .

Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 10:18am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am

For more details on PT boats at Pearl Harbor please read page 2 and 3 of AT CLOSE
QUARTERS by Robert J Bulkley Jr.

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 11:17am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Bob;
Tell him factory Gray PT boats would be correct, however, sometime shortly afterwards(Jan-Apr 1942) the boats were repainted what has been termed "Robins Egg Blue" , however if you watch the video John Ford made at Midway, they look more like weathered/lightened Deck Blue.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 10, 2013 - 11:23am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Hey Bob, if you want another funny look, ask him when he's going to start the "after" diorama.

I checked that link you posted Ted, what an impressive piece of work! He even plans on populating it with figures. A heck of a display case too...

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Aug 11, 2013 - 4:22am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

What a wonderful piece of work. How do these guys do it, what talent this man has.

Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Aug 11, 2013 - 4:54am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am

Just a rough estimate but a map I saw of the base and harbor was roughly 3 miles by 2 miles in dimension. That would make the base of the diorama about 22.6 feet by 15 feet at scale. What a big undertaking.
Gary

Posted By: Gary Paulsen | Posted on: Aug 11, 2013 - 8:00am
Total Posts: 249 | Joined: Feb 14, 2009 - 6:31am

That may not be as bad as I though. That's the sizre of a decent room and I have seen model railroad layouts around that size, of corse they had all sorts of trap doors to get to the stluff, It's posiable. When the modelers I know get together we do a alot of laughting and kidding at ourselfs. We really get crazy on buying kits, can't resists good prices, most have doubles, triples, and even more if the price is right. Lots of the guys have stashes in closets. garages and even storage units. Most would need 2 or 3 lifetimes to build everything. I hate to say it but I have closets that are full and 2 storage units. I've seen hobbyshops with less. I rate right up there with the sickest. Waiting for Ebay to get selling again.

Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 11, 2013 - 8:37am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am

Ted, I think his name is Jeff, but the ships look a little different. He said he's been working on his for 35 years. I'll find out for sure an let you know.

Posted By: Bob Butler | Posted on: Aug 11, 2013 - 8:54am
Total Posts: 192 | Joined: Mar 23, 2013 - 11:58am

I'd like to see that baby. Unfortunately, I couldn't find it with the link provided. Hopefully, someone will post a photo or two.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Aug 11, 2013 - 7:23pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Bob;
Is this the guy?http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=149477
That is very impressive! Also mind boggling! Who knows maybe he got a little confused in his research, being RON 3 did need 5-6 more boats to bring it up to full strength, he probably thought RON 1 was already at full strength. just guessing here.
I think there is a similar diorama at Pearl Harbor currently on display. the guy who built that one, I think he was a survivor or a Navy WWll Vet and he was about 80- 85 years old when he finished it.
Take care,
TED

I just checked the start of that thread and he says it's been ten years since he started it. thus it seems that it can not be the same diorama.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Aug 11, 2013 - 8:01pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm