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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: Mystery Photo
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=3252

Who can ID this?

[URL=http://s183.photobucket.com/user/willday6/media/40MM50-CALIBER_zps7eaf1128.jpg.html][image]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x164/willday6/40MM50-CALIBER_zps7eaf1128.jpg[/image][/URL]

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 8, 2013 - 6:14pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

It looks a little small to be 40mm. 37mm maybe? I think some of the SWP boats mounted them for a time.

Also look like ASR of maybe Huckins boats in the background.

Are these things even mounted on a PT? Has she been hauled for repairs.

I wonder if this could be Taboga.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 8, 2013 - 6:16pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

At least one Elco '80 out there.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 8, 2013 - 6:18pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

Notice the .50 along the barrel. If I remember correctly some Army AA guns had .50s along with the 40MM.

Posted By: JBG327 | Posted on: Jul 8, 2013 - 7:22pm
Total Posts: 74 | Joined: Sep 29, 2012 - 2:40pm

Ok, even weirder, heres another bofors? with a 50 cal attached just like the one in the PT156 or 155 thread though the mounting of it looks different, not such a wide gap between the weapons

Posted By: Iowabrit | Posted on: Jul 8, 2013 - 7:26pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

From the way the ready service lockers are mounted I think it might be in the Med somewhere. Perhaps English Channel?
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jul 8, 2013 - 9:09pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Will;
I can I.D. it. You are correct, this is the marine railway at Toboga, the rails were still there, when I went back in 2006, but when I went back in 2010, they were removed. The boat moored off to the left side(which sort of looks like a ELCO 77' PT), is tied to the floating pier which was secured to Moro Island. The Huckins is a RON 4/14 boat(PT 98-102), I have a few photos of 99 and 102, from the same time frame. Sometime around late spring-early summer 1943. I have always thought this was a RON 12 boat, note lever for the roll off rack, on left side of photo, also if you look closer, you see not one but two .50 cals, one over, and one under!! It might just be the angle of the gun, but was there ever a short barrel 40mm?
I have a photo at home of PT 195 "Black Agnes", moored at Moro Island, I will look at it again, and post it if it shows anything significant.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 5:05am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Will;
Here is a photo I found of "Comarade Frankie" and his buddies, practice loading a 37mm AA, this is similar to the lend lease export mount 37mm. while the mount is similar to the 40mm, you can see some obvious differences to not only the mount, but the gun. Also, in an over head photo I found the 37mm has 3 seats for guncrew, not 2 like the 40mm. So the photo you posted is a 40mm.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/FrankandsomebuddiesRussian37mm670K.jpg[/image]

Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 6:22am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

I believe the .50 cal is a spotting rifle. These were sometime used on 105's, and others.

While I was in flight training in the army these .50 cal, semiauto spotting rifles where mounted on our helicopter gunships and used with tracer rounds to simulate folding fin rocket fire. Much cheaper than using actual rockets for training.

The cases for these spotting rounds are shorter that a normal .50 machine gun round.

Don Millman
Oriental, NC

Posted By: Don Millman | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 7:39am
Total Posts: 35 | Joined: Jan 28, 2009 - 8:29am

Hi Ted -

I'm looking, but I can't make out a second .50-cal.

That suppression rail certainly is interesting. Wish there was a reverse angle to show what parts of the boat were covered.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 2:39pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

see post below. Dick can you delete this please,
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 3:14pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

OOPS! Damn, that's not another barrel, its the port side gun site. I will lock myself in the brig for this one. Sorry.
TED

P.S. However, it is Toboga around the time frame I stated and I still think its a RON 12 boat. They were the first with 40mm and roll offs, also this boat does appear to have a planked deck.

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 3:17pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Indeed it does. . .

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 3:52pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

This sure looks like a 37MM to me. In fact if not mistaken, Ron 19 boats had this gun. They had the same set up as the 40mm, complete with seats, and training, and firing set ups. I have a shot of one somewhere.

Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 4:19pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am

Frank;
I am typing from the MTBSTC/PTBOATFORUM Brig, post your photo, because the RON 12 boats that did mount 37mm on the stern, I think mounted them astern on the MK 10 tripod mount. I have a photo of PT 190 at Morobe(alongside Rum Ewing's PT 191), which I got from Gene's website, with this mount, but the actual weapon is covered with a tarp, it does look a little more bulky than the average 20mm. Please post your RON 19 photo, by now we are all interested.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 9, 2013 - 4:45pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Will;
Wayne sent me this copy last night of PT 195 RON 12(Black Agnes) tied up to the floating pier at Moro Island, Toboga Island, Panama late spring-summer 1943. Notice the set up on the stern is sort of the same, too bad that guy is standing in the way, who knows if there is a .50 cal there.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT_195.jpg[/image]

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 10, 2013 - 8:37am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Definitely a 40mm. The 37mm did not have the twin recuperators.

Al Ross

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jul 11, 2013 - 5:56pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Al;
So your saying it only had one? So the " Comerade Frankie" I posted earlier would be the way the weapon should appear, correct?
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 7:09am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted, post the photo I sent to you of the 37mm on the PT BOAT, so everyone can see it.

Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 7:14am
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am

Frank;
Here it is:
RON 19 37mm Vella La Vella 1944.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/VellaLaVellaIsland001-1.jpg[/image]

Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 7:31am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted and Frank: Back on April 8, 2008 on this message board we had quite a discussion regarding these stern mounted 37 mm guns. Our 242 and all Ron 19 boats had these guns. They were mounted at Esperito Santos after being unloaded from the tankers and before the squadron went into combat. I have a picture of one of the guns being mounted on the 254 boat a Ron 20 boat.

C. J. Willis

Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 8:52am
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm

C,J,
Post the photo of the 254 boats stern 37mm Please? 40mm had twin recuperators, 37mm's had one, which I think were below the barrel.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 4:18pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

I wonder what the difference was in hitting power when using the 37mm vs. the 40mm. I have shells for both weapons and they are both pretty powerful type weapon systems., the shells being close in size with the 40mm being longer, and the 37mm being fatter.

Posted By: Frank Andruss | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 4:52pm
Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am

Frank;
The amount of more gunpowder in the casing equals more punch through the armor power!
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 7:12pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

U.S.SMALL COMBATANTS has some comparison info on the damge done by various calibers, mostly against barges.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 9:53pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

Respectfully, guys, at this point I have to disagree that this photo
[image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/VellaLaVellaIsland001-1_zps8aa999ba.jpg[/image]
is a 37mm M1. Compare it to this photo from the 40mm tech manual [image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/40_zpsea66209b.jpg[/image] and these shots of the 37mm M1. [image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/id_aaa_37mm_700_zps292868ea.jpg[/image] [image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/800px-61-K_zps6666bfa8.jpg[/image] [image]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/id_aaa_37mm_factory_500_zps95c05d35.jpg[/image] There are lots of differences.

Also, re: the much earlier discussion of the photo of RON36 boats with the aft 37mm, what is the source for this?

Al Ross

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jul 13, 2013 - 6:22pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Al;
Who said RON 36?
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 11:16am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Al;
Who said RON 36?
Take care,
TED

[url]http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=712&st=10&nd=20&pg=1&sc=20[/url]

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 1:10pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Al;
Wow!!! That was really going back in time!
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 15, 2013 - 6:47am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am