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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: PT-66
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At some point soon Stan Pienkowski will be starting my 1/20 PT-66. I know in my last thread about the colors and of course which boat was in the photo's, it was no doubt PT-66 in that crazy color scheme, painted on by the crew. Because I am having so much difficulty in trying to determine the actual colors ( even Al was unsure) I may opt for a different build, same boat of course, but maybe a sure color green. I may do the boat in honor of Ken Prescott, which I know will make Ted happy, but need to know what was on the boat for armament, and of course the color of the boat. I think she still carried those 2 .30 calibers on the bow, and the single .50 mount. Did the boat ever carry a 40mm, or an updated Radar mast..............



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 7:01am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



I do know that Ken was in the 61 boat, although not sure if that boat had the 2 MK-8 torpedoes in tubes and the only ash cans on her stern, like the 66 boat did. Someone had mentioned Kens boat was gray, although I am not sure...........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 7:18am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Sorry about that, I found the color shots of the 61 boats after I posted. Sure looks gray to me, with a tint of blue..........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 7:21am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Sorry about that, I found the color shots of the 61 boats after I posted. Sure looks gray to me, with a tint of blue..........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 7:21am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Hi Frank . . .

If you look at the many color photos in Ken's DVD version of his book
"A PT Skipper in the South Pacific:"
" A Naval Officer's Memoir of Service on PTs and a PT Boat Tender"

The boat actually looks like it is very heavily oxidized green, but it can only be seen when viewing several photos of different parts of his boat, one such shot showing the two turrets side by side the green is apparent, and if you look hard at the couple we've seen posted in the past you can what appears to be green under heavy oxidation or under gray (which doesn't make sense). But you know, my eyes are sometimes green and other times blue, so there may be a big issue here. What really is the color Green?

Oh no, not another "Color" issue, well at least it's a 77 footer and not the other one ! ! ! ! !

Take care,
Dick . . .




Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 7:47am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Dick, thank God it s a 77 footer this time around the block. I think it depends a great deal on angles, and the sun. I would like to be as close as possible to the color, whatever boat we choose to represent., but I am not going to be too crazy about it, because I do not think any boat being done is a spot on match to what was really out there at that time. Old color photos change over time, and forget black and white. As far as the PT-66 near Morobe early on, I am really afraid to use something in that pattern and have it turn out funky...............



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 11:21am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Colour(s)?

I think that there are far too many variables present to be able to state precisely what any colour was or how it appeared at any given time. I built a wood frame Caribou Innuit kayak once and covered it with sewn together bedsheets which I then waterproofed by painting it with Brick Red paint. Once I had it down by the beach to take pictures of it. I took a picture of it from the bow and 15 seconds later I took another one from the stern. This boat was 24 feet long. The image from the bow showed a brick red colour but the shot from the stern showed the kayak as eing a deep brown colour. Like I said it was no more than 15 seconds between pictures. One had the sun behing and the other was more towards the sun. Also, time of day can greatly affect the colour of an image. Certain tims of the day have more yellow in them. I have pictures, I took of a model modelling a black leather pantsuit, that I took late on an October afternoon. The leather too appeared to be a very deep brown colour not black. Yet earlier that same afternoon (about 3/4 hour previously) those same black leather items appeared to be deep blue.

So many variables including fading of the paint and whether the paint is wet, damp or dry can cause dramatic colour shifts. I think the best we can hope for is to get something within the ball park.

Cheers and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 1:01pm
Total Posts: 204 | Joined: Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm



Frank;
I have a drawing I will send you via e-mail. The boat only had 20mm stern, and twin .50's . During this time period they bummed some MK 15 torpedoes, from a Destoryer. That is why they protrude from the tubes so far. As far as I know, no "extra" armament was added to 61prior to her becoming a gunboat.

If you want to go for the time period in the photo, you will notice the broken windshield, and to the right is what looks like a gash in the plexiglass. Ken told me one night he was out on night patrol off the Russells with Bill Kriener, Kriener was lead boat(PT 60, I believe), a Rufe flew up their wake and dropped a bomb between the two boats. Kriener was wounded in this engagement, and that broken windshield, and another fragment gashing the windshield is the result, also look at the cabin windshield, it has what looks like that waterproof putty, our Dads used to used on our house windows in the 50's and 60's.....do you remember that stuff?
Funny thing, Ken told me that plane was so low, he could see all the rivets and screws underneath!
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 1:05pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



So I guess the bottom, bottom line on colors is; use whatever shade you think might be correct - on some day, under some light conditions, at some point in the boat's life - the color you use would probably have been spot-on.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 1:14pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



I have PT-61 drawings that Wayne Traxel had sent to me, which I would like to go by, providing I decide to do this boat. Thanks Ted, I look forward to seeing the drawings you have. I am still leaning towards doing PT-66 with that funky Camo, if I can only feel comfortable what the hell colors they were..............



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 1:31pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



I'm a little confused here...

The 61 is...clearly gray in the Prescott color photos. No doubt about that.

Don't know why there's even a question about it..?



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 6:19pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Frank;
The drawings I speak of, were given to me by Wayne. I suggest, you contact him as to the color of PT 61, as I have always suspected Ken's color concoction was really with PT 61. He went to the Army quatermasters on Guadalcanal, well this is a time spot as the Army came in way after the Marines. So, because of the photos, at Searlesville: May 1943. Ken was Exec in these photos, Joe Kernal was the Skipper. When Ken took over PT 61, they went for a quick "re-fit" at Tulagi, then moved back up. This is where the "NEW" paint job took place.
I believe, the color Wayne painted his PT 48 model, is what was actually painted on PT 61. I am sure by now Wayne will concur. I suggest you ask him about the mixture, as his boat is dead on!
Take care,
TED
P.S. As reference, Al has a photo of PT 48 at Bau Island, Rendova in his book, which I date as Sept- Dec 1943. One can clearly see, she is painted Navy Green, with launch racks, MK 13 torpedoes, a 37mm on bow, There was also a 20mm on stern and SO-A Radar.



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 7:14pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



The 1/24th scale plans that Frank and Ted have are indeed those of PT-61 that I drew in 1994. The drawing was based on the recollections of Ken Prescott and his Kodachrome color slides that Ken so graciously loaned me back in 1984 when I was building my PT 48 model. At the time Ken provided the paint formula of 4 parts grey, 1 part white and 1 part Dark Blue as the color of PT-61. He went on to say that after assuming command of PT-48, he used the same formula for 61 to paint the 48. This is how my model of 48 came to be the color it ended up. In 1984 Pactra Military Colors of four parts grey, 1 part white and 1 part Navy blue were mixed and applied to the model. After painting the model it looked like just another grey boat in the shop lighting. However when moving the boat into the summer sun, blue sky and green shrubbery the boat appeared the same color as the PT-61 Kodachrome slides.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 11:31pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am



Thanks Wayne and Ted. Wayne, I don't think I have ever seen a photo of your boat. Can you post here, or send it to me via my E-Mail.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 21, 2012 - 1:37am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Color RC PT- 48 model August 1984. Paint Formula as per Ken Prescott PT-61, 4 parts grey, 1part white and 1 part dark blue First Picture is what the 48 model color appeared in my shop and in sunlight on the drive way.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Wayne%20Traxel/Image77_zps5c239b02.jpg[/image]

The operating photos show the boat different color shades based on sunlight, overcast conditions and shubbery reflected on the boat while operating on the pond. There is probably some fading too from these 28 year old photos.
When building PT-48 model Ken mentioned using the PT-61 paint formula on his new command PT-48.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Wayne%20Traxel/Image78-1_zps48c78738-1.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Wayne%20Traxel/RCPT-48September1984_zps64c79e83.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Wayne%20Traxel/RCPT-48Sept84-1.jpg[/image]

Hope this helps

Wayne

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Dec 21, 2012 - 9:31am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am



You know Wayne, you would make things much easier if you just sent me the boat, lol.... Looks green in the sunlight, but I think you said Gray indoors. Did PT-61 have the smoke generator Wayne.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 21, 2012 - 10:20am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



You know Wayne, you would make things much easier if you just sent me the boat, lol.... Looks green in the sunlight, but I think you said Gray indoors. Did PT-61 have the smoke generator Wayne.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 21, 2012 - 10:20am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Wayne the boat looks wonderful in the water, a fine job. Although i was going to keep this to myself, I have decided to have Stan do the boat as PT-61, in honor of Ken Prescott. I just feel that PT-66 is a difficult thing to paint when you are not sure of the colors, and did not want to guess. Thanks Wayne for all of the information. I need a drawing for the NAVY type smoke generator that PT-61 had, so I can have Stan scratch it out if anyone has one.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 23, 2012 - 12:20pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Wayne the boat looks wonderful in the water, a fine job. Although i was going to keep this to myself, I have decided to have Stan do the boat as PT-61, in honor of Ken Prescott. I just feel that PT-66 is a difficult thing to paint when you are not sure of the colors, and did not want to guess. Thanks Wayne for all of the information. I need a drawing for the NAVY type smoke generator that PT-61 had, so I can have Stan scratch it out if anyone has one.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 23, 2012 - 12:20pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Hi Frank,
I went to the HNSA website and found the Smoke and Chemical Munitions handbook and found these photos. Maybe you can use them? Jerry

[url]http://www.hnsa.org/doc/smoke/index.htm[/url]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/cover2.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/fig07.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/fig08.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/fig11.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/fig09.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/fig13.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/fig14.jpg[/image]

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Dec 23, 2012 - 1:33pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Thanks Jerry, I am pretty sure PT-61 had the smoke generator as in photo four. I know Stan will be happy if I provide him photos or drawings. I hate that generator, but Ted and Wayne both tell me this is what she had on her stern in those great color shots of PT-61 that we have all seen. I must be correct when having Stan build her............



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 23, 2012 - 1:50pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Glad to help Frank! Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Dec 23, 2012 - 8:08pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm