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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Armor Plate Detail
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For those building Italeri's new 109 kit, Dave noted that the port plate was cut short. I added some perspective views for clarity and moved the armor from the bridge / chart house page to its own page:
[url]http://www.pt103.com/PT_Boat_Components_Armor.html[/url]
As far as I know, only PTs 103-150 had bridge armor installed of the 103-196 & 314-367 series.
On Dick and Al's drawing DVD, a 1943 drawing for PTs 352-355 & 374-377 shows armor plate for the fuel tanks on the outside of the hull from the outer gun'l clamp to just above the chine guard. It ran from about frame 35 to about frame 50/51. The armor was 9 sections of 2' plates side by side. Does anyone have a picture showing this armor installed? Those with the DVD can find the drawings on ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00514.pdf and 00513.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 6:14am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Jeff;
Wow I never knew that!
I know PT 308 RON 22 had these fuel tank armor plates as they were still on her, when I "found" her at Timmons boat yard in the late 1980's. They were fixed to the hull with carriage bolts, through the hull. But I never knew ELCO's carried this exterior armor. Thanks for sharing.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 6:42am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
That's cool Ted, got this from [url]http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05308.htm[/url]:
[green]The La Dee Da, which was unaltered and was still 78 feet long and in 1946 stripped condition, was found beached on the bank at Franklin Timmons boatyard in Dagsboro, DE, and was originally targeted for restoration. The effort was put to an end when the property owner seized the boat and had it destroyed, because it was deemed an eyesore for the new condo community being built.[/green]
Sad... but good job trying to rescue her.
Interesting that she had that armor, it must have been heavy as heck. Was it still holding on well?
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 8:45am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Outstanding Jeff. A great look-see without the cabin/bridge structure.
DIck . . .
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 12:23pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Thank you as always Dick. If it weren't for you...
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 3:30pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
So...that little hole in the port cockpit bulkhead behind JFK in those famous photos is a "lift hole" for that piece of armor -- not an empty bolt or fastener hole for the searchlight pintle mount.
You learn something new every day. Fascinating.
Thanks, Jeff.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 4:45pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
I can see the lift hole but there's also a large hole at the edge of the photo that looks empty. That's where the mount would be secured by looking at the drawings. Do you guys see it the same way I do?
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 8:53pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
I think this photo shows it better. The mounting hole for the search light mount is right above JFK's hand. It does not appear that there is anything in the hole and you don't see the mount on the other side of the armor plate.
Dave
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/JFKPT-109cockpit.jpg[/IMAGE]
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 18, 2012 - 9:04pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
I know we're really dealing in minutia, here, guys, but...
OK...so...the little (obvious) hole in the port cockpit bulkhead in the famous JFK photo IS a bolt hole for the searchlight pintle arm...and NOT a "lift hole?"
I've always thought it probably WAS a hole for the searchlight pintle arm, but...with Jeff's CAD drawings, I..thought the hole was illustrated and explained (as a "lift hole").
If the obvious hole ISN'T a "lift hole," I really can't see the actual "lift hole" in that photo -- unless its as a tiny, almost indistinguisable black speck on the cockpit bulkhead.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Nov 19, 2012 - 8:03am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
I've no idea what that large hole is for, didn't notice it until you guys pointed it out. That's kind of embarrassing, I've stared at that picture often enough... It's too large for the 3 searchlight bracket mounting bolts. I thought it might be for the searchlight power cable, it's right about where the searchlight bracket was, but as far as I know the cable went along the outside of the armor and fed into the control panel on the bracket.
Here's another shot showing the 2 holes, at least I think the small hole is a hole and not an image flaw. The corner padding is an interesting detail, I've not come across a drawing showing it nor do the plate drawings show holes for its mounting:
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/PT_Boat_Elco_103_Class_Armor_JFK.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 19, 2012 - 8:49am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Jeff . . .
Do you think it could be an empty hole for the searchlight bracket? The top furthest forward of the three attachment points?
Dick . . .
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 20, 2012 - 8:42am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
That's what I've always assumed it was...
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Nov 20, 2012 - 9:09am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
It could be a searchlight bracket mounting hole but it seems way too big. The bracket drawing shows it was held on with 1/4-20 machine screws... I dunno.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 20, 2012 - 11:24am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
I was thinking about that bracket hole again today and wondering if it is empty. It sure look like there's no screw there. I've always assumed the search light mount was removed based on this empty hole. Thoughts?
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 25, 2012 - 7:16am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
It might be the searchlight bracket mounting hole, what looks like a large hole could be the countersink for the mounting screw. I tried matching the camera angle with limited success, and made the screw head black for visibility. Also on the image is a blowup of the holes:
[image]http://pt103.com/images/asst/jfkCockpitMatch.jpg[/image]
I wouldn't bet my firstborn on it but it is a good possibility.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 25, 2012 - 10:15am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Interesting! It does confirm my thought that the mount was out of the picture. Thanks for doing that Jeff. You got me thinking I need to not only include it on the Italeri build but go back and install it on my 1/72 effort.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 25, 2012 - 9:24pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
You're welcome David. Do you mean add the holes or the bracket? The hole looks empty to me, a painted over flat head screw would blend in with the plate and be hard to see in the image. Although that's not proof that the bracket was removed. As a guess, I'd say the bracket was gone.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 26, 2012 - 4:39am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
I was thinking about the horn shaped mount. The image of a possible screw head is causing me to think the hole might not be empty. Your drawing shows that the mount would be outside the field of vision too. But it looks deep into the armor plate so I'm not sure.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 26, 2012 - 5:27am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Jeff . . .
Nice overlaying and view manipulation, darn near nuts-on. The Armor detail ( ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00517.pdf ) states 9/32" bore with countersink on reverse side (the side we can see). It doesn't specify the countersink, either 80 or 100 degree for screw head. There appears to be no screw, simply a hole to my tired old eyes.
Please see my attempt to create similar images to Jeff's.
Dick . . .
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Armor-01.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Armor-02.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 11:56am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
OH MY GAWD!
IMHO Guys this whole discussion is getting to be a little over the top. Seriously fixating on a screw hole??? Wow, I thought there were other PT boats in the US Navy besides PT-109. I guess from following this thread one would never know. I know you want to be as accurate as you can be in building your latest new PT109 model, but c'mon guys this is taking things just a little off the deep end! What I really want to know is what exact shade of GREEN the screw was painted? Now there is the mystery of the century!
Hah Hah (Poke Poke)
Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 12:31pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Yeah, Jerry. . . But what if it had been a hole in a HIGGINS cockpit?????
lol
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 12:46pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry . . . .
You're just jealous because you don't have the wealth of documented technical data on those strange looking Higgins boats. Or do you - - - and just haven't shared drawings, publication, manuals, so on and so on on the Higgins. hummmmmm . . .
Hah Hah (Poke Poke)
As far as Jeff and I, its the PT series 103 thru 196 (and you know how I despise the 109 posts), and yes I believe the 109 was the only PT Boat to see service by a part-time. I mean a short-time skipper, who got his feet wet then left to the others to finish the war out on a deck instead of behind a desk.
On Higgins all we have are couple really, really short reels of microfilm and a couple of documents graciously shared by Al and post on my website to share with all.
Will's suggestion/comment, proves out - Oh, oh, oh yes, what about that hole on the (PT-305) Higgins turrets that we discussed ad nauseam 
Hah Hah (Poke Poke)
All the best, and have a good one,
Dick . . . .
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 1:04pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Never mind the dam holes in the wall, I need to find the sunglasses that Kennedy is wearing. Now that's more important than trying to figure out what a few screw holes are. Just fill in the holes with some putty, paint it green ( providing we can agree which shade) and let's move on to find something else we can discuss until Christmas, poke, poke.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 1:41pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Never mind the dam holes in the wall, I need to find the sunglasses that Kennedy is wearing. Now that's more important than trying to figure out what a few screw holes are. Just fill in the holes with some putty, paint it green ( providing we can agree which shade) and let's move on to find something else we can discuss until Christmas, poke, poke.
The EXACT shade of GREEN for each PT boat was SPMIY&A*
Cheers
;<)
*South Pacific Mix It Yourself & Apply
"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"
Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 2:04pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm
I like that idea Pete.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 2:38pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
That's the 565-624 armor drawing Dick, not sure what that big hole was used for. Maybe the electric feed? The 103-162 drawing doesn't show it... ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00510.pdf. I dug around a bit but didn't find any drawings that gave a clue as to what it was for.
Not such a little thing if it shows that the searchlight bracket was possibly removed. Besides, it's the little details that are fun. :p
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 4:22pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
OK OK OK
You guys are free to go on and on and on and on about every excruciating detail of the PT109 for as long as you want to, but you are right I would rather see a discussion about the 78 foot Higgins! (After all they are the only ones still around!) I am going to look around and see if I can find that missing screw from the "JFK in the cockpit" photo. I think I saw it around here somewhere....
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 5:07pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Jeff . . . .
Picky, picky, picky the image has been modified, yes to 103 series. Man, a guy can't get a break around here. See photo below.
Jerry . . . .
Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, 78 foot Higgins, discussion, out of the last 20 post topics 8 had Higgins discussion. That might even be the ratio of all Elco boats verses Higgins boats, of course I'm just guessing. You do understand, you're the Higgins expert and I think it falls into your hands to spur on some more Higgins topics. No I don't mean to post more GREAT Videos of the 658 cruising the Willamette River and rattling the nearby glass windows ! ! ! !
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Armor-03.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 5:33pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Wouldn't it be really weord if that mystery hole was nothing more than a hole that was drilled in the wrong place and then a new hole was drilled in the proper position above it?
Trying to figure out the nitty gritty details is what makes history do interesting.
Cheers
"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"
Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 6:06pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm
(Dave walks to the podium)
"Hi, my name is Dave and I'm an AMS (Advanced Modeling Syndrome) addict."
(Members of the forum sitting in the audience)
"Hi Dave"
(Dave responds)
"It all started when my dad took me to see the movie, PT-109...."
Wow, I leave the room for a minute and you guys just lose it and apparently engaged in some sort of grab ass exhibition. And Dick, accusing the president of being part time? Seriously? A nice lady from the Kennedy library sent me links to President Kennedy's naval career which I poured through while you were all poking each other. Did you guys know he went to Sub Chaser school after returning to the states before being checked into the hospital for the duration of his career. For God's sake don't tell Garth! Dick, as much as you hate the story, I love it.
I'm just having fun with you all. But I do find the history of the 109 boat fascinating and as a model builder I'm always searching for every detail and clue I can find. It's like a detective novel but real.
Okay, you can all go back to poking each other. Seriously, you guys need a hobby! LOL.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 8:48pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
They do have a hobby David; it's taking pokes at each other.
It is fascinating to try and discovr what little things of historical interest are or what they were used for. Many times it's those little things that can shed a lt of light on something else.
Cheers
"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"
Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 10:05pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm
Dave . . .
I hope you're not one of those who believe everything they read :}
Just look at the story of the torpedo and the depth charge, need I say more. I just wonder how many more version there are of that same detailed story told once, then told again. which one is true and how much embellishment. A good story can never be told without at least some embellishment but in the case of Kennedy, a whole lot.
The back issue was a chronic condition well before the 109, well, as the family story goes.
I'm glade you are so into the whole JFK thing, I'm just not. I just can't be convinced he and his short time roll as PT skipper was any better or any more intriguing then any other boat, skipper or crew member, specially the ones that never came home or had any worse then a sore back. Including the untold stories of the PT men who spent the entire war in a POW camp on the Philippines. WIth that in mind the whole JFK story is rather pale in comparison.
Poke, poke, poke,
No offense intended, All the best Dave,
Dick . . .
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 11:07pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
All this talk about PT-109 has once again gotten the fur on my back standing up. I can fully understand that some folks ( Dick included) that just do not like Kennedy, and can not stomach the fact that so much attention was given to one PT BOAT during the entire Pacific campaign. I sit back and often wonder how many people during WWII even knew what a PT Boat was, even some 70 years ago. When they did, the press took full advantage of building up this boat to be something like the weapon of the war that was going to win it all. Tale tales of the boats doing 70 knots were thrown around the Newspapers often, and the David and Goliath story was born.
It was at a time when we were getting spanked by the Germans, and the Japanese early in the war. The PT Boats were just what was needed to build faith in our Navy, and show the folks back home that we could win with this type of craft. Tall tales were often thrown around by the PT BOATERS during and after the war. Claims of torpedoes destroying the Japanese Navy were proven false, and it wasn't until the boats became gun boats that they were really doing a monumental job at there. I don't think anyone loves these boats and the men who served on them more than I do, and I can fully understand the dislike by PT Boat men, when it came to Kennedy and PT-109. Over the past 35 years, I have listen to these men, some hating the PT-109 story, and some having no problem with it.
Like it or not you guys, PT-109 did happen, and men were killed on that patrol. Men did swim to the Islands, they did become shipwrecked, and they did suffer during the ordeal. It was brought to light mostly because of Kennedy's Father, who had a pretty good hold on the press in those days. These stories surfaced, not because of JFK, but because of the father, who felt it would be great for Jack when he returned home, and the whole political Kennedy machine. In fact, one has to admire Kennedy for staying in the Pacific, and getting another boat, when by all the Navy rules, he could have been sent home. In having several conversations with crew members of PT-109, I mean they really loved this guy, had nothing but praise for him, although I do think that Mr. Thom should have gotten more applause then he did.
I have talked to many crew members over the years that had the same admiration for their Skippers, so this is something that was not uncommon, if you were good to your men, which Kennedy was. They just happened to be on a boat where their Skipper would become President of the United States, and PT-109 would be thrust into the spot-light many times over the coming years. As a young boy of ten years old, I too was brought face to face with a boat I knew nothing about, by watching PT-109 on TV. The boats, to me at least were bigger than life, and I wanted one so bad, I could taste it. It was because of Kennedy and this famous boat that my whole life changed, and I would dedicate my life to these men and their wooden boats. As a middle aged guy, I am still just as excited to see these boats as I was 46 years ago. PT-109 like it or not was one of the most singe reasons why anyone even knew what a PT Boat was, and it was Kennedy and his crew that did that.
The Kennedy Exhibit I will be doing in January, will mark the first time ever that i have done a full and complete Kennedy exhibit, and I hope that when people see it, they too might walk away with the same feeling I had years ago, and will fully enjoy the PT BOAT section of that exhibit. Trust me guys, I know there is more to the PT BOATS then just PT-109, but it just happens to be a big part of PT BOAT HISTORY.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 4:16am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Hi Dick,
No, I'm not one who believes everything he reads. But I have to tell you reading through the articles of people who were around JFK you can start to put the pieces together and get a better understanding of what kind of skipper and person he was. There is no doubt that his family had influence but when you read through his records you can see that he didn't roll with the flow but like his brother worked diligently to put himself into a position to be a PT skipper, get in harms way, and after that still tried to remain engaged until health issues forced him out of service. Also intriguing are the many articles and interviews with former crew and people that were with Kennedy during his short time in the Pacific.
I completely understand that the book I just picked up on Amazon was written during the elections and there is potential for a lot of bias. I've never heard of the book until Drew mentioned it. I'll be looking for any first hand accounts that give a glimpse of life on the PT's and this particular boat, which like Frank, caused me to fall in love with these boats so many years ago in front of the big screen.
Yes, this particular boat, PT-109, has my full attention but I've really enjoyed learning more about other boats and crew along the way. Most recently being introduced to Mr. Frank and PT-505. What an amazing story that is.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 4:53am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
For anyone interested, try a book called THE SEARCH FOR JFK. It is sort of a warts-and-all story of his life.
Also, does anyone know of a book or other detailed account of Murray Prestons's MOH run to rescue the downed pilot in Wasile Bay? I know AT LOSE QUARTERS has an account of the action, but it has always seemed to me to be worthy of a more comprehensive look at the mission and the men who took the risk.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 7:30am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Thanks WIll . . . .
Uncle, uncle, uncle . . . . OMG!
Someone needs to get off their sop box - what a load of horse doo doo ! ! ! ! I hope your exhibit goes off well.
Dick . . .
PS: I never ever said I was a Kennedy hater, just the opposite. Its the propagation and the never ending embellishment of the 109 and its skipper (not the man). There are hundreds of boat and thousand of men ignored for the easy propaganda. That's what is so sad. Unlike many, it wasn't the movie of the 109 that brought about my interests and love of PT boats, It was in the 50's with They Were Expendable, and the sporadic mention of PT boat service in movies and books like An American Guerrilla in the Philippines, and even the movie with the beautiful scene of early Elco boats rescuing cruise ship passengers in Crash Dive. I didn't see the 109 movie until later when I was out of school.
Sorry, now I'm getting off my high horse I rode in on!
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 9:57am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
All of this would not be an issue if we all just agree to talk exclusively about the 78 foot Higgins boats...all the time. And whenever there is any type of subject being discussed, immediately make a comparison to a 78 foot Higgins boat and how the two subjects might be related. Then all of these disagreements will be over! Problem solved! Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 11:40am
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
You are cleaver, I must give you that and an easy way to discuss for favorite boats. Amen, Jerry.
SH
Posted By: Hadly | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 11:49am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Jerry, you are an evil influence.....lol
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 12:28pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
I decided to come down off my soap box because God forbid should anyone on this board dare to give an opinion or thought that everyone doesn't agree with. This always happens when a discussion begins with PT-109, from a screw hole that went way beyond where it should have, to Dick calling my comments basically a bunch of do do. With this being said, we will now turn the discussion over to the HUCKINS BOAT, where we might find some screw holes to try and identify. I feel like I should take my ball and go home, but I love a good discussion, so bring it on, but please let's change the subject matter.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 1:08pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Jerry hang in there!! If I would have examined Higgins PT 242 closely I could have found lots of holes that I could not identify where and when they were made and for what reason. Bullet and otherwise. It seems trivial to me but don't class me as a PT modeler
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 1:14pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
I hope no one minds me throwing my two cents in. Jerry and CJ. How soon people forget, this was early mentioned by someone, the big discussion of the hole in the Higgins gun turret it had hundreds and hundreds of readers and comments. But since "you know who" wasn't sitting at the helm of a Higgins, the discussion stayed nice and simple and to the point and about Higgins only. The nicer, cleaner less embellished boat. If I'm not mistaken wasn't it a Higgins they hauled around for "you know who" Inauguration parade.
Posted By: Black Ops | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 1:57pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
OH GREAT!!
OMG! Now you have done it Frank!!! You tried to fool us!!! You know Jack Kennedy was skipper of PT 101 RON 4, and as you know it was a Huckins! Hey you know, now that I think of it, I have a photo of him in the cockpit of 101, He is in Khaki's and a blue reefer jacket, just before he went over board in the inter coastal waterway in Jacksonville or New Bern, N.C! I enlarged the photo and behind him you can just make out what looks like drilled and tapped holes in the side of the cockpit, the holes are slighlt off set, a large one is in the middle, and they sort of look like this :0 )
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 2:27pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
That is too funny Ted! Frank you are right, and as far as I am concerned it is all in good fun. PT Boats Forever! Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 2:47pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
I agree Jerry, lets just stay with the 78' Higgins!!!
Bob
Posted By: Bob | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 2:59pm
Total Posts: 181 | Joined: Jun 8, 2010 - 6:21pm
Jerry, please post a few photos of PT-658, showing some holes that we can identify, or at the very least discuss. I know for sure that Kennedy was never behind the wheel of this boat, so we might be safe. All kidding aside, I took a deep breath, stood back, and I am now ready for the next discussion, by the way hello C.J., always nice to hear from you......
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 4:56pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Let me get this straight, there were other boats than the 109 and 59?[:-laughing-:]
Posted By: JBG327 | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 6:35pm
Total Posts: 74 | Joined: Sep 29, 2012 - 2:40pm
This started as such a nice little discussion about the armor and some features on PT-109. Then all of the sudden everyone went postal.
Okay, I'm a detail and accuracy freak. I admit it. But the beauty of a forum is that I can post a question to a group of knowledgeable people... and friends.. and get help with an answer. The other beautiful thing about a forum like this is that if you're not interested you can move on to the next subject.
I just hope we can all keep it civil. You know if we all lived in the same city I'm betting we would all be hanging out at the diner every Saturday morning and pulling each others chain until the sun went down.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 6:49pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm