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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: Checkerboard Fanny - Squadron No.?
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Jerry had sent me a few shots of some Higgins PT BOATS. I am posting one, that I have never seen before. She is in dry-dock, with a checked fanny. Can anyone confirm as to a Squadron, which Jerry thinks was Ron 15.

Frank


[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/RON15-Drydock-checkerboard.jpg[/image]





Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Aug 18, 2012 - 3:45pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Frank;
I agree with Jerry, she has all the earmarks of a RON 15 boat, possible at Bizerte or somtime around Salerno invasion. This boat has SO-A Radar, Torpedo tubes, Depth Charges Port and Stbd and a 20mm on stern. RON 15 did not get 40mm's until early in 1944.
Take care,
TED

Note: PT 202 recieved a punctured fuel tank and several holes in the hull as a rusult of RON 15's boats first tangle with F-lighters NW of Stromboli 25 July 1943. She is not mentioned in ACQ again on patrol, until 18/19 Feb 1944.



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 19, 2012 - 9:16am
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Frank and Ted,

Jerry had another photo of a boat in drydock, but it was taken bow on. Do you think the photos could have been taken at the same time ? I think the boat was the 204, Aggie Maru.

I agree she is a Ron 15 boat, but I've never seen a photo of a checkerboard transom. We need a 204 veteran !

Steve

Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Aug 19, 2012 - 3:45pm
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am



Steve;
Maybe 204, my 202 was just based on whats written and an educated guess. More important, what does it mean? We now know for aeriel recongnition purposes the bow tips were painted yellow and the stern deck last 2 feet were painted red. But, was this for ASR purposes, or Squadron/Boat I.D. purposes???
As you said, we need a 204 Vet.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 20, 2012 - 6:03am
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



It is possible that it was easier for a Crew member to spot their own boats in a nest. Just a thought, as I know they did this by numbering the radar dome's on some boats, plus different shades. I could be way off base here.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Aug 20, 2012 - 10:37am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Hi Frank,
I decided I could post these pics to let everybody else in on the discussion. I got these from Doug Prentice, his Dad was a TM1/c on PT204 in RON15. Jerry

Unknown checkerboard boat. Does anybody know what boat this is?
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/RON15HigginsPTinDrydocksterncheckerboard2.jpg[/image]

PT204 "Aggie Maru" in drydock, possibly (per Steve's guess) the same boat as the checkerboard? The name had something to do with the saying " The f----'d up crew of the Aggie Maru!"
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204AggieMaruindrydock.jpg[/image]

PT204 in port shows aft end, but I cant see any checkerboard
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204RON15mooredinBastiaTM1cPrentice.jpg[/image]

PT203 "Shark Mouth"
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT203RON15mooredinBizerte.jpg[/image]

PT206 moored
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT206takenfromPT204inBastia.jpg[/image]

PT207 "Zebra" (Notice the numeral 7 on the bow)
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT207Zebra.jpg[/image]

PT215 "Zombie" moored just astern of Dave Prentice posing on PT204's new 40mm Bofors gun.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT215ZombieandPT204Davegoofson40mmBoforsinBizerte.jpg[/image]

I dont know what RON15 boat this is! It looks like it is named "Thunder Byrd" or something like that. I wonder if anybody knows what number boat this is?
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/RON15HigginsPTThunderByrdmaybe.jpg[/image]

PT204 with extra 30caliber (I think?) MG mounted to torpedo tube. Note the Rockets stored in a box amidships. Interesting photo!
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204targetpracticewith30calnoterocketrack1.jpg[/image]

PT204 pulls into Bastia
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204RON15idlesintoBastiaTM1cDavePrentice.jpg[/image]

From RON15 Unit History by LCDR Fred Rosen
29th November ’43: PTs 211 and 204 patrolling out of Bastia ran into gale force winds and were forced to return to harbor. Outside of the break water, suddenly an E Boat looms up in Clifford’s face. The 204 greeted the E Boat with a long burst of the 50s – received a few achtungs in return – then rammed each other – 204’s bow needed extensive repairs – we are sure the E Boat limped all the way home. This action interrupted the E Boats laying mines off the entrance to Bastia Harbor. Due to the weather the PTs could not pursue the heavier E Boats, and retired into Bastia Harbor.

PT204 damaged by collision with German S-Boat
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204damagedhullfromcollision.jpg[/image]

PT204 being repaired after collision with S-Boat
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204viewofRON15boatmajorhulldamagetobow.jpg[/image]

PT204 fwd crews quarters, note mosquito netting over rack opening. The stenciled writing says "The difficult we will do immediately, the impossible may take a little longer"
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewsberthing2.jpg[/image]

PT204 crews quarters looking fwd and port
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewsberthing1.jpg[/image]

PT204 crew berthing looking fwd.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewsberthing4.jpg[/image]

PT204 crew berthing looking aft towards Wardroom WTD
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewsberthing5.jpg[/image]

PT204 Crews Berthing looking aft to galley
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewsberthing6.jpg[/image]

PT204 crew on bow, Dave Prentice is the one on the bottom row 2nd from right
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewmenonbowinBastiaTM1cDavePrentice2ndfromrightbottomrow.jpg[/image]

PT204 crewman paints Nazi flag kill marker on windscreen
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewmanpaintsNazikillmarkonwindscreeninBastia.jpg[/image]

PT204 crew on bow
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewonboatinBastia2.jpg[/image]

PT204 crew checks out Scotti 20mm gun
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewmennplayoncapturedItalian20mm2.jpg[/image]

PT204 crew checking out the Scotti 20mm gun on tripod mount
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/PT204crewmennplayoncapturedItalian20mm.jpg[/image]


Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Aug 21, 2012 - 4:08pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



I enlarged the image of the checkerboard transom posted on: Aug 21, 2012 - 7:08pm. To me it almost looks like that checkerboard is painted on fabric which was then stretched over the transom. There apears to be some sort of loop at the top port corner and below the waterline are what look a lot like wrinkles. I wonder if this was indeed a painted fabric sheet used as a recognition panel of some sort?

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Aug 21, 2012 - 5:02pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



Yeah, it crossed my mind that the checkerboard could be some kind of fabric cover, although the bottom contour seems pretty much exact to the lines of the hull. Even so, never seen anything like it before,


Also - Could the print of the "Mystery Boat" be flopped? Maybe we are looking at it backwards.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 21, 2012 - 6:16pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Hi Will,
I flopped the picture just now and noticed something that makes me think the original view is correct. The hatch to the Bosun's Locker on the bow deck is only on the Starboard side and not the port, if you "flop" the picture, then the hatch would be on the wrong side. Good idea though....Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Aug 21, 2012 - 6:47pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Oh, well.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 21, 2012 - 7:46pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



I doubt this is has anything to do with any type of identification for our planes, however along those same lines, I remember when the B-17 Bombers would take to the air, they would form up on one of the planes, that would be funny painted, sometime a bright color, so others could join up in formation on this plane. Could this have been the same type thing, and was used so other boats could see them at night, and not plow into her ass end. I know I am grasping at straws here, but just thought.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Aug 22, 2012 - 12:07pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Jerry,
These are great photos, showing many details. I noticed the photo of the fantail, with the 40, shows what looks like fuel compartment vents. They are aft of the fuel compartment, our plan only shows one vent outlet next to the stowage compartment hatch. I wonder what the ones aft are..
I also noticed what looked like a deadlight in the large engine room hatch, never noticed that before. Its on our plan.
The interior shots were great. First time I have seen these light fixtures in the crews quarters. What kind of fixtures does the 658 use in the same area?
Do you have any photos of the lazerette or aft store room on these earlier series boats?

Bob

Posted By: Bob | Posted on: Aug 22, 2012 - 5:46pm
Total Posts: 181 | Joined: Jun 8, 2010 - 6:21pm



Jerry,

Those are some great photos, many thanks to Doug Prentice for letting us see them.

I find the photo of the 30 cal/ rockets very interesting. Never have I seen a pic of the rockets, which I assume are the 4.5" beach rockets fired from the wooden racks. Also it looks like the 30 is actually being fired ! A real action photo. The man on the far left, I believe, is Gene Clifford, boat Captain of the 204.




Steve

Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Aug 23, 2012 - 10:45am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am



There is something weird looking about that .30-cal MG on the 204.....


Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 23, 2012 - 11:08am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm




Looks maybe like a 20mm without the barrel spring shroud ? ? ? ?


[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/20mm.jpg[/image]

Maybe we can get Jerry to scan just that area only in a high resolution and send it to me

Dick . . .



Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Aug 23, 2012 - 12:09pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Yeah, it does have a 20mm look to it. You're right, a sharper image would help. Fascinating. Just when you think there is nothing new.....


Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 23, 2012 - 12:47pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



It's a Breda Model 37.

[url]http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/breda-machine-gun.html[/url]

Al



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Aug 23, 2012 - 2:22pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm




Here is the photo with the Ita Breda Machine Gun superimposed above the actual:

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/20mm-2.jpg[/image]


Dick . . .



Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Aug 23, 2012 - 3:40pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Thanks, Al.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 23, 2012 - 10:59pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Just curious as to why they would mount an Italian gun to the boat. Where would they continue to stock shells for this gun, unless it was universal ammo................



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Aug 24, 2012 - 1:36am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Frank;
I am sure this was mounted just for test and evaluation purposes. But if you think about it, you could probably "aquire" a 100 round box of 8MM ammo for a few cartons of Chesterfields and a box of Hersey bars.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 24, 2012 - 2:51pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



I bet you wouldn't even need to trade...I bet the ammo was sitting around the Italian naval facilities or warehouses that were captured.

I find it interesting that the gun was mounted pre-Spring 1944. The photos of the build up after Spring 1944 show .30 MG's mounted to the boat behind the roll-off racks fitted to the boats for Elba, So. France, etc. Great pictures!

As for the checkerboard - the 204 was the lead boat on a lot of 3 boat patrols, so it would make sense to try it out on her rear end. There are more than one mention of Ron15 boats getting lost or out of formation on night patrols.

Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net


Posted By: newsnerd99 | Posted on: Aug 27, 2012 - 7:59am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Not sure how well the checkerboad stern would show up, especially at night.

I've looked at all my pics of other Ron 15 boats and don't see any unusual stern markings on any of them. So far, this is a pretty cool mystery - lol

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 27, 2012 - 10:41am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



I asked Charlie Dewey, who was Ron 15s civilian Radar Tech, about the checkerboard pattern. He didn't remember anything like that, and I know he sailed on many of the boats out of La Maddalena, Sardinia.

Yea, Will, a nice little mystery.

Steve

Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Aug 27, 2012 - 1:42pm
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am



As far as the Italian gun on the boat, I wonder why it was added, unless there was a short supply of our own .30 caliber stingers. I am not sure if any other weapons of the enemy were ever added to the PT BOATS on other boats, as I never really looked for it. That checkerboard fanny might just be what i said in my earlier post, a way to form up on the lead boat in the dark, a great mystery though.............



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Aug 28, 2012 - 1:42am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Could it be the checkerboard pattern was a tarp of some sort used just to let other boats know there was a boat in the dry dock?



Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Aug 28, 2012 - 4:49am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am



Maybe it's the squadron "party boat".

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Aug 28, 2012 - 7:07am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



For now, until proven otherwise, I am going with the formation Identification idea, as stated PT 204 was a formation lead boat. This makes the most sense.
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Aug 29, 2012 - 2:35pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am