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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
PT 493 Guns
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Hi
Just wanted to mention my father was Captain of the PT 493 and all the boats in Squadron 33 had the same armament. They had more guns than any previous PT. The forward of the 3 20mm was what they called an Accy Dussy. There was a 50cal .mounted alongside on each side of the 20mm barrel. This gave the crewmen the control of 3 barrels at once. Also don't forget the 2 30 cal. that my father could fire in the cockpit. And there were 2 50 cal on the port side between the foward part of the forward torpedo
If I can be of futher assistance please let me know. I have pictures
Regards
Don Brown
Donald Brown
Posted By: Donald Brown | Posted on: Feb 28, 2007 - 5:35pm
Total Posts: 3 | Joined: Feb 3, 2007 - 5:11am
I've seen some hints of this in a few photos, mainly the 490 with MacArthur on board. One of the 20mm had a 30 cal attached but you could only see a little of it. Another photo showed something between the port torpedo and the chart room. I would really like to see the photos. Are they e-mailable? If not let me know what you need and I'll get it to you.
thanks alot,
Ed
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Feb 28, 2007 - 5:50pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
I'd like to see those photos too.
Ray
Posted By: Ray Wilbur | Posted on: Mar 1, 2007 - 3:45am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
There are photos in a couple of book that show the 490 and the 525 boats with MacArthur and in those you can see a .50 cal mounted along side the forward-most 20 mm. It looks like the have a curved ammo box holder to let them use the ammo boxes from the .50 cal turrets. I've not been able to find a photo of 2 .50s mounted. I also found a photo of 523 with a .30 cal in the rear "corner " of the cockpit, 1 on each side, but cannot see how they were mounted. Any insight you can provide would be most appreciated.
Also, did the 493 (or others in Ron 33, carry depth charges? How many? exact location?
Thanks,
Ed
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Mar 1, 2007 - 4:09am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Hi Ed,
If you give your emal address I can send you some pictures. Or you can call me at 781-749-7812.
Regards
Donald Brown
Donald Brown
Posted By: Donald Brown | Posted on: Mar 1, 2007 - 5:16pm
Total Posts: 3 | Joined: Feb 3, 2007 - 5:11am
It is ducati650@comcast.net
Thanks. That would be great. I'll call you.
Ed
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Mar 1, 2007 - 5:30pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Don -
I'd like to see those photos as well.
Garth
You've got a question, I've got an answer.
Posted By: TGarth Connelly | Posted on: Mar 2, 2007 - 9:31am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Ed
I spoke with Wallace Mcneish, who was the chief gunners mate on PT 374. He said that most of the extra 50 caliber guns mounted to the sides of the cockpit or between the Torpedoes were simply made using a long pipe to which the gun was fitted on a mount. Ammo boxes could simply be wooden boxes attached by another piece of metal. According to Wallace, he had made one using a 30 caliber gun as well. Not much stopping power but it could throw out lots of lead. I will look for a picture of it, as I have all of Wallace's photo's from that time and I am very sure it shows the gun.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Mar 2, 2007 - 2:55pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Thanks Frank.
Ed
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Mar 2, 2007 - 5:55pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Don could you please email me at jgbeas@comcast.net I would like to talk to you about pictures that you might have available. Thanks Jerry
Jerry Beasley
Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Mar 30, 2009 - 3:36pm
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm
Hi Donald,
From the traffic on message board, looks like quite a few of us like to see your pictures of PT 493. To save time and money, I suggest you put them
on message board so anyone can down load them as desired. All
questions and answers can be handle the same way for everyone's
benefit. We don't want to swamp you with work.
Victor
Victor K Chun
Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: Mar 30, 2009 - 4:44pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
These are photos of the 489 boat, also of Ron 33. I assume that the first shows the acey ducey you referred to. Is the gun in the second photo the cockpit .30 caliber you referred to?
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/G%20R%20Powell/PT4894.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/G%20R%20Powell/PT4891.jpg[/image]
G R Powell
Posted By: G R Powell | Posted on: Mar 30, 2009 - 6:49pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Hi Mr. Brown
I'm very interested in pictures about the Acey Ducey since I saw the Ed Cassacia Work with the PT 495 , could you send the pictures to
martue@fiberetl.com.ar.
Thank You in advance
Kind Regards
Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: Mar 30, 2009 - 8:22pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
My apologies Mr Brown !
my email adress is worng the correct one is :
martuen@fibertel.com.ar if you decide to send me the pictures
And beg your pardon from all you guys
Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: Mar 30, 2009 - 8:32pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Don, my Uncle served with RON 33 from early/mid '44 through Oct. '45, so add me to the list of those that would love to see your pictures. I've got all of his pictures, but none of the 493 boat (unless it's one of the many un-numbered boats in the pics). If you need anything from me, please feel free to e-mail me.
Thanks & welcome to PT Boats!
Blake
Posted By: Blake | Posted on: Mar 31, 2009 - 9:11am
Total Posts: 61 | Joined: Apr 18, 2008 - 2:44pm
I also have an extreme interest in the Acey Ducy and have been searching everywhere for data - almost none is in existance so I would be very anxious to see what you have pictures of - I have been working with Garth but pictures just seem to be very rare .
There are several pictures of the 525 Boat that show portions of an Acey Ducy somewhat different than this one. Even though it is under canvas you can see difference such as this has rectangular ammo boxes and the one of 525 has curved cans taken from a turret. I'm sure all of these had to be field expediedant modifications done either by the crew or some base location.
Maybe I should post a new thread because I don't have the slightest intention of high jacking this thread - but does anyone have any pictures of the 525 boat that clearly show the whole gun? I would also take any suggestions on where to research pictures either through the forum or other sources if you know of any - Both the Chun and Johnson book have partial pictures of the gun on 525 but noting complete - Couldn't the photographer have the forsite to just say "General, could you please just move a bit to the right so we can get the whole gun into the frame"?
Jerry Beasley
Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Mar 31, 2009 - 1:15pm
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm
Here is my Ron 33 photo album. The photos of the 493 boat are from Don Brown. They are great photos and i thank him very much. The color photos have been evaluated by John Snyder and he feels that the boats were green and brown. The 493 was lost right after the move to the P.I. so the green/brown scheme was most likely from the New Guinea operations. Don told me that the CO of Ron 33 at that time was very strict about all the boats looking exactly the same.
Ray Wilbur joind the 495 boat right after the move to P.I. and told me that the boat was in a green/green scheme. That is the scheme I modeled. I started out doing the green/brown scheme then switched to the green/green based on Rays memory and the date i was trying to depict. By looking at the photos you can see that there were changes in the paint and boat numbers with, I believe, the earlier scheme using red outlined numbers. Look at the 495, Miss Fury photo and the red outlined scheme is easy to see. The 495 was later renamed Gentleman Jim so the Miss fury boat number predate the name change. That change happened after Jim Shaw was killed in July of '44. You can also see red numbers on the 493.
[url]http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1840703[/url]
In this album page you can see the green/brown scheme I think was used in N.G. Originally the pattern was carried across the deck but at some point painted over with deck green or like color. Don and his dad built a model of the 493 after the war and his dad, Richard, selected the colors and pattern so that is the best first-hand data available for how the Ron 33 boats looked in N.G. As I said, the 493 was lost within a day or so of reaching the P.I.
This album also has some photos of my acey-ducey.
Ray Wilbur was only on the 495 from about the time they reached P.I. until Nov 21/22, about a month. My guess is that, based upon his rememberance of green/green (he perfectly described the colors and they matched some of the time appropriate greens available from WEM) that some boats were paint just before or just after the trip from N.G. to P.I.
[url]http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1941216[/url]
It is interesting to also note that the 490 with Mac on board still carried the red outlined numbers.
There is a photo in my ron 33 album of several of the ron 33 boats nested together. The 490, 495 and 491. note the red outline boat numbers on the 490 but the others are solid white of grey. If you look closely you can make out the camo pattern on the deck just visible under the deck green. According the photos of the model don and his dad built, the pattern did extend across the deck. Lastly, if you look closely at the 495's starboard 20mm, you can see on of the 50 cal barrels poking out of the gun cover. It is just below the 20 mm barrel. I have a photo reproduction from PT Boat Inc that shows all this in better detail than the version in my album.
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Apr 1, 2009 - 5:34am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Hello Don, I would love to have a shot of the gun rig you mentioned for my book series. If you send me a copy at at last 100kb I scan convert that to a printable file size. Or if you have a scanner, you could email me a 300 DPI scan. Also include how you want the credit line to read. My series is"The Ship Killers".
Thank you,
Joe Hinds
JOe Hinds
Posted By: joetheartguy | Posted on: Apr 1, 2009 - 7:21am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
A friend of mine just sent me the first picture posed in email. His father was QM on the 489. An yway, on the back are the names of who is in the picture. I'm going to TRY and put it here. If it works, I'll post another one he sent he which is a group photo of the entire squadron.
[IMG]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT489ABSannotation.jpg[/IMG]
Ray
Posted By: Ray Wilbur | Posted on: Apr 8, 2009 - 10:05am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
oNE MORE TRY.
[IMAGE]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/RON33.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT489ABSannotation.jpg[/IMAGE]
Ray
Posted By: Ray Wilbur | Posted on: Apr 8, 2009 - 10:10am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Hi Donald:
Could you send me some pictures of the PT 493 to this email adress ?
martuen@fibertel.com.ar
Specilly about the acey ducey, and if it possible the bridge
I'm trying to build a ron 33 PT at Surigao boat but I have no decided which one yet.
The Ed Cassacia's PT 495 inspire me but , I'm continue searching for pics and reference.
Thank you very much !
Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: May 5, 2009 - 2:36am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Gustavo;
there are two photos of 495 on hyperwar. the second photo clearly shows a 37 mm Mount forward, a covered Acey Ducey and 20mm on both sides of the forward cabin. If the photo can be enlarged, you might see bridge guns.
Good Luck,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: May 5, 2009 - 5:11am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Gustavo;
just checked Navsource has a better enlarged photo of the nest of 491,495, 490, go to the web address that Jerry posted earlier this week.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: May 5, 2009 - 5:16am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Thanks again for your prompt response Ted
I checked your reference Un fortunately In Hyperwar I saw only a red X, but here
http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120549006.jpg
I saw the pic of the boats : the covered 20 mm cannons look at least without the 12,5 mm machines guns (perhaps only with ammo boxes) , if you wish try to imagine totally covered the acey ducey as you can see at Ducatti 650’s PT 495 , here
http://img.villagephotos.com/imageview.aspx?i=19916484
perhaps will consider correct my theory
By the way , for the first time in this pic I saw an uncovered side 20 mm cannon beside the Torpedo of the PT 491 in unidentified PT boat (at the lower end)
Again thank you for your time and patience
Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: May 5, 2009 - 3:53pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Here's the link to Hyperwar:
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/PT/PT-495.html
Ray
Posted By: Ray Wilbur | Posted on: May 6, 2009 - 8:56am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Thanks Ray
I can see the picture now
Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: May 6, 2009 - 5:23pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I've got photographic prints of these shots. I've marked up some details that are hard to see in books or on-line.
In the 495 photo I've marked the 50 cal barrel and 20 mm barrel on the Acey-ducey. It looks like the 495 carried it on the starboard side. I also marked the starboard wing 30 cal and mount as well as the twin 50 cal on the port side.
The 491 port wing 30 cal shows nicely.
In the other photo you can make out the boat number on the left side as 49-something. It looks like 5 or 3 under magnification. Close examinatin of the 3 boats I marked as RON 33 shows boat number consistant with the RON 33 series and are located on the top rear of the engine room hatch/air intake.
[image]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-11/65524/495-1.JPG[/image]
[image]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-11/65524/ron33-1.JPG[/image]
I suggest getting prints and/or looking at these in the books they are in with magnification. There is a wealth of data to be discovered.
In my RON 33 album, you can download the photos by clicking to get full size then right clicking followed by "save as..." to your computer.
Between these photos and Donald,s great color 493 photos in my Ron 33 album combined with photos in a couple of the better books that show MacArthur on the bow of a couple PTs (491 and 524?) with an A-D, you can get an idea of how an Acey-Ducey looked. Then put yourself in the shoes of a crew building one and ask, "How would i do this given the resources at hand?". Some A-D had curved ammo boxes-same ones used in the 50 cal turrets. Others had rectangular boxes typical of standard army 50 cal AA mounts.
I hope this helps.
Ed
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: May 11, 2009 - 7:56am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Thank you Ed :
Yes, your coments help me a lot. I saw clear the covered barrel of the 50 cal. beside the 20 mm.
I magnified the 495's picture I think the three 20 mm have curved handles.
I 'll check all the pics meticulously.
Bye !
Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: May 11, 2009 - 8:11pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Glad to help. The photos also show the variation in the 37mm and 20mm mounts and bases. A close look will also show that some of the boats, 493 included, had the later style deck vents and that the quantity and locations varied.
Did you notice that the 495 is missing part of her port side toe rail?
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 4:45pm
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Noup , I'll continue searching for details, thanks !
Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 5:47pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered