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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: Good news for P.T. Boat modelers
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Based on some information I've seen over on Modelwarships.com and Steel Navy's message board, it appears that Italieri is about to give us a 103 Class Elco 80' in 1/35. From the box art work they are marketing it as P.T. 109, but it should be a great starting point for anybodys dream mid-war barge buster of the 103 Class. I'm currently working on their P.T. 596 (a great kit, by the way) and you can tell from the deadlight placement that they molded the deck with a 103 Class boat in the future in mind. From the photos I've seen, they have properly reworked the topsides detail so it isn't just the 596 with torpedo tubes and 103 class armament. If you want to see a shots from the Nuremberg Toy Show, here is the link: http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/index.htm

Bob

Currently building: P.T. 596 (Italieri 1/35); and U.S.S. Laffey (Dragon 1/350).

Posted By: robtmelvin | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 9:36am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



I didn't see any links on the White Ensign page, but I loved this quote:
Enlisted men are stupid, but very cunning and deceitful and bear considerable watching. - U.S. Marine Corps Officers Manual, 1894

Here's Italeri's Flickr page of photos from the toy fair, PT 109 images are in the 2nd row down:
[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/italeri/sets/72157629331162569/[/url]

I hope it's not the finished product, I can see some errors in this photo:
[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/italeri/6886689167/in/set-72157629331162569/lightbox/[/url]

A big error is the port bridge wall going up to the top of the windshield. The port wing may also be too high? The starboard wall looks funky too.
The port bridge grab rail should be curved and longer.
The aft turret canvas shield is straight sided.
Aft turret step should be under the aft day room window on the earlier boats.
The chart house nav lights appear flat on top and bottom.
The forward turret railing is missing a section that keeps the gunner from shooting up the captain.
Chart house forward windows had a rather pronounced frame.

Hopefully it's just a prototype.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 11:46am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



All;
Here are two more, since I can't find the ones Rob is talking about.
http://militarymodels.co.nz/tag/italeri-5613-135-kennedys-pt-109-photos/
take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 11:46am
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



For comparison, here's what the port wall should look like:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/bridgeAndChartHousePortGriddedTest02.jpg[/image]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 12:02pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Great news. We asked them for it, and here it comes.

I didn't drop the big bucks for Italeri's late-war PT 596, but I'm surely considering it for this baby.

I see a few minor mistakes, too (the depth charges are still too far forward of the forward tubes -- but almost everyone who makes a 109 places them there), but considering the only other 103-class kit in this scale is the Lindberg one... As Frank said, this may be just a prototype build.

Maybe Italeri will make another set of crew figures like they did for the 596, with a couple resembling JFK and Lenny Thom (or whomever you want them to represent -- the 109's last skipper and exec weren't the only PT men who wore Army/Marine fatigue caps or beards).



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 12:10pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



This is exciting News and opens the door for some exciting builds. I do see plenty of errors in the boat, but this could be a prototype. I am in hopes that someone might be able to contact them about the errors before final assembly heads out to the public, but if not, what is being pointed out is not earth shattering, and those who build these boats like Stan and others, can make any adjustments needed. The 20mm Cannon is high enough for Lurch from "The Addams Family" to fire the thing. Too bad we do not have any inside view of the Helm area to look at.

I often wonder who works on these PT BOAT projects and who is the tech engineer, that does not pick up on these mistakes. Prototype photo's should go out to guys who know PT Boats for advise before these things get to final stages of assembly. Too bad a group of us from this board could not contact Italeri as tech advisers for these PT Boat projects. I still can't wait to make a purchase, or maybe two of them.





Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 1:03pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Jeff - every time I see your drawings I am just in awe!!

Bridge



Posted By: TheBridge | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 4:56pm
Total Posts: 315 | Joined: Nov 22, 2009 - 3:04pm



Bridge, thanks but I'm not the one that made physical pieces a few fingerprint ridges wide. Your model rocks.

Hope nobody tells us to get a room.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 5:23pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Looking at the photos this kit needs a fair amount of work. Nothing that looks like a deal killer. I'm sure they're just maximizing the use of the 596 parts as best they can. I can tell you after working on the torpedo tube ignitors (or whatever the correct term is for those things) they need a lot of work! I'll be posting my work on those soon.

Hard to say what they used for a reference. But Al and Jeff, they could sure use the benefit of your experience and references. Or... you could organize some really great after market sets.

I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of this offering.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Feb 23, 2012 - 8:08pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



I would purchase an early model 80 footer given a reasonable price. The Late model elco is really of no interest to me! It screws up the fine lines of the thorougbred! Being that there may be some mods that would have to be done is slightly disapointing but par for the course considering all the mods necessary on so many other models of PT boats offered thru the years!

Dam the torpedoes...full speed ahead!

Posted By: Michael Snodgrass | Posted on: Feb 24, 2012 - 7:25am
Total Posts: 31 | Joined: Dec 28, 2011 - 12:52am



I thought I would go ahead and post the photos of the Italeri 109 model. You can see where they have used parts from the previous build as you would expect. For example the aft turret spray shield and depression rails, raft, anchor, etc. I noticed that the raft wasn't painted which indicates that they may still be working on the 37mm. They may release that as a kit in itself. I could go on and on about the errors as I know you guys can. Much work to do but lots of potential.
Dave

[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/Italeri-PT-109-a.jpg[/IMAGE]

[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/Italeri-PT-109-b.jpg[/IMAGE]

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Feb 25, 2012 - 6:22am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Ahoy there mates!

I've finally managed to retreive my log-in details and I also finally feel like doing something model related. Basically I've had a terrible year since my sister's death Valentine's Day 2011. I'm glad to be back.

I was excited to see that Italeir has been working on a 103 Class of PT boat. I am very disappointed to readthat there are so many glaring errors with the model shown in the images. I too hope that it's a prototype and that most major issues will be corrected prior to release. Up here the PT-596 kit is not cheap and I suspect that the 103 class boat will not be much cheaper if it is.

However, at least the kit as show will not be as hard to correct as the old Lindberg 1/32 scale PT boat is.

It'd be terrific if Italeri did include the37 mm gun as there isn't one of those available in 1/35 scale in styrene that I'm aware of.

The ancient Monogram 1/32 scale jeep had a 37 mm anti-tank gun with it but it was pretty basic but good enough for the Lindberg PT boat kit.

It'll be interesting to see what the actual released model from Italeri will look like.

Cheers and happy modelling from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Feb 25, 2012 - 12:45pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



Pete

It's great to have you back on the message board, I had been thinking of you, hoping all was alright. Its great that Italeri has listened to folks and agreed to come out with a 103 class boat, now as we all know, let's hope the problems we all can spot, get corrected in the final boxed boat. This information is going to make Stan cry, as I know I will be bringing him yet another project, after PT Boat Ride On Toy, PT-109 Restoration, PT-559 Base and Pedestal, PT-66 build, Blue jacket destroyer, and on and on we go. Like Stan says " I don't have enough time left in this world to build you all the projects you keep coming up with".



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 25, 2012 - 1:35pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Peter
CMK has a pretty nice 37mm in 1/35 that you can pick up in the USD25 range if you were to decide you want one. The gun can be found on the web as (1/35 CMKRA041 M3 US 37mm Anti-tank gun WWII )
Jerry

Jerry Beasley

Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Feb 25, 2012 - 9:27pm
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm




Peter
CMK has a pretty nice 37mm in 1/35 that you can pick up in the USD25 range if you were to decide you want one. The gun can be found on the web as (1/35 CMKRA041 M3 US 37mm Anti-tank gun WWII )
Jerry

Jerry Beasley


Thanks Jerry.

Is CMK a styrene company? I really do *NOT* like working with resin parts.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Feb 26, 2012 - 12:45pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



Resin and PE but they do a very nice easy to work with product.

Jerry Beasley

Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Feb 26, 2012 - 6:26pm
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm



Folks,come on and appreciate what we have coming here. Sure, there may be some inaccuracies shown, but, as anyone who has attempted the 1/72 Revell boat will attest, this is a major leap forward (also in a scale old eyes like mine can appreciate). Over a year ago I asked our membership to respond to a Fine Scale Modeler Most Wanted Kits Poll. You did, we were heard, and now we have this beautiful new kit as an answer. I for one applaud Italeri, and will be one of the first on my block to purchase this kit. A+ for effort!

SteveS156

Posted By: SteveS156 | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 8:59am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Steve,

I couldn't agree with you more.



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 1:40pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Your right, we have become nit pickers on this site, myself included. Thank You Italeri, I can't wait to get mine...........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 1:43pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



I respectfully disagree. One Lindberg kit is enough. At $150+ I think it should be damn close to what the real boat looked like. Especially given the excellent references available today. Again, I'm hoping it is not the finished product. It would be better to wait a little longer to do it right. That port wall way too high is not nit picking. It makes the boat look funny.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 3:34pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Just curious Jeff, if the boat comes out with the wall too high, will you not buy the boat. I agree with you that Italeri should have done their homework, and got it right, but come on, with the few things that might be wrong with the Kit, I would guess that model builders on this site, have plenty of know how to fix those problems and make an excellent model.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 3:41pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



May I add an additional point of view concerning asking modeling companies not only for something new, but working with them to correct problems or inaccuracies. I also work with 1/6 scale figures through another Forum and for 6 months we have been working with 2 different manufacturers (one in Italy and one in China) through the forum that really care what the consumer thinks of their products - not only did they listen when we asked for some new figures but then listened to honest constructive criticism as they worked from design to prototype to final production to setting the price when everyone felt the proposed price a bit prohibitive. My point is that while they are smaller companies, they are interested and they do listen - The last thing they want is to drop a new expensive item on the market and then have every forum start tearing it apart because it isn't right and either requires lots of extra work or extra money for aftermarket parts. Will Italeri listen to the consumer, I don't know. But one thing is certain, if we don't constructive try, they definitely won't change anything. The combine population of this Forum is probably the most knowledgeable group of PT enthusiasts in the world, and if we are willing to provide them not only constructive criticism but assistance in the form of drawings and pictures, there is a better than average chance they might just step up and make some corrections before the final product hits the market.

Dave Waples and I have discussed this with Jeff and he has agreed to be the point man to reach out to Italeri with an offer of support in any format necessary to help them produce a superior boat - They have given us something we want, but while it's pretty good, it's not quite there yet. There is a big poster on the wall at work that proclaims "Good enough, isn't." In this case I have to agree - if we can get them to listen, we help the entire modeling community, if not then we tried and we make the corrections as we proceed with the build.

Jerry Beasley

Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 4:11pm
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm



Jeff,

I sure wouldn't want to dispute you on your eyeballing of the port cockpit bulkhead on this new Italeri 103-class boat model as too high, not after all the excellent research, work, and precise measurements you've done and presented on your great site...

But, do you really think it looks too high? It always has seemed to me the early 103-class PTs DID have rather unusually high and boxy cockpit areas formed by a high port side (in particular) splash shield bulkhead and the aft cockpit armor bulkhead and "wing."

Various photos of the 117, shots of the Ron 5 boats on the Stanton, and even the close-up "JFK-in-the-109-cockpit" photos seem to bear this (very) "high" look out to MY eye.

Don' t wish to be a contrarian, or argumentative, but...?

-- Drew



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 4:25pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



I don't think I would as is Frank, but I really think it's not a final version. David pointed out how it looks like a conversion of the 596, you can really see it on the bridge starboard wall. See the closeup below. I think they'll do it right for the release. I realize I might be a little picky. But the closer I looked at the image, the more I was hoping they'd fix the little things like the cone shaped horn and the stubby deck vents.

I think an accurate model looks so much better even when you can't quite put your finger on why it does when compared to a similar boat with a lot of minor flaws.

As Jerry said, I sent Italeri a very polite e-mail asking if the boat at the Nuremberg show was the final version. I also pointed out Dick / Al's Elco DVD and Al's factory torpedo tube drawings. I had Dave and Jerry check my e-mail before I sent it to be sure it was nothing but supportive of this new release.

Yah Drew, I really do think it is about 8 inches too high. It should be even with the top of the forward bridge structure and top of the antenna base. Check out these images from Gene's PT King site, [url]http://www.pt-king.gdinc.com/[/url], as compared to the model:

[image]http://www.pt-king.gdinc.com/12-03.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.pt-king.gdinc.com/17-01.jpg[/image]

Here's a closer shot of the model:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/109portCloseup.jpg[/image]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 5:41pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am




I respectfully disagree. One Lindberg kit is enough. At $150+ I think it should be damn close to what the real boat looked like. Especially given the excellent references available today. Again, I'm hoping it is not the finished product. It would be better to wait a little longer to do it right. That port wall way too high is not nit picking. It makes the boat look funny.




Hi there.

Maybe Italeir posted those images hoping for feedback and notice of any errors like Master Box does when they post images of their In-Progress kits and figure sets on the Master Box website. Master Box welcomes such feedback and acknoleges it to the modeller who sends it. I saw at least two severe errors in two of their kits that i then informed them about. One was their Britsih Infantry North Africa set that the protoptype set had the wrong mark of Lee Enfield rifle for that theater ofoperations at that time. THe other error, on a different set - US Artillery Crew - was not as bad; in fact it was kind of funny. The crew was posed with a 155 mm howitzer. One of the crew is inserting a shell into the breech of the gun. That's great, except the shell had the lifting ring still in place rather than the fuse. Ditto for the other ready rounds in the set.

For the size and the cost of this new PT boat kit I sincerely hope that the images are of a prototype model and that Italeri is seeking and will listen to feedback regarding any errors that are spotted and hopefully correct them before releasing the kit.

I have really been looking forward to this kit and I'm a bit disappointed to read about the rather glaring errors in the bridge area and the spray shield on the port gun tub.

For the price of this kit i expect a model out of the box that has at least an accurate profile.

With the plethora of free images and advice on the 103 Class of PT boat, I just fail to see how these errors crept in unles it was sikply to either get a model built for the show or to save development and tooling costs.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 6:27pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



I am very happy that some of you have gotten together to form a bridge between our board and Italeri. I am in hopes that they will take into consideration all of your input. I do agree that for the money we will be spending on this model, you want it as accurate as possible, but if this does not happen on the final product, I feel pretty certain that the majority will make the purchase and fix the problems. I still feel that some of the problems we are seeing might not show up in the final product, but if they do, can be fixed without too much fuss.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 7:44pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



I think we all want to see Italeri put out an accurate product. I suspect they want the same. Jeff has reached out to them so let's see where it takes us.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 9:04pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



The scary part will be if this IS Italeri's idea of a perfect model.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 29, 2012 - 2:02pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm