The PT Boat Forum
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi


» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf


» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102


» Topic: A Question
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=2375



I have a real question ....

I have stated that the 196 was in two greens when she had that unique and short-lived one-off scheme with that shark's mouth and eyes on her bow.

Mr. Ross now indicates that I am wrong and that she was in an adaption of Measure 14. He says that based on what Mr. David Swasey said.

My question is:

Follow my logic here ...

PT-196 was an unit of Squadron 12, correct?

According to the table in ACF, VOL II on page 179, PTs 187 to 195 came from the factory in Measure 31/5P, correct?

If all of the boats from RON 12 came from the factory en mass in that scheme, then, why would ONE boat be painted in a totally different Measure?

Also, Mr. Ross indicates that Mr. Swasey had written that they were trying to achieve a soft Adaptor Scheme effect ...

My question is ...

If that was so? Why put a gawdy Shark's mouth and eyes on the boat? That would defeat the purpose - would it not?

And, if the other boats of RON 12 came from the factory (as evidenced by Mr. Ross' own table in his book) in Measure 31/5P ... i.e.: two greens, would it not be logical to think and assume that the 196 would also be in the same greens as her squadron-mates?

Or, was Mr. Ross saying that Mr. Swasey was saying that they were attempting to achieve a soft Adaptor Scheme effect with Measure 31/5P?





Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 6:19am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



This prompted my question:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Your 196 should be two Greens and not Grays ...





Not according to David Swasey, the ELCO camoufleur. In describing the scheme on 196, he writes ...Back of the face, we finished out the hull in dark and light gray wavey lines - a sort of quiet 'Adaptor System'.

Al Ross


Is that something told to Mr. Ross in a private correspondence or is it something ANYONE can access? And, where can one find this?





Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 11:05am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Why? Experimentation of course! The 196 was also fitted with the hull appendage which like the Elcoplane never made it to prime time. Here's an image, sorry for the poor quality:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/web_PT_196.gif[/image]

I'd guess the mouth was to inspire fear in the enemy.

Minus the appendage, American PT Boats In WW2 has an image of the 196. It names it the "Green Dragon". Possibly the decks, topsides, and forward hull was painted green? It sounds logical but all the logic in the world can't replace fact so I don't know.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 12:49pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Another reason why I think she was in greens, ... why would a gray boat be called GREEN DRAGON if she was not green to start with? Especially when you take into account that the table from Mr. Ross' book states that the 187 to 195 came from the factory wearing Measure 31/5P?

One and one equals?

No?



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 1:02pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Forgot to mention, the image is from [url]http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/PT/PT-196.html[/url].

Dr. Ross mentions the hull aft of the face.

One and one is a fact, logic is a guess. I'm sure Dr. Ross can most likely shed some light on this.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 1:19pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Well, for me? Logic lies within and stems from facts ...



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 1:40pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Not sure what you're saying there Garth.

Of interest, according to [url]http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/pt/list.htm[/url] the 195 and 196 were launched about the same time (February) but the completed dates show the 196 was 2 months later.

January - 172-182
February - 183-193
March - 194-195
April - none
May - 196

The appendage drawing has an "approved" date of March 1943.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 1:49pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Swasey's statement is a direct quote from his contemporary monograph on ELCO camouflage. On page 121 of his U.S. PATROL TORPEDO BOATS IN WORLD WAR II, Garth cites this document and provides a supposed quote from it, so apparently he has/had access to it. I could not find that passage in my copy of the material.

Interestingly, on pages 111-112, Garth writes: ...PT196, prior to her shipment, was painted in a modified application of Measure 14 with wavy lines painted down the length of her hull of Haze Gray (5-H) with a shark's mouth painted on her bow with two eyes. This paint job was superseded by the application of the colors of Measure 31/5P... For those unfamiliar with Measure 14, all vertical surfaces are Ocean Gray (5-O).

The photos of 196 with the shark's mouth motif were taken in the States, most likely before she was handed over to the USN. Note the ELCO burgee on the mast and the workers in civilian clothes in this photo:

[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/196_0001.jpg[/IMaGe]

As Jeff noted, the 196 was used as a test bed for a variety of items, including the slipper tank, the enlarged engine room hatch, and the abortive lightweight ELCO 20mm mount.

[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/196_0002.jpg[/IMaGe]
[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/196_0003.jpg[/IMaGe]

So, we have primary documentation in the form of:

a. written statements from a person directly involved with the development of the color scheme
b. photos showing the boat in that scheme prior to delivery to the USN

Perhaps Garth can provide some equally credible primary documentation that this scheme was repeated in greens?

Al Ross






Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 3:05pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Mr. Ross,

Was Mr. Swasey's "monograph" a handwritten document?

I remember having a handwritten doc by a man named Swasey, is that it? If it is? I no longer have it.

Where can I obtain another copy?

However, my question remains;

Why would a boat destined for RON 12 - When all of her near sisters came from the factory in Measure 31/5P - be painted in another Measure in different colors?

It does not make sense.





Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 3:47pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Al and everyone else;
Here is a nicer photo, again notice Elco Burgee is atop the mast.
Take care,
TED

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT196experimentaltrialsacceptancetrials1942.jpg[/image]



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 3:59pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Mr. Ross ...

Please. I'm totally serious. I don't have that document anymore. My mother was on a cleaning spree a couple of years ago when my father got ill and died ...

Frankly Mr. Ross, after the three years I've had (and especially the past few months) I can't remember what I wrote in my book (s) ... heck, I am lucky if I am able to remember my own name and who I am ...

So, your posting what I said in my book does not help me.

My original question in this thread was a legit one and one asked in earnest ... I'm TRYING to understand something ...



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 4:53pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



That's a cool shot, thanks Ted.

Thank you too Dr Ross, the 2 shots show how much they experimented with this particular boat.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 5:06pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



I am pretty sure Stan Pienkowski made this exact boat, showing her with that add on fuel tank. If i find the photos I will post them here...........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 5:43pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



With appropriate respect to the individuals who have done years of research on these matters, allow me to offer a guess here. In answer to the question of why the 196 would be painted differently from her squadron-mates, might I suggest that the Navy needed a test subject and simply chose one. Given that the boats were needed in combat as soon as they were produced, it may have made sense to "borrow" one for a short time to try out new paint schemes, weapons, etc., rather than produce a boat or boats exclusively for testing.
While we're looking at these pictures, I have a question of my own. What are the four boxes mounted along the aft rail?

Thanks,
Keith



Posted By: kgretter | Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 6:18pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Keith
Those are ammo lockers, and from the size I would guess they would be holding 40mm ammo and clips. I guess my take here would be "Why not a sharks mouth on the bow"? Why are some boats green, why are some boats gray, why do some have this, and other do not? I learned a long time ago that no two boats were alike. When the boats left the factory, after all the trial's and the Navy got a hold of them, some were changed to suit the needs of the Navy and the Squadrons they were being assigned to.

If we look at all the boats from all the squadrons, not all were identical in what they carried. The Skipper of the boat pretty much had the final say as to what would get placed or removed from the boats. The art work for each boat for instance was usually done by someone with flair for painting and artistry. Remember, not all Squadrons had complete boats. It might have gotten 6 boats, and had to wait for the others. In the meantime, changes might have been instituted during this wait, and those changes might have been in paint schemes, so the boats were brought to Fye's Shipyard for those changes, than shipped to the Squadron. Test boats were randomly picked and used to test heavier weapons before being added to other boats. They always needed to see what worked in order to maintain the speed of the boats, as weight was a constant threat. Trials were always going on at Elco, and I am sure at Higgins as well, in which they probably used one or two as test beds for everything from weapons to paint schemes.

Why some boats were changed to other colors, must have been feedback from the operating Squadrons and the Navy's works manager on site at those plants to institute changes needed to maintain the Squadrons. The Shark's mouth and design was probably something they were trying, or added to the test boat so they could recognize her as such. All of this is my take on things, from looking at documents from Elco showing different tests and weights of everything on the boats.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 4:42am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



I MIGHT have credible proof to prove my statement ...

I am currently waiting to hear back ... but, it is Thanksgiving ....



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 8:33am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Keith, I've heard them referred to as Ready Service Lockers or RSL, but I wasn't in the Navy and somebody may be able to provider better information. The 40mm Bofors ammo cans look like this...

[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/40mmammocontainer.jpg[/IMAGE]

You see these littered all over PT's once they started mounting the Bofors on them. I think these are too tall to stand up in the RSL's you see on the deck of this boat. I'm wondering if they lay them down on their sides or if the ammo is removed from the cans and positioned in the RSL in some fashion so that they are ready for use.

Were RSL's used for items other than ammo? Guns as well? We're they water tight? Are they metal or wood on these boats?

Jeff, I see another drawing opportunity for you!

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 8:56am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



These were pretty much the shipping containers for the 40mm. Kind of awkward to act as a RSl. They were usually taken out of these containers and put into something that was easily accessable by the loader or ammo passer. On some of the later boats, you'll see a rack just forward or next to the 40mm. The lockers were just another version of RSLs.



Charlie

Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 9:50am
Total Posts: 598 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm



Just to add to the shark's head muddle; I suppose it could have been a short-lived paint scheme done for promotional photo purposes, since the boat was at one time a test bed anyway.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 10:15am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Hi Charlie,
I probably wasn't clear. I understand that these were shipping and storage containers. But you did answer part of my question which is while in action did the crews pull the ammo from these cans or were they removed in advance and stored in RSL's for quick action.

I have seen one boat where the 40mm ammo containers pictured above were stacked behind the 40mm horizontally and ammo was pulled from there and fed to the Bofors. In other photos I just see them tied on to whatever is handy probably because there's no better place to store them at the time.

I'm really curious how crews would have stored 40mm ammo in these RSL's around the gun. Or did they? I know the later boats had 40mm ammo racks built in behind the gun as you mentioned. From a modeling perspective if I modeled a RSL open, how would the 40mm be stacked in there?

Dave





David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 11:00am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Dave

because the shells needed to be clipped, meaning there were 4 rounds attached to a clip, they were usually ready for the loaders to hit the breech.The ready can you showed, was used as a shipment platform for the rounds, but were too small to hold the rounds in their clips. The wooden ammo lockers in some of the shots, held the rounds with their clips at the ready. They did not have to reach in, and try to secure the rounds to the clips, as this would have taken too long. The racks,, held the rounds already in their clips, so loaders could just pass each clipped shells to the breech and fire them as fast as the gun could be loaded.........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 12:17pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Actually, the rounds in the cannisters were clipped, just not real easy to reach in and grab. We've got some on the batleship NORTH CAROLINA. I'm going down there next weekend. I can take a picture of the inside of the cannister is you'd like.

Charlie

Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 1:32pm
Total Posts: 598 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm



Frank;
In your post of Nov 24, 2011 - 7:42am, you are more than likely correct. This is why the first boat to be painted in the adapter scheme was PT 139. This is also why the first boat with a thunderbolt quad 20mm was PT 138, the second thunderbolt was mounted on PT 160, this one had 4 20mm and 2 .50 caliber M2's. This is also why the first boat with a bow mounted 40mm was PT 174. how RON 8 and 7 boats were first to test SCR-517 radar units and deploy with them. MK12 scarf ring mount in RON 10's boats. PT 334 of RON 24 was first to test a 75mm M4 on the stern. For a number of these test situations, they just picked a boat, and that was it. As for PT 196, my reason for them creating "ELCOPUSS" is for the simple reason, that the Japanese originally called all PT Boats "The Green Dragons", The sea monster that at night sailed in fast, flapped its wings, fired torpedoes then flew away into the darkness. As a one off The scheme does look good in both colors, but I think it was two tone gray, and it was just a publicity opportunity, it was never intended to go into the combat zone like that.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING,
TED
P.S. the external fuel cell, just happened to be developed during the same period, so it was tested with PT 196.



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 1:48pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Hi Frank,
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY! Charlie is correct as usual. We have four of these cans on board PT658 stored inside our RSL just fwd of the 40mm Bofors gun mount. It holds 16 rounds of 40mm Bofors ammo already in the 4 round clips. I looked and do not have a photo showing the interior of the can. Sorry! I do however, have some photos (posted below) showing both the racks that hold the 40mm amoo as well as wooden box that holds 4 round clips. Both Elco and Higgins used both types of holders. The ammo cans retain the 4 round clip by a little metal tab that you must push aside when grabbing the clip. This allows you to lift the 4 round clip up and out of the ammo can. View the photos below to see the different types of ammo clip racks on different PT Boats. Jerry PT658

PT588 with tilted rack for ammo cans

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/PT58840mmandammorack.jpg[/image]

PT309 showing wooden RSL holding 4 round clips

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/PT30940mmboxBillZolla.jpg[/image]

PT209 showing a couiple of 40mm ammo cans secured next to mount

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/PT209_40mm_kapoks_ammocans.jpg[/image]

PT171 Cas Milewski showing 40mm ammo cans on tilted rack

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/PT171CasMilewskion40mmindock.jpg[/image]

PT127 (*Bob Douglas collection) showing 40mm ammo cans

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/PT127byDock_tif.jpg[/image]

PT127 (Bob Douglas collection) showing metal rack for holding 40mm ammo cans next to 40mm mount

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/PT12740mmRowOfBoats_tif.jpg[/image]

PT365 ammo rack showing 4 round clips held in wooden rack (usually represented covered with canvas) Kenny Morris collection

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/00000043.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/00000043.jpg[/image]



Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 1:52pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Thanks Guys for correcting me. I thought the cans were only for the shipment and storage of the rounds without clips. I can see from the photo's however, it must have been a little tough trying to reach in and grab the rounds in this manner. I am glad that I was corrected, and thanks for the heads up.........................



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 2:57pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Frank;
Yes as Charlie said it was difficult to reach in and grab a clip. In 1995, I was in Salinas, Ecuador and we were on an NSW MTT(Naval Special Warfare Mobile Training Team). We were prepping for a gun shoot with the host nation gunboats, and myself and 3 others were on a Ecuadorian PG(US 1944-45 vintage). The crew was showing us the forward 40mm, and in Spanish we were kidding around with them asking if their 40mm would work for them the following day. Well a Ecuadorian crew member, who was the lead gunners mate, decides to show us how fast his crew could work the gun. They swing into action in front of us, and go to mock action stations, the loader goes to the ready storage box, whips out one of these cans, opens it up, grabs a clip which is stuck, then pulls as hard as he can and he looses his grip. The 4 round clip flies out of the box, up about 7-8 feet in the air, and slams on the deck. I lok at one of my guys BM2 Morales(who was mild complexion Puerto Rica) and his eyes were as wide as Kennedy half dollars and he was as white as a sheet. I just started laughing, when I stopped, I said "Morales I know you were scared Sh_-less, but doi you really want to see something?" I grabbed the clip and I handed to the Ecuadorian Seaman, and asked him to take the rounds out of the clip and let me look at one of the rounds. Just as I suspected, "He Morales, look at this, he came over and I showed him, the round had 1943 stamped in the bottom, in fact 3 out of the 4 rounds were 1943, the fourth was 1944." Morales was like "Wholly Sh@#! lets get ooff this thing"!
That was really a very funny day, I am laughing about it as I write this, thanks for reminding me with this thread!
Take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 4:15pm
Total Posts: 3058 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Thanks everyone and thank you Jerry for posting these great pictures. Nice view of the 40mm in the RSL. I'm seeing so much in them. Resourceful guys these PT Boat sailors.

Charlie, I would love to see photos of how these containers were packed. I'll look forward to seeing those!
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 4:50pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Thanks everyone and thank you Jerry for posting these great pictures. Nice view of the 40mm in the RSL. I'm seeing so much in them. Resourceful guys these PT Boat sailors.

Charlie, I would love to see photos of how these containers were packed. I'll look forward to seeing those!
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 4:52pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



Ted

Thanks so much for that funny story. Can you imagine seeing 1943 stamped onto the ammo your going to use in a fight. I think I might run myself...........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 6:18pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



FYI ...

My source thinks the 196 was, like me, in greens but I'm waiting for them to give me a more definitive answer (and proof) so I can posted without being pounced on in a dogpile effect.

They also believe that MS 14 was incorrect as well.



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 6:28am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Correct me if I'm wrong but the original debate is how the 196 was originally painted?

What Ted said about the "Green Dragon" being a generic term not specific to the 196, and that the paint job was for publicity makes sense. All the shark / dragon photos here seem to show her stateside. As a publicity paint job, it wouldn't matter what color the paint was if it was just going to be repainted. The more common gray would be just fine for a black and white print for the press and probably easier to paint over.

Is it a shark or a dragon? The mouth of a shark but the nose looks dragonish to me. When was the term "Green Dragon" first used? Was it used with this paint job? Are these really publicity shots? Will I ever nail that hot divorcee down the street?




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 8:49am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



I guess we all knew what this post was about from the beginning. It was another attempt by Garth to prove Dr. Ross wrong and promote himself. Once again it has failed. It seems to me the question has been asked and answered.

1) Somebody named Swasey documented Elco camouflage and identified the paint scheme as Measure 14. Do I have the right Dr. Ross?

2) I personally have several publications identifying PT-196 as Measure 14 and Garth has documented this in his own book.

3) Looking at the photos provided in now way is this boat painted in Measure 31/5P. Here's what that paint scheme looks like and when you look at the 196 photos it is obvious it is not 31/5P.

[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/measure31-5-2.jpg[/IMAGE]

Note: This picture is to provide evidence of the camo design and not the specific color or paint used.

4) We have NO color photograph or documented evidence indicating that this boat was 31/5P or even green.

Garth has a "guess" that the information provided by "Swasey" and Dr. Ross is incorrect and
has an unidentified source that thinks he is right according to Garth. THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE.

In any event, I've really enjoyed the information provided by you guys on the 40mm. Great photos and information which will be very helpful. My friend Jerry just called me to tell me that he has a complete box with ammo. We'll try and photograph that.

Dave


David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 9:12am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm




1) Somebody named Swasey documented Elco camouflage and identified the paint scheme as Measure 14. Do I have the right Dr. Ross?



David Swasey was a camoufleur at ELCO during WWII.

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 9:20am
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Thanks for the clarification Al. If anyone should know....
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 9:32am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm



I'm not going to get into this kind of stuff on here. But, Frank, Dave, I wish they had a like button on here like facebook so I could hit it on your comments. Let's move on, ok?

Ray


Posted By: Ray Wilbur | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 12:52pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



To quote Rodney King: Cant we all just get along? Come on guys lets move on. Agree to disagree and move on. PLEEEASE?

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 1:01pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm




Enough is enough, this subject post "Questions" is closed.

Please don't force me to remove it. it has some interesting info, references and photos, to delete this post at this time would be a shame.

Dick . . . .



Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 1:28pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Awwwww. . . How else are we gonna get in the Xmas Spirit?

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 5:16pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



At this point, I hope I am going to get something in my Christmas Stocking.........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 6:03pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Guys - let me address the other side of the thread - some of you may know or not but I am a very serious 40mm collector - about a year ago I came across a fellow that had a can in his attic that his dad had brought home in 1944 that was in mint condition and hadn't been touched since he put it there - in the can were 16 inert rounds set into 4 clips - Charlie no need to take the pictures for Dave - I will be seeing him at boat club tomorrow and I am going to load the box and rounds into the van and HE can take all the pictures he wants - heck he can take it home for awhile and play with it if he wants - if anyone on the site wants pictures I would be happy to take a detailed set like Jerry Gilmartin frequently does for us and put them on the site - inside, outside, loaded or empty - just let me know and I will take them for you.
Jerry

Jerry Beasley

Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 7:33pm
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm



jerry

I would love to see how this was packed, so let me me be the first to ask for the pictures, heck just ship it to me for the Exhibit and I will play with it, ha ha..........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 25, 2011 - 8:54pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Let me take this thread in a third direction...I was on the USS North Carolina last week with my family. Good times! I took a lot of photos of the 40mms (in quad layout) because my wife's grandfather manned them on the USS Atlanta (CL-104) in the Pacific. I also snapped a lot of photos of the 20mm's because of the different 20mm mounts used on the deck - didn't know if anyone ever needed detailed modern photos of them. Dick detailed the different mounts to me when he did the boat diagrams but it was hard to find detailed period photos of the mounts.

Charlie - you on the board down in NC too?

Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net


Posted By: newsnerd99 | Posted on: Dec 11, 2011 - 9:37am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Jim'

Would love to see photos of the mounts and others you might be willing to share. I think the Battle Wagons, Cruisers, and destroyers are very neat. I have a beautiful model of a Fletcher Class Destroyer that I has been at Stan's for a long time. As I channel all of my extra money (when I have any extra money) on the PT BOATS, it leaves me little for other things that i love, such as these other Ships of WWII.........................



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 11, 2011 - 10:27am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am




Let me take this thread in a third direction...I was on the USS North Carolina last week with my family. Good times! I took a lot of photos of the 40mms (in quad layout) because my wife's grandfather manned them on the USS Atlanta (CL-104) in the Pacific. I also snapped a lot of photos of the 20mm's because of the different 20mm mounts used on the deck - didn't know if anyone ever needed detailed modern photos of them. Dick detailed the different mounts to me when he did the boat diagrams but it was hard to find detailed period photos of the mounts.

Charlie - you on the board down in NC too?

Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net


No, not on the Board, but I run the Living History Crew on the NORTH CAROLINA. In fact, we were doing our program there on December 3rd.

Charlie

Charlie

Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Dec 12, 2011 - 4:49am
Total Posts: 598 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm