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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
PT 337 Opinions
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Hi all,
I have been making some progress of my conversion of the PT109 to PT337 and I'm looking for some opinions. I'm working from this picture
[image]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/bwross1/PT%20337/PT-33720002.jpg[/image]
Couple of things; there appears to be a weapon platfrom on the foredeck but no weapon. Is there someway of verifying whether or not 337 had a gun there when she was lost? I'm thinking a 20mm would be there but I could be wrong.
Second, what is that on the top of the charthouse? I've seen pictures of boats with a foil above the bridge, would they have put a foil on the charthouse?
I've finished roughing out the new engineroom ventilator (I'll post a picture soon) and am starting to work on adding details; based on a picture I've seen of PT331 that could be a swab rack on the port side.....any opinions?
Thanks,
Bruce
Bruce Ross
Posted By: bwross | Posted on: Sep 15, 2011 - 7:13pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Hi Bruce-
PT 337 is a great subject to model for your 109 conversion, in my opinion. Be sure to keep us updated as your build progresses. That is indeed the aerofoil. It appears here in the down position resting on the charthouse. When used, it was raised and angled to deflect wind up over the cockpit area. I am currently working on a PT 486-563 series model and am scratch building the aerofoil.
Interesting aside: camouflage enthusiasts may note that the soft color patterns extend from the hull up unto the deck.
ALEX
Posted By: Alex Johnson | Posted on: Sep 15, 2011 - 7:49pm
Total Posts: 70 | Joined: Mar 2, 2007 - 12:07pm
Bruce - I have a couple of pictures of the 337 with what appears to be a 20mm gun at that bow station. Since she still had tubes in those shots, it would appear that they were taken prior to the one you are working from.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Sep 16, 2011 - 10:35am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
That's a great picture to model from. It looks like the 20mm was permanently removed. I'm not familiar with this boat. Is this one where the 20mm was placed in the turret? Just trying to speculate why they would have removed the 20mm off the fore deck.
There are some other interesting details on this boat. The original mounts from the tubes are still in place. There is a box arrangement of some sort around the port side chart house window. I can't recall seeing that before.
The windows on the forward side of the chart house are not painted over.
Again, nice subject! Share your work!
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 16, 2011 - 9:03pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
David ;
This photo is my "opinion" , probably taken in Panama while RON 24 was doing thier pre deployment training. PT 337 was only around for 10 months before it was destroyed. The forward 20MM was probably removed for some other reason, such as repair to the mount, that has not been completed as of the time this photo was taken. I am sure the 20mm was back in this location by the time RON 24 reached Dreger Harbor. While boats on the fordeck were not uncommon in PT photos(ie: PT 157 and PT 333) it usually meant they were in a transition status(ie moving bases, or intending to move soon). As you pointed out, The item in this photo that really caught my eye, is what looks like a vent scoop on the port side charthouse window, sort of like the one we recently discovered on RON 22 boats in the med, used for forcing cool air into the charthouse while the radar unit is in operation.
Bruce;
Yes that may very well be a swab stowed on the side of the engineroom hatch/ventilator , I have a photo of PT 562 RON 29 with it in the same location.
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 17, 2011 - 9:21am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Hey guys,
Thanks for all the inputs and thoughts. I noted the box over the charthouse window…unless someone knows of a closer picture that I can work from I guess I’m going to have to use a little “artistic license” to engineer a box; I do like Dave’s theory that it was an air diverter…..makes sense. I noted that it appears that there is writing over that box…..boat’s nickname perhaps?
Dave that is an interesting observation about the date of the picture….I hadn’t even thought of the dingy position as in indicator of timeframe. Based on your comments, was it normal to have the dingy moved to the day cabin room under normal operations?
I think that I’m going to at least ship a 20mm back into that foredeck position; I just can’t imagine a boat at that late stage of the war going in with a clear foredeck!
The picture is the revised engine room hatch with the rebuilt hatch/ventilator; if anyone notices anything out of place please let me know so I can correct them early in the build.
[image]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/bwross1/PT%20337/P1010047.jpg[/image]
Bruce
Bruce Ross
Posted By: bwross | Posted on: Sep 17, 2011 - 1:32pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Hello
I will be keeping an eye on this build, good work
Posted By: AndrewB | Posted on: Sep 17, 2011 - 2:52pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Bruce, those observations should be credited to Ted and not me. :-)
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Sep 17, 2011 - 9:21pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Oops! My mistake; thanks Ted.
Bruce
Bruce Ross
Posted By: bwross | Posted on: Sep 18, 2011 - 6:10am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
It's a small detail Bruce, but the forward edge of the hatch didn't have a cutout for the turret. It was straight across. Please note that the hatch cover is unfinished:
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/PT_Boat_ELCO_103_Class_Aft_Turret.jpg[/image]
Forgive me if I'm being nit-picky, but the straight part of the funnels look a little small on diameter, they should be 7.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 18, 2011 - 7:18am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Not a problem Bruce.
You mention the dingy being moved to the dayroom. while it is possible to move it to this location, I have not seen any mounting points on the earlier series boats as I believe the later boats(ELCO 565-624 series had, plus that was a 9 foot wherry, this dingy on 337 looks slightly larger), so they would have to lash it to the deck as in this photo. As for the air diverter, as you called it, this is the first time I remember seeing one however, since I am building a 1/32 scale PT 308, I guess my eye is now keen to that sort of stuff, and you are in luck, because I just found an excellent photo of one today,
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT131RON7ANDPT146RON12ALONGSIDEWACHAPREAGUE102544.jpg[/image]
This photo is of PT 131 RON 7 alongside PT 146 RON 12, they are nested alongside USS WACHAPREAGUE on or about 10/25/1944. Notice the starboard side charthouse window area of PT 146. This should give you an excellent idea of construction. This is just a guess but To me it is probably shaped sheet metal that might slide into a permantly mount track. My question is did these windows open on a hinge either up or down as the dayroom windows did?
take care
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 18, 2011 - 10:17am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Nice work Bruce, if I might add a word. The Air intake portion of the engine room hatch - I've never seen a a framed screen covering on the intake. The Elco drawings don't show one either. They do show internal baffles, with one note on the bottom baffle as Muslin coated? ? ? ? and I have seen photos with the intake open not screened. Maybe someone else knows more than I, and thats not saying much. Just an idea for thought
SH
Posted By: Hadly | Posted on: Sep 18, 2011 - 12:40pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I've always thought this shot was a nice one for showcasing some of the "add-on" armament mounts, also.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Sep 18, 2011 - 4:10pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Hey Ted - What do you think about the boat numbers that show just faintly on the turrets of both vessels? It almost looks like they were originally white w/black dropshadow and then oversprayed green.....
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Sep 18, 2011 - 4:20pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Will;
You might be right, but you know how color interpertation goes with these black and white photos. Green and black is a new one to me. Normally with this type of photo, I would go with RON 9's gray with black shaded numbers or it might be discolored white and black.
There is always the odd ball example though, such as PT 134 RON 7 and most of the RON 33 boats which had red with white shaded numbers.
Take care,
TED
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT134RON25LTEDWINPOPEwatchesasacrewmemberpaintsarailwaycaronthescoreboard24March1945.jpg[/image]
PT134 RON25 LT EDWIN POPE watches as a crewmember paints a railway car on the scoreboard. Photo was taken on or about 25 March1945
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 18, 2011 - 7:26pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Gents,
Again thanks for all the feedback.
Jeff, please continue to nit-pick....I tend to be a bit anal about detail and your inputs are very welcome. Now that you mention the cut-out on the aft gun tub I am noticing it in pictures..that will be added forthwith. You're right about the vent funnels being a little on the thin side. They actually scale out at 5" in diameter....I considered correct this but decided to go with the kit supplied parts. I know that there is a good deal of detailing remaining on the hatch cover; I posted the picture to get exactly the feedback I got.....it will be easier to correct things now in a basic condition and not have to worry about breaking detail. Please keep the observations and critiques coming.
Ted, thanks for the great picture. It should be fairly easy to work up an air scoop for the chart house. I'm going to take a leap here and assume that the scoop would be on both sides. I'm going to have to spend sometime thinking about how to deal with the wherry.
Hadly, thanks for the observation about the engineroom vent. I can very easily pull the screen out. I wasn't sure about that and had been unable to find a picture that definitely answered the question for me so I went with it.
Thanks all,
Bruce Ross
Posted By: bwross | Posted on: Sep 19, 2011 - 6:50pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Nice work on a good subject.
My only concern is about the width of the engine room hatch/vent. When I was building the 495 boat I found that instead of the wide hatch it had the earlier narrow hatch and I had to cut down the kit parts. From the photo it is hard to tell if your boat should have the narrow hatch/vent or not but I think, going by boat numbers, the narrow version should be concidered.
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Sep 20, 2011 - 4:54am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Bruce, you're a better man than i, you take the comments very well and very curtously, I commend you. Please be assured no one hear means any ill will, picky or harassment, they are just being very detailed for you. Keep up the good work young man.
As I have understood (ducati650 comments on the width) the later 500 series ELCO's had the wide hatches, and the older as well as retrofit kits the hacth was narrow. Probably the width of the original low profile hatch but just taller to allow for greater air intake. Maybe Al, Frank, Jeff or Dick might be able to add more or confirm.
BJO
Posted By: Black Ops | Posted on: Sep 20, 2011 - 11:25am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Cool Bruce, you're a man after my own heart.
Ducati and BJO have the right of it, the hatch should be 31" wide as opposed to the hatch on PT's 565-624 which was 48".
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 20, 2011 - 5:02pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Well I guess I operate under the theory that if you ask for critiques and feedback then you should be ready for the unvarnished truth; if you can't handle it don't ask. And I would much rather have someone give me the truth then tell me stories.
Also, I want geniue feedback because I approach a modeling project to produce a finished product that if shown to a crewmember they could point to a spot and say "I set my coffee mug right there and....." you get the idea.
I did buld the hatch/vent for the engine room at the 48" width instead of the 31"; guess I'll be rebuilding that one.....that's okay it'll go faster this time since I now know how to do it!
As an example of the approach I take to model building here is a picture of an AVP that I'm working on in 1/144 scale. Its a bit slow because of all the detailing but when you're building is scratch that's what happens.
[image]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/bwross1/USS%20Cook%20Inlet/PortBow.jpg[/image]
thanks again for all the feedback and encouragement; this really is an outstanding forum for information.
Bruce Ross
Posted By: bwross | Posted on: Sep 20, 2011 - 6:11pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Ted,
I've looked at that photo of the 146 next to the 131 a bunch of times over the years, but never really noticed the funnel-shaped cover over the 146's starboard-side charthouse port!
It sure looks like that device would be a wind/air vent to the charthouse, although I didn't think those ports were meant to open. They did have flip-up covers inside to block light (as I'm sure you already know).
I wouldn't think it'd be too difficult to remove the glass in the ports, though. The "funnel" cover would seem to be a great idea to get air into the charthouse, particularly while underway.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Sep 20, 2011 - 6:54pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
I could be totally wrong but somewhere I remember reading that the radar scope electronics ran hot and was located in the area of that port. The reference was that the scoop was added to try to direct more air to help cool the electronics. Again, i could be totally mixed up and don't want to spread misinformation but this seems sort of reasonable to me.
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Sep 21, 2011 - 5:22am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Think this is the thread you are refering to.
[url]http://www.ptboats.org/cgi-local/sitenetbbs/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=2200&sc=20&pg=1&x=0[/url]
Gary
Posted By: Gary Paulsen | Posted on: Sep 21, 2011 - 7:39am
Total Posts: 249 | Joined: Feb 14, 2009 - 6:31am
The windows on the chart house sides opened Drew. They were hinged at the top like the blackout panels were. Two clamps at the bottom held them shut.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 21, 2011 - 3:18pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Thanks, Jeff -- didn't know that before!
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Sep 21, 2011 - 8:48pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
