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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: Correct 1/32 Lindberg PT gun tubs?
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=2260



Ahoy there.

Lindberg has two different size .50 cal. gun tubs in their kit. Which one of these two sizes is closest to an accurate scale size gun tub?

Since I have two of these models being worked on I can swap out whichever tub i the worng size and use two close to scale tubs on the model I'm building and then put the undersize or oversize gun tubs on the older model I'm refurbishing.

Thanks and cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Jul 28, 2011 - 5:48pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



The ELCO drawings show the outside diameter of the turret cylinder to be 44". At 1/32 scale, it would be approximately 1 3/8" in diameter.

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jul 28, 2011 - 7:01pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



I turned new tubes from a pvc coupling. That way I could angle the tube properly. I can't recall if either tube in the original kit is correct. The angle was the first thing I wanted to correct when I started my conversion.
If you are diving in this deep, I may have a pair of extra tubes I cut if you are interested.

Dave

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/boater%20dave/DSCF6286.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/boater%20dave/DSCF6285.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/boater%20dave/DSCF6320.jpg[/image]

Dave

Posted By: boater dave | Posted on: Aug 2, 2011 - 7:43am
Total Posts: 18 | Joined: Jan 6, 2011 - 4:40pm



Your doing a fine job. There's hope for this Kit yet. Keep the photos coming, this should be an interesting build..............



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Aug 2, 2011 - 11:57am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Some more mods...

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/boater%20dave/DSCF6472.jpg[/image]
Bridge modifications. Lots of strange things on the Lindy kit.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/boater%20dave/DSCF6473.jpg[/image]
Checking the height with avilable crew.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/boater%20dave/DSCF6606.jpg[/image]
Aft deck modifications. The original deck was cut away to make access hatch for rudder link. The raised section with the 40mm lifts off.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/boater%20dave/DSCF6470.jpg[/image]
Original aft deck concept, including the early engine room hatch, plus the tube pads. The aft tubes were replaced with boxes, but the pads remained, setting the boxes at different heights.

Dave

Posted By: boater dave | Posted on: Aug 3, 2011 - 12:42pm
Total Posts: 18 | Joined: Jan 6, 2011 - 4:40pm



Dave,

Looks great. The old Lindberg kit is really coming along. My wife got me that kit back in the early '80's, and its been sitting in the garage since we moved into our house back in 1984!

One suggestion -- get a couple of the Italeri 1/35th scale PT crew figures kits to man your boats. They look a lot better than the Lindberg ones.



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Aug 3, 2011 - 3:14pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Ahoy there Boater Dave.

I see that you have the starboard gun tub tilted forward. Was that gun tub so tilted on all the early 80" Elco PT-103 Class of boats? Mine isn't glued down yet so I can still corect it if it should be tilted forward.

Thanks for shariing the images of your work with us.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Aug 6, 2011 - 2:31pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



The turrets on the 103-class 80' Elcos were flat to the deck, not tilted (as they were on the later 80's), right?





Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Aug 6, 2011 - 6:45pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



The 103-196 and 314-367 were square to the base line, later boats had a three degree tilt forwards on both the fore and aft turrets.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Aug 7, 2011 - 4:58am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



It was my understanding that the tops were level with the waterline. If they tilted even farther forward to compensate for an increased angle during high speed on some boats it would make sense to me. But I am by no means an authority on the boats.
And as to the reference of the baseline, this would be the waterline? So none of the boats had the tops parallel to the deck, right? My plastic molding background can explain why the kit is made the way it is.

Dave

Dave

Posted By: boater dave | Posted on: Aug 10, 2011 - 4:32pm
Total Posts: 18 | Joined: Jan 6, 2011 - 4:40pm



Yes Dave, the base line is parallel to the waterline and about 5.25" below the lowest part of the hull. Elco used it as a construction reference on drawings like the frame offsets and heights of the day room and chart house.

The tops of the turrets were square to the base cylinder so neither design was parallel to the deck.

One interesting construction detail I found was that the turret base cylinders were constructed from three layers of 9/64" (0.141") birch plywood glued on a mold. Mighty thin at about 3/8", common knowledge had them at 3/4".

Some other turret details from Elco PT 103-196 and 314-367 drawings:

Forward turret center location:
51" starboard of center line.
446.75" aft of foremost point (8 1/4" forward of frame 33).

Aft turret center location:
34" port of boat center line.
672" aft of foremost point (22" aft of frame 47).

Turret height:
39 5/8" from top of coaming to top of machine gun mounting ring.
Measurement taken at inside of turret at forward end.
Top of coaming is about 5 11/16" above deck.

Machine gun mounting ring, sits on top of base:
51 1/2" O.D. x 42 3/4" I.D. x 1/2" thick birch plywood.

Machine gun mounting ring outer skirt:
50" I.D., 3/4" x 2 1/8" steam bent oak.

Under the machine gun mounting ring, between the base cylinder and the outer skirt, were twelve 3" x 3" square aluminum tube support brackets. These were 3 1/2" height at the base cylinder with the bottoms tapered to 2" height at the outer skirt. Between the brackets were 3/4" x 1 3/8" oak segments mounted to the base cylinder with tops flush with the bracket tops.

Inside the turrets were two floors, a watertight 5/8" plywood bottom floor which rested on the coaming at the forward end, and a top floor / depress firing step which had a hole cut in the center to form a 10" wide ring. The top of the upper floor was 9" above the top of the bottom floor.

I hope this helps, keep up the good work!




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Aug 11, 2011 - 4:17am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am




A simple illustration to demonstrate what Jeff has detailed.



[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Turret_Compare-01.jpg[/image]






Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Aug 11, 2011 - 10:38am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Thanks for the insider info. With the ammount of information available on this site one could build a very, very, detailed model. It's tempting. And this raises the question that if all this info is availble, why are the kits always so bad? Some things need to be altered because of molding limitations, but still.
I saw on another thread here the detailed engine room on a 1:72 model. Amazing. And with 3D computer modeling and cheap laser cutters and 3D printers a person could replicate almost the entire boat down to correct planking and frames.
When I was building the 196 boat I asked a bunch of questions on another site. Most of them were about general construction, like how the foot steps, hand rails and masts were built. I didn't find this site until later. I am still looking for a subject boat for my other Lindy PT. An early war example, with tubes forward and depth charges aft.

Dave

Posted By: boater dave | Posted on: Aug 14, 2011 - 6:35am
Total Posts: 18 | Joined: Jan 6, 2011 - 4:40pm




Thanks for the insider info. With the ammount of information available on this site one could build a very, very, detailed model. It's tempting. And this raises the question that if all this info is availble, why are the kits always so bad? Some things need to be altered because of molding limitations, but still.
I saw on another thread here the detailed engine room on a 1:72 model. Amazing. And with 3D computer modeling and cheap laser cutters and 3D printers a person could replicate almost the entire boat down to correct planking and frames.
When I was building the 196 boat I asked a bunch of questions on another site. Most of them were about general construction, like how the foot steps, hand rails and masts were built. I didn't find this site until later. I am still looking for a subject boat for my other Lindy PT. An early war example, with tubes forward and depth charges aft.

Dave


Hi there Boater Dave.

Here are some of my thoughts as to why I feel that the level of detail is what it is on some maufacturers kits.

Cost to the purchaser.

The 1/35 scale Italeri PT-596 kit is about $150.00 now in the average hobby shop in the area here where I live. If this kit was much more detailed it would be considerably more expensive and thus less affordable to many more modellers..

What the model builder wants.

Many model builders are quite content to turn out a model that represents the subject. They are not looking for an exact minature replica of a particular boat as it appeared at a particualar period of time. Many are even content and happy to build a model that has different features from differing time periods mixed together.

What the model is designed for.

Many modellers greatly enjoy building the 1/32 scale Lindberg PT-109 kit because it is simple to assemble, has few parts that can be knocked off in transport and in use as radio control boat model.

I'm positive that if Italeri were to offer a simpler version of their 80' foot Elco boat such as the PT-103 Class, at a lower price that reflects not having the 40 mm Bofor gun and other additional arnaments, that they would sell many of them to both static boat modellers and those who want to get into radio control inexpensively. A PT-103 Class kit from Italeri that retailed for $100.00 would be fantastic as that is about what the 1/32 scale Lindberg PT kit sells for here.

The age the kit is intended for.

I really think that the Lindberg kit was designed for the young and/or inexperienced modeller. It was also designed to be motorised and/or radio controlled. As such many details were left off it mad many of the parts were designed for rough handling by the modeller.

If the Italeri kit is built as a radio controlled model there are an awful lot of very delicate parts that can be knocked off and possibly lost just launching and retrieving the model from whatever body of water one uses.

You are planning on possibly building another Lindberg PT boat model with just the forward torpedo tubes and depth charges where the aft torpedo tubes were? I built my first Lindberg PT boat model in that configuration. I built the forward torpedo tube racks so that they can be positioned outboard as well as in the inboard stowed position. There are image of it somewhere on this forum in a message I posted about it. I'm not sure where that message is. The images are in my Peter Tare Builder photo album over on the images ection of this forum.

One last thing to consider is the time frame a model manufacturer has between deciding to create a kit and releasing it. I think that Lindberg rushed their research into their 1/32 kit and hastened to get it out to capitalize on the release of the theatrical film PT-109 and thus did not do as much research as they might have wanted to. They also seemed to have cut corners to speed developement by using the hull and helm from their Chris Craft model. I say that because images I have seen of the 1/20 scale Lindberg Chris Craft (Sport Fisherman cabin cruiser) appears to use the identical hull that their PT -109 kit does and the helm in the latter kit looks like something you'd find on a civilian vessel and the large size of that helm is much more in keeping with a scale size of 1/20 than it is of 1/32 scale.

So there you have some of my thoughts as to why some model kits are not as accurate as some of the purist would like.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Aug 14, 2011 - 9:48am
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



Hi there Boater Dave.

Here is the link to the thread that has images of my PT-105 type boat under refurbishing.

[url]http://www.ptboats.org/cgi-local/sitenetbbs/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=1797&sc=20&pg=1&x=0[/url]

Not much work has been done since those images were taken. I do have the depth charges though they were not on the model when I took mot of the images. The depth chargers were made from 1/35 scale Tamiya fuel drums with the inner section of 1/32 Wlaker Duster roadwheels used for the ends.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Aug 14, 2011 - 10:20am
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm



Nice work, just getting started in PTs and looking around for what can be done with some of these kits.

Cheers!

Chuck

The older I get, the better I was....

Posted By: Chuck Holton | Posted on: Sep 12, 2011 - 10:33pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered