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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Engine room communications
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Gentlemen:
How did the bridge communicate with the engine room? Was the purposeof the communication mainly to change dirrection of the props?
Dave V
Posted By: David VerValin | Posted on: Apr 17, 2011 - 9:09am
Total Posts: 7 | Joined: Feb 5, 2011 - 9:19am
The Bridge communicated with the engine room by innunciators located on the engine panel for the engineer. These guages read FORWARD, NEUTRAL, and REVERSE. The Skipper, using his throttle quadrants could put each engine into whatever mode he wished. The noise of the engines at flank speed was too much for anyone to hear, but they did have an engine bell for emgergency power situations. I had heard that some of the boats had hooked up electric power phones that ran from the bridge to the engineer,. Sound phones went to the chart house, although most times the Skipper could communicate with the boats quartermaaster by simply opening the chart house door, located in the cockpit.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Apr 17, 2011 - 10:40am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Hi,
I was reading an instruction manual yesterday that was part of the Motor Mac Training program at Melville. In it, they review the communication signals between the engine room and the helm using the push button signal bell/light. Each station has a push button which sounds a bell/buzzer/light at the other station (except no light on the helm)
Anyway they have a standard system of 1,2,3,4 and 5 buzzes that mean different things. We use a similar system on the PT658. It is SO LOUD in the engineroom with those 3 packards running nothing else would work. Also Frank is correct there is a dial indicating the engine order telegraph that shows the order from the helm labeled AHEAD, STOP, ASTERN. this uses arrows to point at the word.
I will have to look again to make sure, but I think the buzzer system goes something like this:
1 buzz= get ready
2 buzz-= pick up the phone (I dont know how good you would hear a phone though!)
3 buzz=start engines
4 buzz=ready to reverse
5 buzz= shut them down
I hope this helps! Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 17, 2011 - 1:41pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Thanks guys, this is a big help.
Dave V
Posted By: David VerValin | Posted on: Apr 17, 2011 - 8:25pm
Total Posts: 7 | Joined: Feb 5, 2011 - 9:19am
Hi David I have the book in front of me now so I will transpose what it says here. The book is a collection of copied typewritten small chapters. It looks like it is about 200 pages or so with some drawings. The chapter this is from is called "Four Typical Engineering Squadron Orders" and has the following parts:
I. Spare parts to be carried
II. Daily Checks
III. Engineering Log and
IV. Signals From and To Engine Room
Signals from and to engineroom. The following engine room signalsshall be used by all boat engineers, boat captains and boat handlers:
A. From the Bridge to the Engine Room
1 buzz - standby
2 buzzes - answer phone
3 buzzes - start engines
4 buzzes - operate mufflers
5 buzzes - secure engines
B. From Engine Room to Bridge
1 buzz - while stopped - engines are ready to get underway
1 buzz - while underway - engines ready to operate at full throttle
2 buzzes - answer phone
3 buzzes - engine casualty
OK so this is better than me trying to remember what i read as I was falling asleep yesterday! Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 18, 2011 - 12:02am
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Jerry
Glad you posted this. Many of us were somewhat unsure as to the signaling meanings on the boats. In talking with many Motor Macs over the years, it seems each had their own way of doing things. Many related to me that they could not really hear the buzzer/bells, but relied heavily on the board. Some, as I related to in my earlier post had siad they had power phones rigged, which did help. In most cases, those three Packard Engines must have made it near impossible to hear signals. Next time you get the chance Jerry, head into the engine room of PT-658, when she is running at her top speed, and tell me if you think you could hear those buzzers going off.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Apr 18, 2011 - 4:15am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
From Dick and Al's Elco parts catalog, here are some details of the Elco engine room telegraph. The catalog indicates they went from mechanical to hydraulic for PT's 486-544 and 731-760, and gives a parts list for field conversions to hydraulic.
A Federal Electric Co. Resonating #56 horn backed up the telegraph. It's the same horn that's used as the navigation horn so it should have been at least ample to signal over the engines. The more I learn, the more admiration I have for the Motor Macs...
From the catalog, for all PTs except 565-624, 545 is missing also:
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/Elco80PartsCatalogEngineRoomTelegraphs.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 18, 2011 - 6:03am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Jeff, I always enjoy reading your responses. As ALWAYS this one has such great, detailed, accurate info.
Posted By: TheBridge | Posted on: Apr 18, 2011 - 8:41pm
Total Posts: 318 | Joined: Nov 22, 2009 - 3:04pm
Thanks Bridge! And a big thanks to Dick and Al for digitizing the catalog and making it accessible to us.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 19, 2011 - 4:33am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
If I'm not mistaken this is the drive direction for the engines as signaled from the bridge to the engine room's control panel. This is a photo from the Portland's group PT658 (Higgins). The directional arrows have three stops, it appears the top up position is STOP.
Dick . . .
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/control.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Apr 19, 2011 - 6:31pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Ahoy there mates.
We need a 1/32 scale styrene Higgins boat so we can go crazy super detailing it with these wonderful images and drawings.
Cheers from Peter
"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"
Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Apr 19, 2011 - 6:55pm
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm
This is apropos of nothing other than the observation of a non-PT boat enthusiast on the engine room communications system of WWII PTs:
While watching last May's TCM broadcast of "PT 109" with my youngest brother on our brother-in-law's huge-screen TV, my brother was quite amused by the motor macs having to change the gears when prompted by the bridge's annunciators.
He laughed quite spontaneously and exclaimed "They had to throw the levers like trained monkeys!"
I would never have thought of it that way, but, he got a kick out it...
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Apr 20, 2011 - 1:29pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Shipmates,
Here is a drawing of the Higgins PT Boat Engine Order Telegraph. Notice it shows the 3 words, AHEAD, STOP, and ASTERN. These 3 words are repeated on the Engineroom Gage Board. That is what the arrows point to when they are moved by the telegraph. I was not aware that the Elco Telegraph has the letters A, N and B. That must mean AHEAD, NEUTRAL, and BACK I am just guessing on that one. I hope this helps. Jerry PT658 Portland
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/Telegraph.jpg[/image]
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 20, 2011 - 7:23pm
Total Posts: 1472 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
According to Dick and Al's Elco drawings, the indicators on the bridge throttle quadrant spelled it out too Jerry, although slightly different; "Ahead, Neutral, Astern".
Shortening these to "A, N, A" in the engine room confused the monkeys so they had to go with "B". But they thought that meant "Banana" and it pissed them off when they didn't get one so they were replaced by humans.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 21, 2011 - 12:40am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
I wanted to share this rare and seldom-seen photo of JFK in PT 109's cockpit since there was a discussion of the 80' Elco boat's throttle quadrant in general and the speed control lever in particular.
The photo is from the book LIFE in Camelot - The Kennedy Years, edited by Philip B. Kunhardt, Jr. (Little, Brown and Company, 1988), and I've never seen it published anywhere else --even the curators at the JFK Library & Museum don't have a copy of it in their JFK photos from the South Pacific. It was obviously taken at the same time as the other two famous "JFK in the cockpit of PT 109" photos.
Drew
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Drew%20Cook/Rare_JFK_in_PT_109_cockpit.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jun 30, 2011 - 4:03pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Thanks for the pic, Drew.... I don't think I've ever seen it before either.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:21pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
You're welcome, Will. I've always liked that photo, but have never seen it published anywhere but that book.
I think its kind of neat to see the 26 year-old JFK's hands actually on the wheel and throttles of the 109...
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jul 1, 2011 - 12:51pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Great Shot Drew, I wish it was available for reprinting because it would really go great with my planned Kennedy Exhibit...........
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jul 1, 2011 - 1:37pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Frank,
The JFK Museum & Library folks speculate that a developed print of the photo may have been sent to an unknown family member or friend, who provided it uncredited.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jul 3, 2011 - 1:34pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am