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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: MK. XIII TORPEDO IGNITION
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=2134



I KNOW THAT WHEN THE STARTER TOGGLE WAS LIFTED (PULLED) THE COMPRESSED AIR AND ALCOHOL VALVES WERE OPENED AND THE OILPUMPS, FUEL PUMPS AND GYROS WERE SET IN MOTION. MY QUESTION IS ' WHAT WAS THE METHOD OF FUEL/AIR IGNITION? WAS IT A 'QUICKMATCH' OR FLINT AND STEEL COMBINATION?

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Mar 26, 2011 - 8:49pm
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am



Go here:[url]http://www.hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/part2.htm#pg55[/url]. This is the manual for the MK14 torpedo, a contemporary of the MK13. Both were steam-powered and may have had similar ignition systems.

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 5:41am
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Steve and AL,
Here is the section from the Mk13 Tech manual. Jerry
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/igniter.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Jerry%20Gilmartin/ignitera.jpg[/image]



Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 8:49am
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



THANKS AL. FROM WHAT I COULD GET FROM THE MANUAL, 250 PSI AIR PUSHES ON THE DIAPHRAM UNTIL IT RELEASES THE DUAL FIRING PINS AGAINST THE PRIMER CAPS. THE FLASH FROM THE PRIMER CAPS GOES DOWN THE FLASH TUBES AND IGNITES THE END OF A 'QUICKMATCH' OR SOLID ROCKET TYPE GRAIN. THE PRESSURE FROM THE COMBUSTION POPS OFF THE METALLIC SEAL. THE ENDBURNING GRAIN PROVIDES IGNITION FOR THE FUEL/AIR/ WATER MIXTURE IN THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER THROUGHOUT THE RUN. IS THAT ABOUT IT?

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 9:14am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am



THANKS GERRY. THE IGNITOR LASTS ABOUT TEN SECONDS.
I WOULD HAVE GOT IT RIGHT AFTER READING YOUR MATERIAL, BUT I WAS STUDYING AL'S MANUAL.
THANKS AGAIN GENTELMEN.

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 9:20am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am



Thanks, Gerry. Here are the relevant pages from the MK14 manual:
[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/ig_0002.jpg[/IMaGe]
[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/ig_0001.jpg[/IMaGe]
[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/ig_0003.jpg[/IMaGe]

I'd be happy to scan the MK13 manual if you're willing to loan it....??

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 10:04am
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Hi Al and Steve,
From reading the text of both manuals, it seems that they work about the same way, so I bet that Al surmised correctly that they are pretty much the identical parts. I wish there was a better photograph of it! Anyway, Al I wrote you an email about scanning the Mk13 Manual. Good detective work Steve! I wonder what the actual chemical substance was for this "quickfuse" stuff. Solid rocket fuel made from what? Any ideas you guys?

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 12:05pm
Total Posts: 1469 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



I'M JUST GUESSING, BUT IT MIGHT BE A COMPRESSED GRAIN OF SMOKELESS PROPELLANT OR COMPRESSED BLACK POWDER. AS LONG AS THE GRAIN HAS NO CRACKS OR AIR BUBBLES IN IT, IT WILL BURN LIKE ROCKET FUEL. I'M LEANING TOWARD BLACK POWDER. ( I'M A CHEAPSKATE).

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 1:06pm
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am




I wish there was a better photograph of it! Jerry Gilmartin


Jerry,

The photos on the HNSA site are much clearer than what I uploaded, so you might want to visit it.

Al Ross




Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 1:22pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



I BELIEVE it was black powder Steve.

I mean, wasn't that what flashed up sometimes and gave the boat's position away?

Isn't that one of the reasons why the PTs went to the Mark XIII torpedoes in roll-off racks? Yeah, I realize another reason was to save weight with the added guns ...

But wasn't the flashing issue another factor?



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 1:26pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



GARTH;
THE FLASH PROBLEM WAS ATRIBUTED TO THE BLACKPOWDER CHARGE USED TO EXPELL THE MARK 8 TORPEDOS FROM THEIR TUBE. THE CHARGE LOOKED LIKE THE BASE OF A 5 INCH SHELL CUT OFF JUST LONG ENOUGH TO FIT INTO THE BREECH ABOVE THE TUBE. IF THE CHARGE WASN'T SET OFF ELECTRICALLY BY THE SKIPPER, A TORPEDOMAN WOULD WHACK THE INITIATOR HEAD WITH A WOODEN MALLET. SOMETIMES THE CHARGE WOULD SET THE GREASE INSIDE THE TUBE ON FIRE. SOME CREWS WOULD PUT A CANVAS CURTAIN OVER THE END OF THE TUBE TO CUT DOWN ON THE FLASH.


Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 2:14pm
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am



Here's a classroom drawing of an igniter done by Master Chief Jack Duncan, retired, who served as torpedoman on PT 103 from 1943 to 1944. Jack also served on PT 62 and PT 318:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/IgniterForTorpedoMk8DwgJackDuncan.jpg[/image]





Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 2:20pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



GOOD WORK JEFF;
ACCORDING TO MASTER CHIEF DUNCAN'S DRAWING THE BLACKPOWDER/CELLULOSE, MAGNESIUM POWDER AND PARAFIN MIXTURE WOULD HAVE GIVEN VERY HOT AND RELATIVELY LONG LASTING SPARKS.
I'M AMAZED AT THE AMOUNT OF ENGINEERING AND GENIUS THAT WENT INTO THESE TORPEDOS.

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Mar 27, 2011 - 2:50pm
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am



Steve,

Do me a favor please?

Email me off-site, the email that is on your "profile" here is not valid ...

I would like to ask you something about something unrelated to this topic and which I'd like to not talk about here.

Thank you,

Garth



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Mar 28, 2011 - 6:15am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Thanks Steve, I think they are amazing pieces of work too. I really enjoy the photos in the manuals of the inner workings, especially the early torpedos.

If interested, Jack sent me 7 other torpedo class drawings that can be downloaded here:
[url]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/TorpedoDrawingsJackDuncan.zip[/url]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Mar 28, 2011 - 8:12am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



GARTH;
PROFILE HAS BEEN CORRECTED AND I CORRECTED YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS ON MY END.

JEFF;
THANKS FOR THE INFO. THESE DRAWINGS CLEAR AWAY THE TECHNICAL MUD FOUND IN MANUALS.

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Mar 28, 2011 - 10:17am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am