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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf

ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102

ť Topic: Ted found the red sterned ELCO!!!!
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=2099

Go to: [url]http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675049833_United-states-warship_Landing-Craft-Infantry_patrol-boat_blinker-lights.[/url]

Bravo Zulu, Ted. I was just not finding it and getting somewhat peeved...[:-grin-:]

Al Ross

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Feb 11, 2011 - 8:08pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Now that's what is known as awesome Detective work. Case closed on the RED STRIPE stern caper...........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 11, 2011 - 11:21pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I visited the site link Al gave us and create a couple of screen captures of the video clip. One showing an Elco with the red stripe on the stern and the other showing a pair of Higgins with the yellow striped bow.

Dick . . . .

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Red-Stern-01.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/yellow-bow-01.jpg[/image]

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Feb 11, 2011 - 11:44pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

So is the red striped Elco a Ron 29 boat ? And I wonder what Ron the two Higgins boats
belong to !!

Steve

Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 6:20am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am

OK ...

So, how many boats in that theater have that stripe on their sterns? We do have photographic evidence pointing to the fact that not all boats in the theater had them.

Any comments pertaining to that?

Hey Dick? Could you email me off-site, please?

Garth

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 6:22am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Nuge210,

To answer your question; I think I can make out 303 on the Higgins in the foreground, so that means the Higgins boats were in Ron 22?

Garth

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 7:06am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

ALCON;
Sorry Garth, the Higgins PT boat in the forground is PT 305(USS SUDDEN JERK) look at the shape of the name on the bow, and the 305 on the wind screen. The boat in the background is PT 312(Bacchante) again notice the bow, it has a figure on it in the other shots, the only boat in RON 22 that had "Nose Art" on the bow was PT 312, she had a Mermaid riding a Swordfish. You can also see the RON 22 emblem on both gun tubs.
Steve; yes the Elco PT is a RON 29 boat, but what one I have no clue, thanks to those two guys standing between the 40mm mount and the back of the engine room hatch/vent. These two guys never move the whole time the boat is pulling away from the camera. Damn couldn't they have imagined that there would be a message board about PT's and we would be looking at their boat in color 47 years later, trying to figure out which boat it really is!!!!!! Just kidding

I already sent the photo down to Bob at PT 305 last night around 11pm, with a quick message saying that this photo and the film should really help with there authentic June 1944 paint job!
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 9:03am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

HA.........

Well, I said I thought I saw 303 on that boat, the number isn't that clear in that shot; so, a 5 looked like a 3 to me ... I apologize ... at least I got the squadron correct and the theater of operations right.

Dick W, again, please email me offsite ... I'd like to ask you a question that I do not want to pose in public. Thank you.

Garth

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 11:27am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Yea, Ted, frame 125 & 126 you can clearly see she is the 305.

And thanks also Garth.

Steve

Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 11:35am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am

What Al said. That is just excellent. I'm sure Steve will be pleased that the yellow nose and red tail hold up.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 4:48pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

What was the purpose ? Aerial identification?

Posted By: Mark Culp | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 4:57pm
Total Posts: 135 | Joined: Oct 15, 2006 - 2:56pm

Nice link Al thanks a load

SH

Posted By: Hadly | Posted on: Feb 12, 2011 - 11:05pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Mark;
Yes aerial Identification was the purpose.
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 13, 2011 - 10:41am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

As for which boats had the red panel and when, there are two photos that would help us if we had scans of the actual print - that of the boats at Bastia on page 44 of Vic's book and that on page 10 of US MOSQUITO FLEET. Neither one is particularly clear as printed, but look like the original print was quite clear.

In the Bastia photo, all of the US boats in the photo, including the 63' crash boat by the seawall, have the bow panel. That suggests that the markings were specific to certain vessel type, theatre, and time period. The sterns on the ELCOs by the seawall and a few in the nest are sufficiently visible to see the panel if it is there. You can almost make out the boat numbers on the charthouses as well.

In the second photo, the panel is clearly visible on the middle boat, the number of which appears to be 563. The number on the left boat is less visible but seems to be either 552 or 562. The just visible boat to the far right appears to start with 56. A clearer photo would give us a better idea.

If the second photo shows what I think it does, it would also give us a general idea of how long the panel was carried. Note that the roll-off racks have been removed and that two depth charge racks are vislble on the stern of the center boat. The number and location of the latter are consistent with the configuration of the ELCOs sent to the USSR (shown on the ELCO plans for 731), This may be a photo of the RON 29 boats being readied for transfer to the Soviets, which occurred during the spring of 1945.

So, Victor, do you have a clear print of your photo that you can scan for us? And, does anyone work closely enough with Germantown to get a scan of the other photo?

Al

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Feb 13, 2011 - 12:27pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Al: In addition, it looks to me like the lefthand bow-on Bastia boat is the 561, then an unidentified boat, then the 563, then who knows?

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 13, 2011 - 4:04pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

The second boat from the left is a THUNDERBOLT boat. If you enlarge the photo, you can see the shadow of the four barrels on the deck. I think the outboard boat near the seawall is also mounts a THUNDERBOLT.

Al

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Feb 13, 2011 - 4:40pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Al;
Just got word from Bob who is with the PT 305 restoration team. He pointed out some great observations. 1. the PT 305 skipper in the photo is Dick Hamilton and his exec is Charles H. Murray, not Purdy and Morris(as I previously stated).
2. look at the boat in the backround with the red stripe, now look at the darker paint on the starboard stern.
3. Now look at the paint scheme on PT 309, again she was the only boat in RON 22 with this paint scheme(it sort of reminds me of the Santa Fe "Blue Goose" steam engine, or more the art deco lines of the Packard LeBaron V-12 Coupe, or the lines of the 1938 Delahaye 135M or the 1939 Delahaye 165M)

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT305LTPURDYANDENSMORRISBASTIA1944.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT309unknPT306onothersideofpier1944.jpg[/image]

take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 13, 2011 - 9:30pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT305LTPURDYANDENSMORRISBASTIA1944.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/PT309unknPT306onothersideofpier1944.jpg[/image]

somtimes this really kicks my a- -!!!

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 13, 2011 - 9:40pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Don't know if this was posted before (I couldn't find it in a search) but som emore film of the red sterned PTs.

[url]http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675060622_ruins-in-town_harbor-area_United-States-flags_rubble-on-street_damaged-buildings[/url]

Charlie

Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Jun 12, 2011 - 3:30pm
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm

Charlie;
Good find!! Steve should like this one. These look to be all RON 15 boats, as they were the the only ones shipped to the Med with tubes, RON 22 were shipped to Med with roll off racks.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jun 12, 2011 - 5:13pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Hey Charlie,

Many thanks for posting. That is a nice find !!! I'm not sure if I ever saw a color shot of a Ron 15 boat before. And they sure look to me, like they have red on the sterns. Darn shame I can't make out any particular boat.

That is most definately Palermo harbor, so I'm guessing the movie was taken sometime in August, '43. The first three boats arrived in Palermo on July 24th.

I enjoyed, in the first few frames, the mines sitting on the dock. At least I guess that's what they are.

[:-cheers-:]

Steve

Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Jun 13, 2011 - 4:54pm
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am

Any idea why they were painted like that?

Ray

Posted By: Ray Wilbur | Posted on: Jun 14, 2011 - 9:03am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Ray;
they were painted with a red stripe(looks like 24-36 inches wide) on the stern and yellow from the bull nose to just aft of the forward hatch. This was for Aerial Recognition purposes.
take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jun 14, 2011 - 12:00pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am