The PT Boat Forum
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi


» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf


» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102


» Topic: Download - An Administrative History of PT's in World War II
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1981



New Preliminary Issue is ready for download - - -

Preliminary issue of “An Administrative history of PT’s in World War II” has been completed and a download link below is furnished. The Navy document has been formatted as a book rather then in its original form as double spaced typewriter produced document. It has been reduced from 355 pages to 196 pages. On page three is an explanation in more detail as to its form now.

It is now a very easy read and is even searchable in Adobe Acrobat Reader. The document is filled with interesting events and historical details composed when PT boats were still very fresh in everyone’s mind – a must read now that it can actually be read without causing migraines. However it is still not finished. It is still lacking over 20 photos (see list below), I fear some will never be recaptured. But your help is greatly desired. Either email me photos or if you know where the photo might be in another publication please tell me where. In many case a substitute image will have to be used in place of the actual. Just try to find one that is very similar if possible.

The Download link is below:

[url]http://www.gdinc.com/Preliminary_Admin_History_PTBoat.html[/url]

Also many, many thanks to all that help out recapturing this document, the task by one’s self would have been immense.

Thanks,
Dick . . . .

PS: I’ll be checking in at the Looney Bin and be keeping Will Day company for a while. I hope he’s not violent anymore.

Below is a list of the photos needed; the old microfilm version is included, in place in the preliminary issue of this document.

Figure 2: PT’s 3 & 4 Under Construction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42
Figure 5: MTBRon Two 70’ Elco . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47
Figure 6: Elco 77 Foot PT 20 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
Figure 8: 72’ Huckins PT 69 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55
Figure 12: MTBRon One in Miami Florida . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 62
Figure 14: Higgins Production Line . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79
Figure 18: Detail Of Elcoplane On PT 487 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 91
Figure 19: Graphic Portrait Of PT 487’s Turning Ability . . . . . . . . . 92
Figure 20: “PPS” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 93
Figure 21: Stern View Of Elco With Elcoplane . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94
Figure 22: Aerial View of MTBSTC (early) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 95
Figure 23: Aerial View of MTBSTC (a little later) . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . 96
Figure 24: Aerial View of MTBSTC (later) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . 97
Figure 25: Austin Trainer’s Bridge Constructed At Elco . . . . . . . . 107
Figure 31: U.S. Naval Station, Taboga . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 151
Figure 33: Agp-I U.S.S. Niagara . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 163
Figure 34: The U.S.S. Niagara Under Air Attack . . . . . . . . . . . . . 164
Figure 37: LST Type AGP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . 169
Figure 40: C-1 Type Agp . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . 174
Figure 41: A PT Being Hoisted Aboard C-1 Type Tender . . . . . . 175
Figure 42: Mtb Ron One On Board For Overseas Shipment .. . . 178
Figure 43: 70’ Vosper PT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179






Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Oct 26, 2010 - 11:29pm
Total Posts: 919 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Dick,
I'll send you pix of MTBSTC.



Charlie

Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Oct 27, 2010 - 4:26am
Total Posts: 484 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm



Dick
Have sent a mutitude of photos to you this morning, which I hope you can use..........



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Oct 27, 2010 - 6:25am
Total Posts: 3141 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Dick

Born violent...

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 27, 2010 - 8:01am
Total Posts: 1858 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Dick;
Great job! But, I have found a few boo boos:
PG 45 fig 4 needs to switched with PG 51 fig 6.
PG 63 fig 12 is actually MTBRON One at Pearl Harbor, early 1942.
Fig 42 is really MTBRON 3 on board USS GUADALUPE AO-32 bound for Cavite Naval Base Manilla, P.I. September 1941
Otherwise it looks good, but adding several more photos in all the chapters would make this a really nice book to have!
take care,
TED



Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Oct 27, 2010 - 12:50pm
Total Posts: 2841 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am



Frank, thanks a million a really big help. Please Others, keep'em coming.

Ted, thanks for the boo boos. Yes my thought exactly. However I was torn between keeping it pretty much virgin, or expanding on it. My thoughts right now are leaning on two versions a Virgin and an Expanded. After getting it all laid out I was bothered with the long dry spots. My though is to add more photos pertinent to topic heads.

Would be interested in everyone suggesting photos for the various topic heads. Some topics are very short and might not need a photo where as other might require a couple. All input welcome – no Diva here.

Will, I think secretly, you were the impetuous for the first release of Meat Loaf's "Bat out of Hell" album, tell me, tell me, yeah, yeah, I'm right!
I'm glade you're a good sport, the teasing is out of respect. Of course a shotgun to head brings out the same response or should I say respect.

Hey guys,
take care,
Dick . . .




Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Oct 27, 2010 - 1:32pm
Total Posts: 919 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Hi Dick, this book looks soo good just as if you bought a real book from a big time publisher, its so professional looking. Cn't wait to see the finiished expanded version. A big thanks to you and all the others guys that worked so so hard on the project, you guys are great.
while at your website and click on the PT boat link, I ment to the last time I was there but forgot, but suprise. What great posters specially the later model Higgins and Elcos, the camouflauge ones look really good, in fact I order three poster. They are really beautiful, I sure wish I had that kind of talent. so you should see my order. Thanks for what you and the guys do.
SH



Posted By: Hadly | Posted on: Oct 27, 2010 - 10:18pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered




Thanks SH . . .

The group worked hard on this project and I think it shows through.

Just a quick note, the "PDF" files is searchable by typing-in your word, number or phrase. The search will then lead you to each page where the search request is found. Also note the "Table of Contents" is clickable. If you see a subject that you wish to delve into just click on the table of content list for that subject and it will take you to that page (Chapter).

Thanks to Frank, Gary and Charlie for sending more photos and links to photos. Frank has been working over time on the photos; He might just be the next one to join Will and myself at the Looney Bin.

If anyone has access to any of the “Elcoplane” photos shown in the document, I would really be grateful to use them. I fully realize these photos are rare. I also remember the two ELCO aft shots that Victor posted a while back and will ask him if I can use them. The four images in the document are not from the Navy but rather from “ELCO” they are photographically imprinted with ELCO and an unreadable phrase after the logo in the lower right corner and are clearly from their library. Contacting the NARA has been fruitless.

Thanks all,
Dick . . . .






Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Oct 28, 2010 - 10:29am
Total Posts: 919 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Hi Dick!
I was reading through the new book and noticed a typo.

On Pages 21 and 22 in the last 3 paragraphs of the "Post War Development" section, the Hull Type called "planing" has been inadvertantly changed to say "planning". This occurs at least 3 instances that I saw.

On pages 33-39 several times the names Elco is found in all caps. This is incorrect. It should be Elco not ELCO. Otherwise change every other one as well like HIGGINS vice Higgins and HUCKINS vice Huckins. See my point?

On page 52 in the section labled "Higgins Boat Shows Superiority" in the last sentance of the paragraph the engine manufacturer for PT5 is incorrectly spelled Vim Alert (two separate words) when in reality it was the Vimalert Company (all one word)

On Page 78 The caption is incorrect. It states that Higgins built their hulls upside down and then flipped them over when this is absolutely false! If that is what the original document said, then I think it is high time this inaccuracy be rectified!

OK so I hope you take these as "Constructive" criticism and not "Destructive". Thank you so much for doing this entire project! It is truly awesome.

Jerry





Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Oct 28, 2010 - 8:19pm
Total Posts: 1213 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm




Hi Dick!
I was reading through the new book and noticed a typo.

On Pages 21 and 22 in the last 3 paragraphs of the "Post War Development" section, the Hull Type called "planing" has been inadvertantly changed to say "planning". This occurs at least 3 instances that I saw.

On pages 33-39 several times the names Elco is found in all caps. This is incorrect. It should be Elco not ELCO. Otherwise change every other one as well like HIGGINS vice Higgins and HUCKINS vice Huckins. See my point?

On page 52 in the section labled "Higgins Boat Shows Superiority" in the last sentance of the paragraph the engine manufacturer for PT5 is incorrectly spelled Vim Alert (two separate words) when in reality it was the Vimalert Company (all one word)

On Page 78 The caption is incorrect. It states that Higgins built their hulls upside down and then flipped them over when this is absolutely false! If that is what the original document said, then I think it is high time this inaccuracy be rectified!

Jerry Gilmartin


This is an interesting dilemma. Time and experience shows us that there are a number of errors in the original manuscript. However, if these errors are corrected, then the document is altered and no longer the original Tredinnick and Bennett monograph This compromises the historical integrity and creates problems for future researchres. To preserve its integrity, let me suggest this. Print the original manuscript (errors, typos, etc.) as written, but insert corrections (in a different font) as appropriate.

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Oct 29, 2010 - 2:50am
Total Posts: 897 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm




Jerry . . .

Thanks for the input and typo spotting and clarification of data that prove to be incorrect. Please keep them coming. I have already received several emails discussing some of issues you brought up as well as others. I urge all to examine the document, and if you find faulty facts or typos please send them to me.

Its been a real dilemma for me as to the approach of issues of faulty information or typographical errors. As I had discussed sometime earlier, I might be forced into making two separate publications. One exactly as authored and typed, in other words as near exact copy of the manuscript as it appeared in the microfilm. Including format, font, letter and word spacing as possible with today’s technology readily available to me. Then at the end of the document provide summation pages detailing possible factual issues and typographic errors within the document. Then create a revised & photographically expanded version in a more finished publication format. Then like the above thought above, include a summation page indicating the changes and where they occur in the publication.

Al . . .

I surely agree with you, but I’d rather not include correction within the actual text, I’m afraid it might detract from the original. Rather as I mentioned above, include such notes at the end of the document.

While reading the document, I often wondered how familiar the authors and their clerks were with PT Boats. That could attest to some issues that might be at fault. Also the many interviews and how much thought were given to their objectivity. Such as we see the Commanding officer of MTBSTC having absolute distain for the Higgins boat and presenting conclusion which are unfounded in later paragraphs by actual Navy testing. I just wonder in this as well as other publications and documents how much faulty assumptions, interpretations and basis really creeps in.

Thanks all,
Dick . . .





Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Oct 29, 2010 - 9:16am
Total Posts: 919 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



As has been stated so succinctly above, the original report contains more than its share of bad information, bad grammer, mis-spelled words and biased opinions. I think Dick's idea of publishing two versions is the best solution.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 29, 2010 - 4:58pm
Total Posts: 1858 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm



Well, well, guys, sorry for the delay but what a great job all of you have done. It is all nicely put together, boy I couldn't type something like this and be consistant. And I can't even image trying to type from that material you had. The format or style or what ever it is called really looks terrific. I agree also, both version would be nice, I see Al.s point about history.
BJO

Posted By: Black Ops | Posted on: Nov 2, 2010 - 10:09am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered