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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Fleet Schools and Relationship to MTBSTC
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1958
Can anyone offer an explanation for me? I have a document awarded to a fellow assigned to MTBSTC which is entitled Bureau of Navigation, Fleet Shools and atests to that person having successfully completed Torpedo School. My question is: was the torpedo school something seperate and apart from MTBSTC, similar to the Packard engine school that the motor macs attended? I always assumed that the torpedo school was a part of MTBSTC and was taught right there at Melville. The document, however, does not reference MTBSTC in any way and is signed by a LtComdr Frank as OIC of Fleet Torpedo School and then Comdr Mare as OIC of Fleet School.
Thanks for any help here.
And cudos to Frank and Dick for the great photos of Base 17.
Allan
Posted By: Allan | Posted on: Oct 10, 2010 - 9:36am
Total Posts: 161 | Joined: Sep 18, 2007 - 7:07pm
Allan: "The Administrative History of PT Boats" which Dick is busy restoring for our perusal makes mention that in the early days of MTBSTC a general lack of both housing and training facilities forced the Navy to send students to outside schools for instruction in such skills as communications, engineering, anti-aircraft and torpedo maintenance. For this reason, it seems very possible that someone could be a graduate of one of those "outside" schools, as some personnel were sent for training straight from the Boston Receiving Station before they even officially reported to Melville.
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 10, 2010 - 4:53pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Hi Alan,
I was just reading the "Admin History of PT Boats" file that Dick made available last week to this message board and it says the following about the Torpedo School at Melville Jerry
Page 132
"The base maintains a large torpedo workshop in which all the torpedoes fired by the boats of Squadron FOUR are overhauled. One section of the shop is devoted to stowage of ready torpedoes, another to classrooms, and the remainder of the shop to overhaul facilities. The work on the torpedoes by men assigned to the permanent staff of the torpedo workshop is combined with instruction of student officers and torpedomen. The shop is equipped with the usual mobile cranes, cherry-pickers, and demonstration models of racks and torpedoes.""
Page 136 under the "Training Problems" section....
"In a Gunnery sub-department, Torpedo Fire Control, problems did arise. This was the problem of instructing officers in the proper methods and procedure of accurate torpedo firing. From August of 1943 to October of 1944, PT’s in the Pacific fired few torpedoes, although the boats were designed primarily for that purpose. Instead they became high speed gun boats. In the European theatre, on the other hand, torpedo firing was common, and the boats continued to carry out their prime function as notably exemplified by the performance of MTB Squadron FIFTEEN in the Mediterranean. As a majority of the boats were in the Pacific, recertification for most of the returning boat officers in torpedo fire control was essential. In addition, all student officers were educated in this part of the Gunnery Department’s program."
Then more on Page 137
"Basic training in Torpedo Fire Control therefore devolved upon the maneuvering board, and this method of plotting and fire control was generally stressed throughout the program. It was probably the only generally satisfactory method of plotting radar data with the equipment that was on the boats."
Then again on Page 146 is possibly the answer to your question.
"What to do with personnel until vacancies opened up at the Training Center became a prime problem. The situation was eased in August of 1943 when a program of pre-Melville training was introduced at the Fargo Receiving Station.(in Boston) Courses were introduced in Communications, Gunnery and Physical Fitness. Engineers among the men waiting assignment were sent to Wentworth Institute in Boston for Training, Torpedomen were detailed to Naval Air Station, Squantum, Mass; and Radioment Radio Technicians Quartermasters and Radarmen were sent to Raytheon Mfr Coompany at Waltham, Mass, producers of radar sets used on the boats and to the Radar Lab of the Navy Yard Annex at Boston"
So it looks like they sent the Torpedomen away to a different Base in Squantum until the Melville Training Center had open spots.
Jerry PT658 Portland OR
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Oct 10, 2010 - 5:10pm
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Allan: I believe all PT torpedomen were given 8 weeks training in torpedo scchool before being assigned to Melville. I went to torpedo school at Keyport. WA. for 8 weeks but I did not train at Melville. I went directly from torpedo school to Ron 19 PT 242. I know the torpedomen that rode the boats in Ron 19 were all trained at torpedo school before being assigned to Melville.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Oct 10, 2010 - 7:03pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Most sailors who went to MTBSTC came there after finishing one of the schools for their specialty: torpedo, gunnery, radio, navigation, radar.
The training at MTBSTC was to teach them how to apply their training aboard a PT Boat.
Some men came to MTBSTC directly from boot camp.
This is a general statement, not applicable to everyone, there are always exceptions.
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Oct 11, 2010 - 4:00pm
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
Thanks guys. What you each write seems to fit the circumstances quite well. I was not comfortable accepting that premise until you each made your input. I'm going with your seemingly mutual premise. Given the date of May, 1942, on the document I shall assume that the MTBSTC was not sufficiently prepared at that time to handle each of the schools and therefore sent many out to other locations for the requisite training.
As always- a big help.
Allan
Posted By: Allan | Posted on: Oct 12, 2010 - 7:52pm
Total Posts: 161 | Joined: Sep 18, 2007 - 7:07pm
Allen, you are correct in that as of May 1942, MTBSTC was in the midst of construction. MTBSTC would send men to various locations for training until their buildings and staff training materials was sufficient to handle everyone.
But MTBSTC was not a substitute for the other schools. The sailors still went to the other schools before attending MTBSTC. The Fleet schools were overall general coursess for all fleet sailors. MTBSTC was a specialty school on applying the general training to PTs (although they still had to cover a lot of the basics).
The question about your training certificate is the circumstances and timing. Was he assigned to MTBSTC and then sent to the Torpedo School in Newport (I assumed it was Newport)? Or to the Torpedo School then to MTBSTC?
When MTBSTC "farmed" out their students to other locations at this time, it was gemerally not for a full course (they should have already had it) but for a couple of weeks additional hands-on training before they did their underway training. The MTBSTC course was only two months long, one month in class, one month underway.
If he went to MTBSTC then to Torp school, it could be that they needed more torpedo men and sent him to the torpedo school and them the PT course. Could be many different scenarios.
Charlie
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 4:53am
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
i went thru boot camp in great lakes.went on leave and was then assigned to cook and baker school in dearborn,mich for 12 weeks.there was no connection with mtb,s except that i was once asked to volunteer for sub or mtb duty.i turned it down.went on to new caledonia and was assigned tghere to mtb,s as they needed a cook.
earl richmond
Posted By: EARL RICHMOND | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 6:30am
Total Posts: 319 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 1:50pm
Just a little bit of info, my father was assigned to the Fargo Building in Boston, dont know how long but Boston had a major fire in November 1942 ( Cocoanut Grove nightclub) nearly 500 died and many more were injured! My father and many others from Fargo were called to assist at the scene to provide manpower. After Fargo, he went to Melville RI for training.
Posted By: Claire | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 6:40am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
In one of my Motor Torpedo Boat Squadrons Training Center Newspapers (The Skeeter) one of the sections says the following:
Back at Great Lakes, Tom Eaman, Tom Jones, and J.P.Fuller were in the same boot company. Eaman went to Quartermaster Scool at the Lakes, Jones to Cook School at Corpus Christi, and Fuller to Machinist School in Boston. After thier specilized training, they are now all together here at Melville to learn more training on the boats and to put those skills to use as MTB men. This paper was from June 1942. By the way Clair that is very interesting about your Dad and the Coconut Grove fire, which was very tragic..............
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 6:57am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
The Fargo Building, officially the Naval Receiving Station, Boston, was the stopping point before MTBSTC. They were sent to the FARGO building to wait until their class started...They had to wait til one class left before they could go to MTBSTC as there wsn't enought room for everyone.
Charlie
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 12:51pm
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
I'm curious as to what live was like at the FARGO BUILDING in BOSTON before being shipped over to the MTBSTC. I have heard tell that many of the guys liked that area...............
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 2:31pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Frank: I spent two months (Jan - Mar 1944) at the Fargo Building. I had just returned from 15 months aboard 242 in the Solomons combat and had had 30 days leave at home. I reported to Mellville and they sent me directly to the Fargo Bldg. It was the best duty I had during my time in the Navy. I had gotten married while home on leave and had my wife come to Boston. Bob Pratt, our Quartermaster on 242, had also gotten married while on leave. He had his wife come down from Portland, ME and we rented rooms in a row house on Commonwealth Ave. Our wives spent their days together roaming the downtown stores in Boston. We had liberty every night and weekends. Pratt and I had to report in at the Fargo Bldg. from 8:00 to 5:00 weekdays. We had no duties except to keep our bunks straightened up. The place was run more like a rehabilation center. There was a bar on the top floor which opened about mid afternoon where you could buy beer for 50 cents for a tall pitcher. It was a very sad day in March when Pratt and I received our orders to go back to the Pacific. The Philippines this time.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 3:52pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
C.J.
Thanks for your very interesting stories about your time spent at Fargo. Like I had mentioned, many others I spoke to loved it there. Sems like you had a great time, with little duty and a stocked Bar..........
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Oct 13, 2010 - 4:26pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am