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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
PT-109 Completed Model
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1847
But, still need to finish the base and the case....
This is the first place I wanted to post pictures of the completed model. I'm not going to share it with other sites until the base and case is completed. It is important to me to share this with my PT Boat family.
This is my interpretation of PT-109 based on years and years and years of asking questions to just about anyone who would listen. There are some people I really want to thank because I've tortured them with questions for years. I will get my list together and post it on the final reveal and send to a few individuals directly.
Anyway, here she is in all her glory built as accurately as I know how to do so. I hope you enjoy her as much as I enjoyed the construction of this wonderful piece of American history.
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo12.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo10.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo9.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo8.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo7.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo6.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo4.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo3.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo2.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo13.jpg[/IMAGE]
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 14, 2010 - 9:10pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
David,
Oh, outstanding. I have been studing these boats for almost forty years, I think you hit the mark with this rendition. Your attention to the details is to be commended.
Bill Smallshaw
Posted By: smallwi | Posted on: Jun 14, 2010 - 9:15pm
Total Posts: 134 | Joined: Jun 21, 2007 - 3:02pm
WELL DONE, David!
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 14, 2010 - 9:24pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Very nice David, congratulations on getting her done!
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Jun 14, 2010 - 10:21pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Beautiful Job. Your long researech has paid off with this outstanding look at such a Historical boat..............
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jun 15, 2010 - 1:09am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
BRAVO ZULU! The A-frame cradle is a great touch!
Al Ross
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jun 15, 2010 - 2:51am
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Amazing work. Detail is unbelievable. It was well worth the wait. What can I say? Great work!!
Ed
Posted By: ducati650 | Posted on: Jun 15, 2010 - 4:40am
Total Posts: 450 | Joined: Feb 19, 2007 - 10:01am
Nice work! Great to see an eye for details!!
Posted By: TheBridge | Posted on: Jun 15, 2010 - 6:49am
Total Posts: 318 | Joined: Nov 22, 2009 - 3:04pm
David;
Outstanding!! I really like the tied off 20mm, it looks like something we used to do, when we did not have a locking pin, we used to use bungi cords on the M-60's and 3 " cargo straps on the 50's, but sometimes we had to use a piece of line.
Your reworked cockpit shieldi really came out nice, and the detail of your torpedo tubes is nice too. I also like your placement of the boat hook, this is something you usually don't see in most models.
Great job!
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jun 15, 2010 - 7:04am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Thanks everyone. I'm glad you like it. I was reflecting on the build today and I realized that I reworked every aspect of this old Revell 1:72 model. She never failed to challenge me until the end. Last night I was tying off the 20mm (the locking pin on the 109's 20mm was broken so they tied it off with rope and I wanted to represent that). So as I was tying off the rope to the depression railing I felt the back of my had brush against something and when I looked to see what happened I realized that one of the barrels of the starboard .50 cal which is Aires resin snapped off. Where did it go! Well I found it and realized that I had to come up with something better than trying to repair it again. I had one spare Aires resin barrel. So I removed the flash hider from the end of the original and glued it to the new barrel. I mixed up some paint, painted it, and glued it in place. That was the last thing I did to the model. Somehow a fitting end.
I'm going to work on the photos because the color didn't come out quite right in the photos. It's actually a variation of Tropical Green and doesn't look so much like 5NG as it does in the picture. So I'll work on that. Maybe natural sunlight will do the trick.
My plan was to add wood beams to the tops of the steel on the A frame. Not a big deal. I would then add a plastic strip on top to represent the portion covered by canvas. My good friend Jerry suggested that I cover that with silkspan to represent the canvas which I decided was a great idea and a must do to finish the beams off right. Damn you Jerry!!! :-)
Thanks to all of you who responded. You were very supportive over this long period while this boat has been under construction. Cheers to all of you.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 15, 2010 - 6:11pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Hi David,
Great model! I was curious if you were aware of the missing depth charge that occurred before JFK showed up to the PT109. I read in Bryant Larsen's memiors- or possibly in Gene Kirkland's PT King website, in "The Unknown History of PT109" where it says the one of the (Not sure which side?) torpedoes was accidentally fired and it tore off the toe rail section as well as the depth charge on that side. They had not cranked out the torpedo. So if you want to show the 37mm gun on the bow, you really should remove the depth charge and toe rail. I am not criticizing your excellent work, I think you have built a great model. Keep up the great work! I will re-read Larsens memiors and let you know what it says. Jerry PT658 Portland, OR
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 9:12am
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Looks great, Dave!
Regarding the supposed "missing" depth charge, of course it would depend on just what moment in the life of the JFK-skippered 109 your model represents.
My two cents worth is that if your model represents the boat on June 30th, 1943 -- the date of the forward-port-torpedo-smacking-into-the-depth-charge-and-knocking-it-through-the-foredeck incident -- or a few days afterwards, perhaps you'd show the port depth charge missing while repairs were being made.
Any other time after that (or before the incident, of course), in my opinion, the port depth charge would be back in place in its rack on the repaired foredeck.
Nice to see the finished boat -- your extensive efforts show up well.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 5:54pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Hi Jerry,
Great observation. I did a lot of detailing on this boat so I wont go into all the details right now but I will explain what I did to this model that is specific to the 109. I'll tell you right up front that some of this is speculation on my part. So here it goes...
Color - The best evidence I've seen from years of research is what I believe Drew pointed out here and in other forums. The photo of the green 80' Elco tied up next to the gray 77' PT-61. This is the most compelling evidence I've seen and had explained to me. The photos don't really show it but the green is very very close to what is seen in that series of pictures. I absolutely tortured John Snyder over this issue (I'm a loyal customer to WEM because of his help). I'll try and improve the photos later.
Depth Charges - While under Kennedy's command and in high seas the port forward torpedo tube launched accidentally driving the depth charge into the lower decks. The question becomes did they just get rid of it after that or did they repair it? I've seen no evidence to indicate either way so I chose to show it as repaired. You may notice (Ed, a.k.a. Ducati 650 picked up on it) that I removed a fair chunk of the toe rail fore and aft of the depth charge to simulate what it might have looked like after repair.
Mast - There is no mast. Of this I'm quite confident. I don't know where it was removed or why but it doesn't exist. Garth is watching over us and will disagree with me to the bitter end but there is no photographic evidence to indicate that this boat had a mast lying down or otherwise.
Lettering - The 109 marking on the day cabin was carefully placed as in the well known photographs.
Wind screen - This was painted over as were the windows on the forward part of the chart house.
20mm Oerlikon - The night that the 109 was sunk it was documented that the locking pin on the 20mm was broken. They tied it up to the depression railing.
37mm howitzer - The board size was specified in Donovan's book and how it was attached. The book also specifies that it was lashed to the deck and it seems logical that it would have been tied off to the cleats since I don't think the toe rail would have supported it. I stole this idea from another modeler. I don't know who he is but I think it was a good call. Update - I just saw Drew's comments about the date. This represents the boat the night she went out and was sunk. That day is when they added the 37mm and just tacked her down until they could make a more permenant mounting later.
Life raft - There's no indication that the 109 had a life raft. I can't see it in any known pictures and it is documented in Donovan's book that they had a 1/2 man dingy. This was not uncommon. PT-105 had a dingy too. But it's not known if it went out with them the night of the sinking so I didn't add on.
Signal light mast - There's no photographic evidence that there was a signal light mast. There is evidence that the one that attaches to the port side of the cockpit is gone. You can see the empty screw holes where the bracket used to be. The screws are gone which indicate that the mounting was gone.
Cables to impulse chambers - The cables to the impulse chambers were added since they are seen on the boat when it was transported to Panama. Al provided some nice detail on that in a recent post.
Everything else was just added based on what I've seen on other boats of this class. I think she's pretty darn accurate at the end of the day based on what we know about this boat. One of my favorite features that you can see is that I put instrument dials on the dash. They are damn small! I'm really anxious to get this boat cased so that it's protected from Mr. Hand. I hate that guy! :-)
If you have any more questions or comments I would love to hear them.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 6:04pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
David: Thanks so much for the very illuminating post on the whys and wherefores of how the boat was depicted at that given point in time. It would seem that you have addressed all reasonable questions as to the 109's look and condition, but we all know that someone out there will come up with an opinion from out in left field. - lol
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 6:38pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm
Who would that be Will? At the end of the day every modeler should make their project their own and I respect that. I appreciate that you guys respect my approach and thank you all for your comments and complements.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 7:24pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Hey David, GREAT JOB! I'm not sure I'll be able to make June's club meeting & I was fearing I wouldn't get to see your kit if you brought her this month. The pics make me feel a little better. I was thinking of building my Revell boat AFTER my italeri boat is finished, but after seeing yours I may just put it up on ebay! Just kidding, if nothing else, you've inspired me to start looking at build possibilities
for the venerable ol' Revell kit.
Really Really Nice Job, thanks for posting.
B-
Posted By: Blake | Posted on: Jun 18, 2010 - 11:43am
Total Posts: 61 | Joined: Apr 18, 2008 - 2:44pm
David,
I'm no modeler but I have to say that your work outstanding. If I squint my eyes the boat starts to look 'real' with all the detail work.
Wow.
Pete
2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat
Posted By: Peter Krogh | Posted on: Jun 18, 2010 - 7:57pm
Total Posts: 30 | Joined: Sep 3, 2009 - 6:12pm
Hi David, One fantastic Model and in 1/72 scale you should rightly feel proud to have finished a Model of the PT 109 to this degree of detail.
I concer with your not including the mast on this Boat if you have R.J.Donovans book you will find a photo of seven Boats at Tulagi four 80' Boats and three 77' boats none it seems have a mast, it would appear that in the early days they were removed to aid the gunners.
The Photo of Kennedy and the PT 109 crew is also in the book and looking at this photo and your photos I wondered about the shape of the numbers you had put on your model?
Just a very small detail but one I thought I might ask about as the rest of your details are mind blowing in this scale.
D.buck
Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Jun 19, 2010 - 6:01am
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am
Thanks Blake, Peter, and David.
Blake, sorry to hear that you might not be able to make the next meeting. If not perhaps I can bring it another time to show you.
David, Why the mast is gone is open to speculation. It could be because of a failed attempt at early radar that the 109 went through before JFK, or the more likely reason as somebody pointed out some time ago was because it was in the way. It was suggested that the boats parked under overhanging trees along the banks and the masts got caught up in the trees. I forget who mentioned that but it made a lot of sense to me. As for the numbers, they were the closest thing I could find to the prototype out there. I don't have the capability of printing my own decals in white (ALPS printer at least required) and the expense of having somebody do it was just too much.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 19, 2010 - 6:31am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Hello David-
Congradulations on your most beautiful PT-109 model. She looks fantastic! Very nice attention to detail as well. WELL DONE!!!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend RON-10 PT-169 " ZEBRA SNAFU " Base Tulagi
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Jun 20, 2010 - 12:08pm
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
Hi David!
I read your explanation about the depth charge and your reasoning makes perfect sense to me. I cant detect the imperfectly repaired toe rail in the photos, but still I agree with your detective work. Again great job! By the way where exactly did you find the info about the inadvertant torpedo shot in high seas? I cant find it again now that I am looking for it? If you know can you please remind me where it is? I want to re-read it. Thanks again and keep up the great work! Jerry PT658 Portland
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Jun 29, 2010 - 9:13pm
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Hi Jerry,
I don't have a hard copy. I have the audiotape and to tell you the truth as I was building the model I would play the tape going back and forth to work listening for details. So I'm not exactly sure where in the book it is.
I saw the book at Barnes & Nobel the other day on the discount table for $8. I may go back and grab it just to have a copy.
The other day at our ship club meeting one of the guys there said that he heard that if JFK was anyone other than an ambassador's son he would have been court martialed for what he did. I set him and the rest of the room straight on that issue. When I mentioned the torpedo launch someone suggested that maybe it was a crew member who did it and the crew covered it up. These are people that sit around listening to Rush Limbaugh all day looking for the negative in this world. Nobody knows why the torpedo launched. Hard to believe a crew member could have done it knowing how these things operated. It happened to a bunch of young men doing their best in difficult circumstances is all I know. I don't know if it's in the book but an Admiral (I think) who was 180 degrees from JFK the president was asked about the 109 incident and he said on that Kennedy did it right.
Sorry I couldn't help and thanks for listening to my rant. :-)
Take care
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 30, 2010 - 5:29am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Jerry and Dave,
The 109's port forward torpedo wasn't "launched" from its tube by anyone when it struck the depth charge and sent it through the foredeck into the crew's quarters bunk. Here's the passage from Robert J. Donovan's book describing the incident, which occurred June 30th, 1943, while the 109 was retrieving a bilge pump from a destroyer to transport to a PT that was taking water:
"Kennedy edged away from the destroyer and was circling back to the damaged boat when the top of a wave smote his port hull with such force that it jolted one of the torpedoes out of its tube. The torpedo banged into a heavy depth charge, a collision that brought together enough explosives to have blown Kennedy and his crew to bits, had not the two weapons been set to fire under different conditions. However, the depth charge toppled off its perch, crashed through the deck into the crew's quarters and landed on the bunk above where Drewitch was trying to sleep."
In photos of the 109 under JFK, it is quite obvious the depth charges were very close forward of the forward torpedo tubes -- just forward enough for the fish to clear them when the tubes were cranked out for firing. The torpedo really didn't have that far to go -- maybe three or four feet -- to bang into the depth charge when it was jolted from it's tube.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jun 30, 2010 - 6:55pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am