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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Anchors
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Does anyone know if PT Boats carried anchors on them and where they would be stowed? I noticed in most of my photographs that the PT Boats had no anchors visible on deck.
Bill Manley
Posted By: Bill Manley | Posted on: Mar 30, 2010 - 2:06pm
Total Posts: 64 | Joined: May 4, 2007 - 6:40am
We carried ours on 242 in the rope locker.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Mar 30, 2010 - 3:43pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Looking at Doyle's book there may be several answers. On page 14 the photo of PT-617 at Battleship Cove shows the anchor held in place by a bracket on the forward most port side of the deck near the chain locker. However on page 61 there is a photo of the anchor secured in a bracket below deck behind the crash bulkhead on the starboard side, adjacent to the head. The later is a black and white interior shot and the author doesn't identify it as PT-617. I have seen a lot of photos of 80' Elcos with the anchor either lying on the deck or more likely lashed to the toe rail near the anchor chain locker.
Dave
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 4:59am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Another thought on the pictures showing the anchor below decks in a bracket - I certainly can't speak for a PT Boat, but during my time in the Navy (60's) many of the smaller boats I was familiar with also carried a second anchor as an emergency spare in the event they had to cut one loose or it was in some other way lost. Certainly another possibility one of our PT Boaters might be able to comment on.
Jerry Beasley
Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 5:24am
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm
We seldom used our anchor. At Lambu Lambu we berthed in the mangrove roots and bushes along the shore. At Treasury we tied up to huge tree limbs that hung out over the water along the shore. At Rendova and Green Island we tied up to bouys. Tulagi had some berths and some bouys. When we first opened the base at Green we used the anchor until the base got the bouys set out. I recall one night at Green when a big wind storm blew in and we started dragging the bouy. We had to crank up and throw out the anchor. We dragged the anchor some distance before it caught and held. We didn't like to use them unless absolutely necessary. A lot of work pulling them in.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 7:48am
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
For ELCO boats fresh from the factory, Dicks drawings show a deck stowage arrangement for PT 372-383, 486-545, 546-563, and 731-760. The drawing shows a location of 10.5" starboard of the boat's center line and just aft of the forward deck hatch.
A 565-624 drawing shows a deck stowage location for PT 565-576 of 20" starboard of the boat's center line and just aft of the forward deck hatch. A note states this position was as delivered and later relocated to the 577-624 position of between the mooring post and foot rail, and angled out at the aft end a little less than the foot rail angle.
Another 565-624 drawing shows only one below deck stowage location on bulkhead 4.
The below deck stowage drawing for the other boats shows an additional location on bulkhead 9, and a note states the bulkhead 4 location was discontinued after PT 372.
The drawings on the DVD:
ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00270.pdf
ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00297.pdf
ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00342.pdf
ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00377.pdf
Here's some specs from [url]http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pt/specs/[/url]:
[blue]PT 565-624
SECTION A-7.
MISCELLANEOUS ARTICLES
2 75-pound Danforth anchors, with 5/8" shackle and 3/4" pin.
2 50 Fathoms 4 1/2" sisal anchor rope complete with thimble and shackle. Rig one for service.
SECTION W-1.
COMPARTMENTS
W-1-a. Forepeak.-The forepeak is accessible through removable watertight hatch in the collision bulkhead, and on port side of center line is fitted with a slatted rack of hardwood for chain and anchor rope with fore and aft partitioning as per plan.
W-1-c. Forward passageway to starboard of crew's lavatory.-To be fitted with a bench above girder and shelves for miscellaneous boat and commissary stores. Also, chocks and lashings for two 75-pound Danforth anchors one below and one on topside as required.[/blue]
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 9:27am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Thanks to everyone who responded and I am always interested in the PT stories that our PT veterans talk about since I am a historian for WWII PT Boats, Tenders and Bases. Since I got back I have been pretty busy updating all my archives. Thanks again.
Bill Manley
Posted By: Bill Manley | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 10:19am
Total Posts: 64 | Joined: May 4, 2007 - 6:40am
Bill,
I thought a picture might help.
Bill
[image]http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/?action=view¤t=fpsg-for-strb.jpg[/image]
Bill Smallshaw
Posted By: smallwi | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 10:54am
Total Posts: 134 | Joined: Jun 21, 2007 - 3:02pm
Just trying to prove I can not follow Dick's directions. One more shoot at posting the photograph:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/fpsg-for-strb.jpg[/image]
Bill [:-good-:]
Bill Smallshaw
Posted By: smallwi | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 10:59am
Total Posts: 134 | Joined: Jun 21, 2007 - 3:02pm
Just a trivia comment. Most of our ron 10 boats didn't use our anchors, but the natives loved them. Soooo, they were mostly traded to them and we all were pleased. Message to Navy, "SEND MORE ANCHORS"
Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 12:49pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Anchors on foredecks of various RON 27 boats, cropped from larger photos in my father's collection. The general location is to port and aft of the 37 mm mount.
PT 36? - Full number not visible, not the 361.
[image]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/prjm3/img251-3-1.jpg[/image]
PT 358 - Nested alongside the Varuna, that may be an anchor - may also be an anchor on the deck of the 359
[image]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/prjm3/img260-3-1.jpg[/image]
PT 361 - In several other posed pictures of crewmen at the 37 mm the large coil of rope is visible but it's not clear if it is attached to the anchor. Wooden cleats on the deck to secure the anchor.
[IMG]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/prjm3/img273-1-1.jpg[/IMG]
Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)
Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 3:47pm
Total Posts: 94 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm
The 361 picture with the link formatted correctly
[image]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/prjm3/img273-1-1.jpg[/image]
Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)
Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 3:50pm
Total Posts: 94 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm
See Bill . . . .
Posting the image wasn't that hard after all
Dick
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 3:54pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Interesting mix of anchors. That on the 359 is a standard Danforth type, but that on the 358 is an old-fashioned kedge anchor.
Al Ross
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 5:16pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Great photos guys.
Bob, what did the natives use the anchors for? A bit big for the typical outrigger...
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 9:47pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Another deck mounted anchor. Sorry but I don't know what boat this is, or what they have on deck in the wrapping:
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/Photo_Scan_PT_Unknown_Liferaft_Hatch_900.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 10:00pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
It dawned on me that maybe the anchor in the image I posted was set there temporarily to make room for the cargo. I don't see any mounting brackets as would be expected.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Mar 31, 2010 - 10:09pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
I don't know Jeff. That last photo looks like it's mounted to some sort of bracket. Typically when they're just laying around they're at an angle. But this one is parallel to the deck and there seems to be a rope run through some eyelets to hold it i place.
To me it looks like it's in the way and a damn trip hazard. I can imagine guys trying to get to battle stations or getting across the deck for some reason only to trip over that anchor. I love the story about trading them to the local population.
Until this thread and recent purchase of Doyle's book I hadn't realized that there were purpose built brackets on deck for these anchors. Certainly a detail I need to pay closer attention to.
Thanks!
David Waples
Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Apr 1, 2010 - 5:43am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm
Al,
Thanks for the feedback on the anchor types. It seemed to me that there was some variety across those pictures but I don't know enough about them. The anchor on the 361 also has a much 'heavier' look to it than the standard Danforth type.
In sports car racing in the 60's the organizing clubs started enforcing a rule that all cars have a functioning horn. A vast array have bicycle bulb horns started showing up, some in places where the driver couldn't reach them. But the rule had been met. Perhaps an anchor requirement was being enforced, regardless of type or functionality.
I also wondered about them being a deck obstruction, but they do seem to be outside the perimeter occupied by the gunners. Maybe not so much for the loaders. In other pictures of the 361 you can see that the life raft is also mounted on the far port edge of the bow outside the gunners periphery.
Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)
Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Apr 1, 2010 - 7:43am
Total Posts: 94 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm
Her are some of the drawings Jeff was speaking about on earlier post. These happen to show both on deck and below deck storage locations for anchors on various ELCO PT's. It appears prior to PT-372 the Anchor were store below deck. Later on, PT-372 and up, store them in either location, with the 75 lb. Danforth probably stored on deck and the 55 lb. stored below deck. Of course these are ELCO's design intension not necessarily what each boat or the boat's skipper decided on.
Typically ELCO shows the 75 lb. stored in the Forepeak, with the 55 lb. stood in the Crew's Head. Later engineering shows the 75 lb. was moved out of the Forepeak to the deck. The 55 lb. on earlier PT's 103-367 stayed in the Head. However I'm sure the location was either determined by the crew or skipper.
Higgins engineering shows anchors, one or two stored on deck on the very forward end of the bow. Later Higgins showed a single large anchor (75# Danforth ???) stored on the starboard side of the bridge wall near the gun turret. However this was sure to be a crew/skipper preference also. Unlike the ELCO Rope Locker Hatch (very small) the Higgins Hatch was much, much larger, and I'm sure the anchor could have been lowered into the Forepeak with the rope/chain.
See images below,
Dick . . .
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/2-342.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/2-377.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/2-297.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/2-270.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/1-frame50.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/1-frame49.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Apr 1, 2010 - 11:09am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
The coil of line on the deck is probably a line used to tie up the boat. At least three were usually used. Bow, stern and spring lines. Our anchor was on deck near the bow on the port side. The anchor hawser was stored below deck. It's circumference was much greater than the tie up lines. We had to use the anchor at Hollandia and at Wakde, I do nor remember any problem with stumbling over equipment on the deck. Of course we were young and sure-footed in those days.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Apr 1, 2010 - 2:36pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I posted this earlier on another thread. This is PT 154 at Treasury Island in October-November 1943. It also shows the trees C.J. Willis mentioned at Treasury.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Nathaniel%20Smith/October1943.png[/image]
natsmith
Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Apr 1, 2010 - 6:26pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am
In the above picture, that looks like an anchor hawser pulled from the small opening on the port side near the bow.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Apr 1, 2010 - 6:37pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Thanks Dick, I didn't pick up on one anchor being a 55 pounder. Good thread, especially with the veterans letting us know how the boats were usually moored. A normal assumption would be that they would "drop anchor" when a dock wasn't available. That's something all the drawings in the world can't tell you. I'm still curious to know what the natives used the anchors for...
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 2, 2010 - 1:46am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
I can't remember (or maybe never knew) what natives used the anchors for, but it had to do with building construction on land, not marine. There were many rules against trading US Govt issue material to the natives, but they were largely ignored.
Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Apr 2, 2010 - 4:49am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
As I mentioned before, we never used an anchor except as a last resort. It was a tough job retrieving them. First you had to crank up the boat and pull forward to break the anchor loose from whatever it was hooked on on the bottom. Then took 2-3 guys on the anchor rope to pull them up to the bull nose. - then wrestle them up over the nose on to the deck. All the while the guy at the wheel was trying to keep the boat from drifting in the wind.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Apr 2, 2010 - 10:01am
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Thanks Bob, I'm sure they put them to good use. Were you able to see how cute the chief's daughter was before the trade went through or was it a sort of blind date? [:-smoke-:]
I bet it was tough CJ, I've done the small ones like are used on a small fishing boat and they're hard enough.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 2, 2010 - 12:42pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am