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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
Fuel tanks
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While I have most of the reference books about PTs including At Close Quarters I have not been able to definitively determine the number and volume of the fuel tanks in the Elco PT-103 class of boats. The total fuel capacity was 3,000 gallons. I have seen descriptions saying there were three tanks, but the plans I have seen depict only two. On the other hand, I recall reading or being told that there were three tanks, one under the floor of the dayroom and one on each side of it. The deck plans for this version of the Elco call out three deck fills.
If there were three tanks, were each of them 1,000 gallon capacity? If there were only two, were they each 1,500 gallons capacity. Or was it some other combination?
If anyone has this information they can post it here or e-mail me directly at cmfaure@earthlink.net . Thanks much.
C. Marin Faure
Sammamish, Washington
Posted By: C Marin Faure | Posted on: Feb 21, 2010 - 2:32pm
Total Posts: 27 | Joined: Dec 20, 2006 - 11:43pm
C Marin,
There were three (3) fuel tanks in the 103-class (and later) 80' Elco boats, holding (I would think?) 1,000 gallons of 100% octane aviation fuel each. I don't think the tanks were self-sealing at the beginning of the war, but were made so at some point in the production run.
I've seen line drawings in the past by by Dick Washichek, this website's moderator, of the 80' Elco's mid-section, clearly showing the three fuel tanks under the dayroom, either on Dick's website or on this Message Board in the past. The drawing perfectly illustrates the shape and positioning of the tanks in the boat.
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 21, 2010 - 3:09pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
The center tank which was located under the day room held about 1,500 gallons. The port and starboard tanks held about 750 gallons each. They were located under the deck on each side of the day room. I hope that my memory is still good.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Feb 21, 2010 - 6:38pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
From the ELCO parts book:
[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/fuel.jpg[/IMaGe]
The parts book only lists them as center and wing tanks, no capacities. Interestingly, there were about six different fuel system configurations in the 80' boats, and they occured within consecutive hull numbers.
Al
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Feb 21, 2010 - 7:12pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Regarding the aluminum tanks, to give a little perspective as to their size, look at the oval shaped plates. The plates could be removed after steaming the tanks and a medium size man could enter to complete the cleaning. The view is from the top of the center tank and the inboard side of the wing tank.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Feb 21, 2010 - 7:37pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Going through various fuel tank related drawings on Dick's DVD, the closest I found to given tank sizes was the maximum gallon markings on the dipstick drawings:
Center:
1265
Wing:
844
Another (later) dipstick drawing showed maximum markings of 1250 & 800.
Very close QM, excellent memory!
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 21, 2010 - 10:56pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
In the Ron 10 boats we used the verbal data that the center tank under the dayroom deck was just under 1500 gallons and the two side tanks were nearly 1000 gallons each. Our all aluminum tanks were replaced with self sealing tanks in Saidor when the new engines were installed. We heard that the task proved to be too complex to do thereafter in the field.
Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 5:10am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Here is illustration I took from my old 2008 ELCO PT Boat Calendar. It shows the dayroom and the fuel tank arrangement. Hope this helps some.
Dick . . . .
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Dayroom-001.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 8:28am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
I have attached close up images of the early 80 foot Elco fuel Levelometers the port or wing tank meter is not as clear to read but give a good indication on fuel capacity.
[image]http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt215/BattleshipCove/Elcopanelpartscatalogoverall.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt215/BattleshipCove/Elcopanelpartscatalogcloseupofcente.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt215/BattleshipCove/Elcopanelpartscatalogcloseupoforigi.jpg[/image]
Donald Shannon
Posted By: Donald Shannon | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 9:41am
Total Posts: 47 | Joined: Apr 24, 2009 - 10:07am
Jerry Gilmartin:
How many tanks on a Higgins? Seems to me there were four.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 1:05pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Hi CJ. Yes there were 4. Two located just forward of the engine room each was 800 gallons, and two aft of the engine room each holding 700 gallons for a total of 3000 gallons. Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 5:51pm
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
That is an interesting drawing of the day room and officers quarters. I believe that most of you are aware that the day room was converted to sleeping quarters with four bunks. With the addition of more and more guns, there were more enlisted men than bunks. The officers quarters also became a bit more crowded when a third officer was added to some of the boats.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 6:50pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Cool stories guys, and thanks for sharing all the images. Nice work Dick, the drawing really shows the arrangement well. I don't think I'd like a berth in the day room surrounded by all that high octane gas.
It looks like the meters "F" marks show around 1260 / 870 official capacity but like Bob says there was headspace for a bit more.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 7:35pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
hi,
take a look at the following:
[url]http://www.pt127.org/crew/douglas_rj/photos/pages/RJD_GasTanks_tif.htm[/url]
i believe they are pt boat gas tanks removed from the boats.
-m
Posted By: pt127douglas | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 8:02pm
Total Posts: 14 | Joined: Jul 7, 2009 - 1:53pm
Below is a drawing that illustrates Jerry description of the fuel tanks and location. The tanks shown are typical for the late war Higgins, specially Portland's PT-658. They are self-sealing, suspended within an aluminum frame structure. This drawing is a modified version of a drawing from the PT-658 book I made for the "Save the PT Boat, Inc." Jerry and our friends the Portland group use it for fund raising.
Dick . . . .
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Higgins-FuelTanks.jpg[/image]
The image below shows the heavy weight glossy 26 page book in full color, which is a very condensed story of PT 658 with before, during and after photos of the restoration project and includes about 12 pages of my drawings including the cut-away of the PT-658. If interested in donating to receive a copy contact Jerry Gilmartin, I'm sure he would be more then happy to accommodate your interest.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/658-001.jpg[/image]
Dick . . .
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Feb 22, 2010 - 10:48pm
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Really nice drawings Dick, wish I could draw like that!.................
Posted By: Black Ops | Posted on: Feb 23, 2010 - 3:27pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
You guys are great (gals to), and make this board so interesting. Keep up the good work. Can you imagine playing cards between those two tank at the same time sitting on top of one (Elco) Wow!
Hadly
Posted By: Hadly | Posted on: Feb 23, 2010 - 5:45pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Thank you all very much for the information. It is exactly what I needed for the writing project I am currently working on.
The cutaway drawings of the 103-type boat are very interesting. Are there any more of them showing other sections of the boat? When I crawled around for several hours inside the Fall River Elco a number of years ago at the start of this project I took a number of photos of the interior but the camera I had with me did not have a wide-angle lens so I didn't get many good shots of the overall appearance of each compartment. Plus of course it's a much different boat in many respects than the 103-series, particularly in the engine compartment. The 3D cutaway drawings would be very helpful if they exist for the whole boat.
C. Marin Faure
Sammamish, Washington
Posted By: C Marin Faure | Posted on: Feb 24, 2010 - 10:26pm
Total Posts: 27 | Joined: Dec 20, 2006 - 11:43pm
In the Ron 10 boats, I can say for sure we had three tanks, one beneath the decking in the dayroom. They were roughly 1000 gallons each, but the actual figures had the center tank as the smallest, a few hundred gallons less (although we used actual capacity stats for the refueling process, I forget the numbers). Altho there were large panels that could be used for repain or steam cleaning, there were baffle plates inside to prevent massive weight shift during maneuvers so one couldn't actually crawl inside. Our tanks were replaced with selfsealing tanks at the time we got the new engines but not all boats were so retrofitted.
Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Feb 25, 2010 - 5:43am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
The Motor Torpedo Boat Engineer's Handbook shows the following:
ELCO center 1300 gal
ELCO stbd 850 gal
ELCO port 850 gal
Higgins fwd 800 gal
Higgins aft 700 gal
Al Ross
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Feb 26, 2010 - 5:56pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Thank you for the official figures Al. I'm embarrassed to say that I just noticed I had info on my site stating a total capacity of 1500 gallons and that the tanks were accessible through a removable chart house roof... doh.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Mar 1, 2010 - 5:22am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am