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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: RON 9 BOATS
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Hello guys:

I need some help in the form of photos or drawings. I have decided to portray two RON 9 boats for another project I want to do. The setting will be two of the boats in early 1943 working in conjuntion with a PBY BLACK CATS. I will be using PT-154 & PT 155. Ted Walther and Alex Johnson have given me some insight as to what they had on their decks during that time, but would love to see photos of those two boats. We are not sure of they had the 20mm in the forward turret at that time, although we do know they had not made the transition to Roll Off Racks. Alex seems to remember a twin .50 caliber set up on the bow, and Ted had sent me some model shots he did with the early style low Radar Dome on PT-155.

I would love drawings of that Radar Dome for Stanley Pienkowski to make, and of course any photos to see what they had on their decks. Alex was pretty sure they were over-all green at that time, but Ted had mentioned Green wirh black splotches. Could use some help here. Also, I was told you could purchase 1/72 scale Sailors with a Rescue Raft for the Gato Class Submarine. I tried White Ensign, but they do not carry them. It seems that three different companies make these 1/72 Sailors, and I would like to know where I can order them for our future project. Any help would be great...........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 8:02am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Hey Frank A.-

I would check SQUADRON.COM for your sailor figures. I think I had seen them in a flyer or in the main yearly catalog.

Frank Ryczek

HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!

YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!

Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 11:11am
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm

Frank
I checked with Squadron and they did have what I was looking for in the 1/72 scale. I ordered what we will be using for the project. Nice talking with you this afternoon. Can't wait to see the shots of our WC-51 to post here for the guys..............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 2:42pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Great project Frank. Let me know if you get any photos of these two boats! They were frequently together. They were patrolling together on the night of 13-14 November 1943 when PT-154 was hit by a shore battery shell. My Dad was taken back to Treasury wounded aboard PT-155.

Here is some of what I have.

PT-154 dated June 1943

PT-154 dated September 1943 (showing roll-off racks)

PT-154 dated September 1943 (showing radar electronics on the lower mast and roll-off racks and a good shadow of the forward gun)

(all pictures are from the Pat Roger's collection and probably taken by Bill Nicholson)

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 5:48pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am

Nat

Thanks very much for posting those nice photographs although I still need to see what the boats had for armament. I see in one of the shots, the forward 20mm mount is still present, and it looks to be a .50 caliber gun mount on the bow. I need to see shots of the first RADAR MOUNT, which I understand was on PT-155 at some point in early 1943. I need a better shot of where those .50 caliber mounts were located as well..............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 6:11pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Does this help?

PT-154 September 1943

PT-154 October/November 1943

(both from the Pat Roger's collection and probably taken by Bill Nicholson)

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 6:29pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am

Thank you Nat, interesting pictures especially the last one with the boarding ramp.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 11:44pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Love the pictures. As I am doing the Diorama to replicate early 1943 boats. When did PT-154 & PT 155 recieve their 20MM in the forward turrets. Also, I need to purchase two 20mm Cannons, and 2 .50 caliber machine guns (as you know 1/72 scale) for Stanley. Of course, if we can't find what we need, he will simply make them. Still looking for that good shot of the early RADAR MAST, as carried by PT-155. I have several, but nothing close up, so Stan can duplicate one for the boat. I appreciate very much all of you who continue to help............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 8:54am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

When I built my model PT 155 most of a decade ago, I talked to a number of original RON 9 crewmen. From thier recollections and a few documents I understand that the boats made the conversion to the Mark 12 mounts before arriviing in the Solomons. A few conversions were done States-side and the remaider when the squadrom unloaded at Noumea, New Caledonia. Hope this helps.

ALEX

Posted By: Alex Johnson | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 10:21am
Total Posts: 70 | Joined: Mar 2, 2007 - 12:07pm

Hi Frank-

Great choice of boats to model! From the research I conducted on RON 9 boats I did about a decade ago I discovered that the boats in the squadron (PTs 153-162) all converted their forward turrets to the Mark 12 20mm mount by the time they were stationed in the Solomons. From the color film footage I have seen from mid-1943, the boats were painted a solid green. PTs 153 and 155 carried the early SCR-517 aircraft radar set. I can sketch several of the boats (PTs 155 and 157) if you'd like and email them to you.

Hope this helps,

ALEX

I was a member of PT154, RON9, from Dec 1942 until June 1944. When the first half of RON9 left the Brooklyn Navy Yard and NYC, they all had 50 cal guns in the forward turret. This was in Dec. 1942. After passing through the Panama Canal, Tobago island and New Noumea, we wound up in Tulagi.
WE did patrols from the Russell Islands which was more of a training exercise for the first month or so and then took part in the invasion of the New Georgia group. I liked to call it Munda but everyone else called it Rendova. Yes, I was there when the PT109 incident occurred. Harold Marney had been transferred to PT109 from RON9 a short time before.
It was while PT154 was in the Russell Islands that we had a SO radar installed on our boat. I don't know the manufacturer. I was such a naive and ignorant city boy that when the boat went out for a trial test of the radar, I didn't even know how to turn it on. The civilian technician who installed it was mortified because he hadn't gone along on the trial test.
Around August or Sept 1943, PT154 returned to Tulagi for retrofitting and that is when the 20MM was installed in the forward turret. AS I recall, we also had a 37mm "Tankbuster" installed in the forward part of the boat. There is a group picture of the PT154 crew floating around on this site that I think shows this 37mm. It was in Oct 1943 that we headed for Treasury Island and Bougainville with our newly installed armament.
I am 87 years old and my memory is still very good.
Pat Rogers, Radioman, PT154, RON9

Posted By: Pat Rogers | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 1:23pm
Total Posts: 72 | Joined: Oct 10, 2006 - 3:21am

Thanks so much for setting us straight on PT 154, Mr. Rogers. Hope you are well!

ALEX

Posted By: Alex Johnson | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 1:49pm
Total Posts: 70 | Joined: Mar 2, 2007 - 12:07pm

Frank;
I believe Alex is correct, about the 20mm on the MK12 scarf ring mounts. If you look at the White Plains photo in At Close Quarters,(however, the SCR-517 boats in this photo are PT 155 and PT 152, ...not PT 153, she has a regular mast, 153 was lost on 4 July 1943, RON 9 had only been out in the Solomons about only a month. The date of the photo is December 1942, New York.), you can see some of the boats have canvass covered 20mm others have canvass covered .50's in both tubs, you can sort of tell just by looking at how the canvass lays on the weapons. I always thought that all the boats received issued 20mm stateside as part of their war load out, and just mounted them later on, after leaving Panama, since they were not there that long. It is mentioned in Al Ross' book on page 220, that in an unidentified photo, which he believed at the time was 155, that the boat carried it's 20mm in the aft turret. I still think the best bet for early photos of PT 155 will be PTHQ, since this was originally Micheal Pessolano and Boats Newberry's boat.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 1:49pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

This is the famous picture of Ron 9 about to leave NYC for Panama in December 1942. I have placed a red circle over PT-155. PT-154 is just in front of her (also on the starboard side of the White Plains). Pat Rogers remembers being on the starboard side in the main cluster of cradled boats. Two boats were placed in front of the forecastle.

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 2:25pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am

Thanks to all of you guys for the help. Looks like the build will consist of PT-154 & 155, along with the BLACK CAT PLANE from VP-54. Hope to have all the materials in before I head to Stan's house on Sunday, so we can lay this out. Should be a fun build..........................

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 10, 2010 - 5:20pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Hey Alex,

Where did you see color film footage from mid-1943 of green Ron 9 boats, and do you know if it's currently available?

I had a quick shot of about 10 seconds or so of a green PT underway on a History Channel doc I taped some years ago...always thought it was the 149, but wasn't sure...I played the footage over & over so often the tape glitches badly at that spot now.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 10, 2010 - 7:45pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Excellent 1/72 20mm on MK 10 mounts are available from John Haynes Fine Ship Models:

https://www.johnrhaynes.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=697

They are pricy but well worth it.

White Ensign Models has some excellent 1/72 .50 cal machine guns. Unfortunately, they are on single mounts. You will have to scratch bile the dual mounts.

SteveS156

Posted By: SteveS156 | Posted on: Feb 11, 2010 - 6:27am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Drew-

The RON 9 footage I have on a VHS tape was shot at Rendova around June 1943. I'll try to make some video stills for you. Stay tuned.

ALEX

Posted By: Alex Johnson | Posted on: Feb 11, 2010 - 7:27am
Total Posts: 70 | Joined: Mar 2, 2007 - 12:07pm

Drew;
The footage is on one of the VHS tapes sold by PTHQ, I have it too and watched it for the first time in years about a month ago. It was shot at Lumbari, and as Alex said in June 1943.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 11, 2010 - 12:27pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Steve,

Thanks, I am going to order the 20mm Cannons from John in a day or two. Appreciate the help...........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 11, 2010 - 1:02pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Alex and Ted,

Thanks for the info, and Alex, that would be really great (video stills from the footage)!

-- Drew

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 11, 2010 - 2:12pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

All this talk about retrofits for PT-154 and PT-155 got me interested in looking at how the boat changed from December 1942 (Brooklyn Navy Yard) and November 1943 (Treasury Islands). I am not (yet) a modeler) but I had fun doing these drawings. 2 December 1942 and 13 November 1943 were the dates my dad was CO of the boat. I am sure the modelers can find errors (which I will gladly correct). I have two intermediate images of Spring 1943 and June 1943 as well as a peek inside. I have actually never seen a photo of PT-154 showing the stern gun.

If I could just figure out how to use a miniature paint sprayer... I might try a model. I plan to practice on a Corsair.

This is a detail of the first image.

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 15, 2010 - 3:51pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am

Wonderful Job Nat. I think you did an awesome job with the drawing. PT-154, one of my subject matters did not carry the SO Radar for my earlier 1943 Diorama, or did she? When they operated together, did PT-155 have the Beehive Radar still, while PT-154 carried the later version. I would assume PT-154 had the standard mast (no Radar) while PT-155 had the experimental Radar.........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 16, 2010 - 1:17am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Hi Nat,

As Frank said, neat drawings.

My two cents on the first drawing (December 2, 1942):

1) The 154 straight out of the factory wouldn't have had a number on the hull at the bow, and the cockpit number would've been above the grab rail, not below,

2) There was most probably a canvas splash shield around the upper (depression rail) part of the port aft turret, and,

3) What is the antenna-looking thing rising up just behind the nose of the port forward torpedo tube? Never saw anything like that on a new early Elco 80-footer.

As to the second drawing, I'll defer to those more expert than I on the later-war configurations.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 16, 2010 - 9:03am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Thanks Drew,

I tried to make the corrections you suggested. Photobucket clobbers the detail of line drawings so I posted it elsewhere that will hold the detail better. How did I do?
[url] http://www.valinet.com/~natsmith/PT/PT-154%20Dec%201942.png [/url]

Here is the update version of the October 1943 boat.
[url] http://www.valinet.com/~natsmith/PT/PT-154 Oct 1943.png [/url]

Here is a peek inside the October 1943 boat.
[url]http://www.valinet.com/~natsmith/PT/PT-154%20Oct%201943%20inside.png[/url]
Nat

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 16, 2010 - 2:21pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am

The new drawings look great, Nate -- excellent additions & corrections...

I forgot to mention the short ventilator on top of the charthouse on the out-of-the-factory-boat drawing in my "two cents" crtique -- I know I've seen that ventilator in photos of the mid/late-war 154, but did she have that originally from the factory, or was that a field modification? If it was a field mod, it needs to come off your first drawing. Incidentally, I've never seen a photo of a ventilator mounted in that position on any other PT except the mid/late-war 154.

Another couple of cents worth of something I just noticed -- you'd probably want to include some of the deck fittings on the foredeck, such as the small, "half-D"-shaped ventilators on the foredeck. Jeff D has recently included close-up drawings of these ventilators on his "PT 103" website.

-- Drew

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 16, 2010 - 5:21pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

I hope this isn't taken as a complete hijack of the thread, but with all the posts
about the 154 and 155 boats I'm baffled about why I haven't been able to dig
up any info on the 156 boat (my Dads boat)????

Headquarters doesn't have much.

I do know that one of the boats shown on the White Plains is the 156 'cause Dad told me so many years ago. But other than that.........?????

Can anyone help or steer me??

Thanks,
Pete

2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat

Posted By: Peter Krogh | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 12:36am
Total Posts: 30 | Joined: Sep 3, 2009 - 6:12pm

Although I do have photographs of the Bee Hive Radar, I am still lacking a good close image or drawing of this early Radar set for PT-155. I would like to provide Stanley something a bit more substantial so he can scratch build this thing. Alex, do you have close up drawings, or maybe Al Ross..........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 1:51am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Frank;
As for photos of the 155. I have never seen one, and I physically went through most of the photos at PTHQ in 1997. When I went there my main interest was 77' elcos, RON 9, 10, 12, 22 and 29. As for photos of the SCR-517A the best I can do is point you towards the photos of PT132 and PT 149(however 149 has had the mast removed in the photo) in Frank Johnsons book. You can also see cables in one of the photos under the unit, however, the photos do not allow me to figure out if these wires are all electronic components, or some are turn buckled tension wires. I also have a photo of PT 166 at dock at Elco(taken from about 50 yards off the starboard side). This is just a guess, but looking at the support bracing, this unit folded down also, folding towards the stern, by removing the last two supports, and probably removing locking pins in the other supports.
talk to you later,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 7:03am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Peter: I have a bunch of pics of the 156 boat and crew. What is your e-mail address?

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 8:54am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

Ted

Thanks vey much. If you get a chance post or E-Mail me the new configuration for PT-154. I will pass it along to Stan.........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 9:26am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I updated my PT-154 drawings thanks to suggestions from Drew and Ted.

The Dec 1942 boat:
[url] http://www.valinet.com/~natsmith/PT/PT-154%20Dec%201942.png [/url]

The October 1943 boat:
[url] http://www.valinet.com/~natsmith/PT/PT-154 Oct 1943.png [/url]

The October 1943 boat (inside):
[url]http://www.valinet.com/~natsmith/PT/PT-154%20Oct%201943%20inside.png[/url]

I found this picture of PT-149 for Frank.

Nat

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 9:30am
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am

Oh my gosh. Will!! This is great news! I thought my email was in here somewhere but then I'm a bit fuzzy with this confuser thingie. I'll try to
figure out how to get my email in the sig or profile or somewhere......
but here it is:

pkrogh at mindspring.com

Thanks!!
Pete

2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat

Posted By: Peter Krogh | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 10:20am
Total Posts: 30 | Joined: Sep 3, 2009 - 6:12pm

Frank, for what it's worth I blew-up the Frank Johnson photo. I also attached an isometric drawing of PT-149 I started back in 1995 with just the "Frank Johnson" photo. If you or Ted or anyone else have some decent shots of the SCR from a couple of angle I would appreciate a copy. With the few published photos I've seen it is very, very hard to decipher all the lines - need more angles.

The drawing is part of a project I started back in '95 and think I'll create a group project (message board) out it. I want to create a library of PT Boat drawings like the one here showing the various boat configurations - I'll post more about it later.

If other SCR photos are available that I can extract data out of please let me know.

Dick . . .

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 11:23am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

Awesome Dick, it is much better than anything I have had to date, and even with the close up there are areas of uncertainty. I had contacted Alyce but she has very little on this type Radar. I believe Alex Johnson has made this radar before, so I have sent a message on to him. Maybe he can put something here on the message board for us. Not sue if Al Ross has anything in his files, but I had asked him once before in an earlier post............Thanks Dick

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 11:37am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

That's great work Dick! If you ever wish to make that drawing available, I'd love to have a copy someday.

Thanks,
Pete

2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat

Posted By: Peter Krogh | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 1:30pm
Total Posts: 30 | Joined: Sep 3, 2009 - 6:12pm

Hi Guys-

I am delighted that the topic of RON 9 boats has generated so much activity and discussion here. About ten years ago I talked with a number of original RON 9 veterans while building my model of PT 155. I depicted the boat as she appeared in September 1943 when she carried the M3 37mm antitank gun on the foredeck, the twin fifties on the deck in front of the charthouse on the starboard side, the Mark 12 20mm mount in forward turret, the SCR 517 radar set, the standard twin fifties in aft turret, four torpedo tubes, and an M4 37mm gun on the old Mark 4 stand on the stern. Ted, thanks for correcting me, it was PT 152, not 153, that also carried the SCR 517 set. Al Ross, thanks for sharing about PT 159 also carrying the early set.

When I scratchbuilt the radar set for my model I used exactly the photographs that Ted and others have pointed to. In the course of my research I was able to find almost nothing by the way of drawings and specific technical data such as measurements of the parabolic. From what I can gather the parabolic was covered by the "beehive," a framework covered with canvas. From a small, grainy photo I was able to determine that the Elco mast on PT 155 was cut down, identical to the photo of PT 149 in Frank Johnson's book.

I wish I had more specific information for Frank and Stan and the rest if you. Again, I love the RON 9 boats, especially how they looked with the Mark 12 mountsin the forward turrets. Hope we can all learn more about the particulars from the folks on this Message Board.

ALEX

Posted By: Alex Johnson | Posted on: Feb 17, 2010 - 7:09pm
Total Posts: 70 | Joined: Mar 2, 2007 - 12:07pm

Thanks Alex:

I look forward in seeing the photographs, which I will bring to Stans. I also got the USS GATO Class figures in the mail today, which we will use as crewmembers for PT-155. One of the Kits contains three very nice figures, showing 2 Sailors helping a Pilot out of the Raft, which will be perfect for our BLACK CAT transfer. By the way, I should be getting Frank R's photo's in the mail on Friday, which contain some good photo's of the JEEP, 40MM BOFORS CANNON, and the WC-51. I will be posting them as soon I scan them, so the guys can see more progress on our PT-374 PROJECT. So many projects............................

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 18, 2010 - 5:10pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Alex

Thanks for the updated photos of the early Radar on your PT-155 model. I will post those pictures for the guys when I get time..............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 20, 2010 - 5:12am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am