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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: The Most Famous Boat
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PT 41 is the most famous boat of all time. Yes, I had to refer to "At Close Quarters" to be sure that I had the correct number. I will just mention two of its good deeds. On March 13, 1942 General MacArthur, his family and members of his staff were safely delivered to Mindanao. On March 19, 1942 President Quezon, his family and others in his party were transported from Negros to Mindanao. For more information please refer to "At Close Quarters" and "They Were Expendable" I still remember the news reports from the early days of WWll. A high powered publicity campaign is responsible for much of the notoriety of PT 109. The millions of dollars spent every day on advertising and public relations is proof they pay off. It is not my intention to question the accomplishments of any of the boats. All were helpful in winning the war. Review the pages of "At Close Quarters" and any other books available for evidence on many other boats that did as much or more than the 109.

Posted By: QM | Posted on: Jan 12, 2010 - 3:30pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Hi there QM.

I'd have to disagree with you on that. I still think that the most famous PT boat, for better or worse and irregardless of any publicity campaigns, remains PT-109. I think all you'd need to do to prove it is ask the average person on the streets if they know of any PT boats. I'm willing to lay odds that very few of them have heard of PT-41 but many will have heard of PT-109 whether because of the book, the movie or the song.

What really matters though is that both of these boats captured the public's attention through the gallant and daring deeds of their crews.

Those of us who model *ANY* PT boat also help to keep alive the memories of the gallant men who crewed them and the daring deeds they accomplished in them.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Jan 13, 2010 - 11:18am
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm

Sorry but I still disagree. The facts are on my side. Perhaps some on this panel could help by acknowledging reality. It was not the 109 story that that provided incentive for men to sign up for PT's. Maybe we need someone with a lot of money to engage a publication relations firm. It only required about one hundred years for Tesla to be recognized in the last year or two for his accomplishments.

Posted By: QM | Posted on: Jan 15, 2010 - 6:22pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

QM,

Even though I really hate to admit this; PT-109 is the most famous PT boat. And, that's just because of WHO commanded her at one time.

If you were to walk down a street and ask random people if they knew of PT-109, you'd get either a blank stare or this; "oh, yeah, JFK's boat."

Now, if you asked them the same question of who was John D. Bulkeley and what did he do while in command of the 41 boat? All you'd get would be blank stares and shrugging of shoulders.

Other than those who know (a) WW2 history and (b) PT history, no one has ever heard of the 41 boat. I'm sorry, but that is a fact.

Garth

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Jan 16, 2010 - 6:27am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

QM is certainly correct in that PT-41 was the most famous boat. Now, this holds true during WWII only. It was Bulkeley's 41 boat and the saga of MacAthurs's excape that did get many men to join the PT BOAT SERVICE. I have clippings in my collection to prove that. However, after the War, and to this day PT-109 does remain the most famous of all of the boats, as far as the public is concerned. To those of us that know PT BOAT HISTORY, there is no doubt that PT-41 would be the most famous of all the PT BOATS during the War.............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 16, 2010 - 6:54am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

It's all going to be based on your perspective...your age mainly. From the WWII generation, PT 41 may be the boat. From those who came later (baby boomers) ...it's either PT 109 or PT 73. For us PT aficionados and other history nuts, we could probably name a half dozen others. For the younger group (last 20 years) most don't even know what a PT boat is or who JFK even was...as Tim pointed out.

Trying to figure out which boat did the most...you'll get arguments about that til the cows come home...then the cows will start arguing.

From a PR perspective, during WWII, PT 41. From the 1960's perspective...PT 109 (first) and PT 73 (the McHale's Navy one, not the real one - second).

Charlie

Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Jan 16, 2010 - 6:57am
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm

Agreed, ... but would you consider McHale's 73 as a real PT? I don't think I would. True, there was a real PT-73, but it was not the one in McHale's Navy.

True Frank, during WW2 from a PR and War Bond Drive perspective - the Navy did splash the 41 boat throughout the printed media and news reels and movies. Thereby making her famous - as she should have been - but, now? No one knows of her significance ... and no one knows anything about her - outside of the PT community.

Even the 109 has lost some of her fame, although Ballard did help to bring some of the fame back.

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Jan 16, 2010 - 9:08am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

I have to agree with QM, the PT Boat Legend began with the exploits of Bulkeley, PT-41 and Squadron 3 in the Philippines during the dark days of WW-II. Many of the men including Kennedy were drawn to and volunteered for the PT service because of these exploits.

The Country became aware of PT-109 and Kennedy's wartime service when JFK entered Politics after the war. This Baby Boomer did not learn about PT-109 and Kennedy's wartime service until the presidential campaign in 1960 at the age of 12. As my parents would not take me to see the movie PT-109, I really had no Idea what a PT even looked like until the Revell version appeared at the local stores after the JFK's passing in late 1963. From that time on it seemed that PT-109 became an legend for the next 35 years.

In 2000, the last year I displayed any of my PTmodels publicly, it was noticed that the 20 something people I met did not know what a PT Boat was, had never heard of PT-109 or who JFK was, and was unaware that he was the 35th President.

Last fall I encountered a 30 something gentleman while operating my RC PT-34. He had recognised my model as a PT Boat but had never heard of PT-109 or Kennedy.

Fortunately we have this message board that brings together the people who wish to learn and share Information about the PT and have a desire to learn from the people who were there.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Jan 16, 2010 - 9:14am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Did not know that JFK was the 35th President? THAT worries the bejesus out of me.

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Jan 16, 2010 - 9:46am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

When I made the comment "PT 109 is the most famous PT boat of all time," I didn't qualify it by saying "with the public during World War II," "with guys who joined the PTs," "with PT boat historians or enthusiasts," "on television," "in the movies," or anything other than to mean it's the PT with the most name (or more properly, number)-recognition -- with the general public.

To this specific point -- PT 41? The PT boat more people (meaning the general public) know of, or about, than any other PT in the U.S. Navy? You've got to be kidding.

Frankly, I don't understand the controversy over this simple statement. It wasn't meant to cause a discussion or debate.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jan 16, 2010 - 1:03pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

I learned of the exploits of the boats in the Philippines from radio and newspapers. I learned more about PT boats from reading "At Close Quarters". Hollywood had no input. I did not see the movie "PT 109" until the 1980's when by chance I saw it on television. I am not familiar with McHale's navy. I was probably busy working at the time. Apparently in another generation or two no one will know the true history of PT's. Much of it is already lost.

To test other memories of WWll can anyone remember Colin Kelly? He was not in PT's.

Posted By: QM | Posted on: Jan 19, 2010 - 8:50am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Sure, Kelly was a B-17 pilot who won the DSC in the Philippines at the start of the war.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jan 19, 2010 - 9:58am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

QM

It just so happens that outside of my incredible passion for PT BOATS, the B-17 FLYING FORTRESS is my second love. Captain Kelly, I think was the first B-17 lost in the war. He won a medal for staying at the controls of the plane, until all the men had bailed out, than his plane blew up..................I think I remember it correctly.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 19, 2010 - 10:00am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I have been thinking about this question for quite some time and could'nt quite put into words how I felt about it until now.

I agree with QM that PT41 is the most famous boat "of all time". How do I come to that conclusion? It has to do with the time period that you reference.
For comparison, let us imagine a couple of similar cases, lets say : What was the most famous ship during the Civil War?" Or "What was the most famous ship from the Ancient Greek Navy, from the Peloponesian War?" If you think about it, the answer depends upon what time period the people you are polling lived. If you ask the ancient Greeks, I am sure you could come up with a valid answer. If you ask the "man on the street" today, (even in Greece) you would most likely get a blank stare as your most common response. So using the "man on the street" is not a valid measuring stick. The most famous ship from the Civil War may be the Monitor and Merrimack, or the CSS Alabama, depending on who you ask, and depending on when the group you are asking lived. If you ask the modern day "man on the street" again, you will get a blank stare. So to apply this same standard of who should be deciding the relative fame, either the modern day "man on the street" or the population that was exposed to the time period that the ship or event belonged to, (ie the Civil War, or WW2 or ancient Greece) In my opinion, it must belong to the population that was alive during the time period the boat became famous.

Lets put it another way, Add up all the people in the world who were amazed and intrigued by the exploits of PT41 and LT Bulkeley in the Phillipines during the 1942 to 1945 time period. Now compare that number to the number of people who only know about PT109 and JFK in the 1961-1964 time period. I think the WW2 exploits of PT41 were much more widely publicized and to a world wide population than PT109. Everyone is muddying up their perceptions with their own personal experiences to come to a valid conclusion. If you compare it to the standard of the people alive during the time of the event being the best judge of fame, then by far the PT41 is the most famous boat of all time.

Just my opinion.

Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Jan 19, 2010 - 3:02pm
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm

my opinion
each boat/ship/plane, etc ,had something happen to it that made it "stand out " from the others.circumstances arose at the time that caused the action to take place.only due to this situation was the emphasis placed on the individual target.
in the case of pt boats pt 41 was assigned to do it,s job.pt109,unfortunately,was placed in an apparently unavoidable collision??.all other pt,s were also assiogned to their individual assignments.each one of them "could have been"assigned to do what the 41 and 109 were assigned to do.but.they,were the assigned boats,they were given the notoriety because they did their jobs and history and the media did the rest.i feel that every ship/plane/boat /man/woman that did their job well and courageosly deserve the title 'the best,well known,etc, because they all did their jobs to the best of their ability with what they had.certainly the 41 and 109 boats "stood out" among the rest but if other boats were assigned to their patrols then those boats would have been the ones that stood out in history.there were other boats that were more battle scarred that did not get attention but men died on them also.i feel that if rather than single out any one boat all should recognized because they all did their jobs equally.i am NOT claiming personal credits as i was only one of many that did their assigned duty.there were many men much braver than i who deserve credits.forgive me for rambling on but i n felt that i had to say something.just an old man,s thoughts earl

earl richmond

Posted By: EARL RICHMOND | Posted on: Jan 19, 2010 - 3:54pm
Total Posts: 319 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 1:50pm

Earl:

Your thoughts are well taken, and believe me you are not rambling on. I understand your thoughts as many men in WWII did their jobs rather in PT BOATS, PLANES, TANKS, INFANTRY, MARINES or whatever. In the case of the PT BOATS, many men were put into harms way, each and every night, and men did die on those boats. For whatever reason, the press did not pick up on those incidents, but their sacrifices were by no means any less than say the loses of Marney and Kirksey from PT-109.

The discussion here is by no means downplaying the role of any man who was out there doing his duty. It is simply a discussion on which boat lay claim to being the one in the public eye the most. As I said in my earlier post, I felt PT-41 during the War was by far the boat that the public was showered with in the papers. In a time where VICTORIES were in short demand, this DAVID vs GOLIETH role of the little PT Boats in the Philippines was considered a big Victory. Many of the claims from the Squadron were blown up, but back home, it was just what the public needed.

As Jerry mentioned in his post, PT-109 during the KENNEDY run for office, was eaten up by the press, and the making of the movie PT-109 hit the screens all over the UNITED STATES. The boats and Kennedy became very popular, and thus at that time, PT-109 would become the most famous. For those of us that spend a good deal of our waking hours dedicated to PT BOATS, I would tend to stand by my claim that PT-41 was by far the most famous during WWII.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 19, 2010 - 6:40pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Earl:
I appreciated your comments. You said it all very well. Every officer and sailor that I knew in PT's if assigned to do the patrols that the 41 and 109 did would all have done them to the best of their ability. It is all a matter of opinion as for as the most famous boat, I would probably say the 242 because I rode it but we got very little publicity from the media. Even though our crew would have gone to Hell and back if needed.

C. J. Willis

Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Jan 19, 2010 - 7:51pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm

Let's see...

PT-109 is the most well known PT Boat from WWII, today.

The rescue of the Ambassador's son and the crew of PT-109 was well known during the war and continues to capture our country's attention to this day.

While what Bulkley did with the 41 boat as well as the others was well known at the time and did a lot to enlist young men into PT service, it was really all about MacArthur. If he was around today, he'd tell you himself.

Yes, JFK was our 35th president Garth.

All the PT boats were important. Everyone one of them.

That's all I have to say. I'm going back to modeling my PT Boats.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 20, 2010 - 6:19am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

David ...

My 'bejesus' comment about JFK meant that I found it hard to comprehend that an educated person would not have known such as a commonly known fact as that ........

Garth

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:55am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Garth,

I've told this story before here on the board, but...

Years ago, one of the high-school kids that worked for me, from one of the city's top high schools, and who had already been accepted to our state university, was startled to learn that the Japanese had attacked the United States at Pearl Harbor to start our involvement in WWII.

She had honestly thought WE attacked the JAPANESE at Pearl Harbor.

No kidding.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Jan 21, 2010 - 3:02pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Heck ... I've got you beat on that Drew..........

I worked with a History major from Brown University who swore up and down (and called stupid and a retard for correcting him) that the German bombed Pearl Harbor.

I am not making that up.

Garth

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Jan 22, 2010 - 6:56am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Sorry Guys, I have them all beat. While doing an Exhibit at the EASTERN STATES several years ago, a ten year old girl had asked me who WON WWII.............

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jan 22, 2010 - 7:08am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Hmmmm, dunno Frak-a-rino, ...

Owing her age? I'd give her the benefit of the doubt ...

But, a History major from Brown and one who went to work for the Travelers because he was unable to get a teaching job and once one did, he took it ...

And, he's going to teach history?

Garth

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Jan 22, 2010 - 11:07am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

I knew you were kidding Garth. :-) This post is all in fun. Besides, you and I both know the most famous boats were the sub chasers. The same basic boat fought in two world wars after all! :-)
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jan 23, 2010 - 6:15am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Would a real sailor call a sub chaser a "boat"? Just a little more kidding

Posted By: QM | Posted on: Jan 23, 2010 - 8:49am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Welp, I'll tell ya ... my dad called it a boat ....... and grandpa did too, soooooooooooooooo .....................

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Jan 23, 2010 - 2:04pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered