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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: Question for vets about hull battle damage repair
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Or anyone else who might have the answer. Frank, I know you have a repair manual that might help.

I was just reviewing my notes about battle damage that PT-109 received when a bomb hit the water between her and another boat. The shrapnel "raked" the side of the 109 with a "large piece" entering the port side of the boat and exiting the starboard side of the boat.

I was wondering how a repair like this would have been handled. Would a patch of some sort be used or would the effected planks be removed and replaced with new, repainted, etc.?

I'm hoping you guys might remember of know how this would have been done and what it would look like after completion.

Thanks!
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 14, 2009 - 12:02pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Replacement planks would usually be installed by carpenters, and sometime later the crew would paint the repaired area.

Posted By: QM | Posted on: Nov 14, 2009 - 12:49pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Dave, Donovan's book ("PT 109 - John F. Kennedy in World War II") states "A patch more than twelve inches square had to be placed above the waterline on the (109's) starboard side" after this incident.

Don't know if this "patch" was a single temporary piece, until the carpenters could lay in repairs to the boat's hull planking, or descriptive of the repair to the planking itself.

The veterans may be able to elaborate on this...

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Nov 14, 2009 - 1:41pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Many of the Bases had carpenters and carpenters shop. These shops had all the tools needed to exact repairs, such as lathes, saws, ect. If a boat was hit in battle and was in danger of sinking, the Skipper would certainly try to beach the boat. If they could stay with the boat and were not in danger of capture, carpenters mates could be brought back to patch the hull enugh to get them back to base. Once at the Base, the boat would simply be put into drydock, and the csarpenters would go about replacing any planking, ribs, or other structures. It has been said that some of those guys were so good they could have a boat back in the water in no time, and believe me, I have some photos going in my new book, "PT BOATS behind the scenes, that show some pretty good destruction on the hulls.

Of course, I am sure some of the forward bases, or crude bases until more supplies were brought in, used what they could just to keep the boats afloat. Temporary patches were just that, temporary until the carpenters could replace the damaged parts. After painting the planks, you might not be able to tell where the damge once was, a true testomony to the work the Base Forces did during the War..........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 14, 2009 - 2:19pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

There's some text and a few images from a repair guide here:

[url]http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/PT-Manual/MTBM-5.html#C3[/url]

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 15, 2009 - 7:03am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Like most other "standard procedures", each incident was handled as best suited the conditions. We had holes plugged or patched with an overlay panel, but as QM says, the crew or base personnel replaced the patch with planks as soon as convenient. If you were at a base or attached to a tender with carpentry personnel, they usually did it right by replacement ot the damaged planks. When the torpedo went thru the bow of the 167, the crew was trained to do the work under the direction of base carpenters. The first time the 167 was damaged and the day room was sliced off, they were never able to repair it and we finished the entire war minus a dayroom. They did what they could but there was no standard answer.

Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Nov 15, 2009 - 11:55am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Bob, do you know what prevented them from patching up the day room? Were there any major problems caused by its missing like water coming in? Did the aft turret stand on its own without the house or did it need to be braced?

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 15, 2009 - 12:41pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

They said parts had been ordered but never got to the boat. It was reordered at least once more but nothing happened. The crew wanted to leave the area open like the bed of a truck but were informed by Elco that cross bracing at the deck level would be necessary. Because of our flat deck however, we got some hauling assignments. We were called the Ugly Duckling because of our unusual profile. We had no problems like water because it was raised 4" or so and was properly sealed. We found no good use for a 3ft high dayroom except for storage. The rear turret was badly damageg but repaired and stood alone with a few metal rods supporting it.

Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Nov 15, 2009 - 1:01pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

That's really interesting, thanks Bob.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Nov 15, 2009 - 3:45pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Thanks for the information. It sounds like from a modeling point of view the best way to represent the repair is with a different color shade. I would imagine that if the boat were painted at one base and repaired at another it could be a dramatic difference.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 16, 2009 - 5:36am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Dave

It would be awesome to have a build showing a damaged hull not yet repaired although I do not think you could do it with a Plastic Hull. This would have to be a wooden planked hull, but I could see it being done with Carpenters Mates Figures, wooden planking, staging or drydock, with the boat pulled out of the water, or pulled up on a Marine Railway system in the Med. Hmmmm another possible project.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 16, 2009 - 6:35am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Hi Frank J.

It would be very possible to build a PT boat undergoing hull repairs even in styrene. Painting can make plastic indistinguishable from wood when done by someone very skilled in painting. Check some of the styrene molded wooden crates on some of the armor dioramas and you'll see that it's almost impossible to tell that the crates aren't wood.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Nov 16, 2009 - 8:41am
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm

Your Right Pete> They look just as good as wood. In any case, I think it would be an awesome project. This is shy I did the FEMU BARGE and the ELCO CRANE PROJECT, because no one ever made them and we just dont always see the other side of PT BOATS...........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 16, 2009 - 9:00am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Hi there again Frank.

I agree that a diorama of a PT boat undergoing repairs in the field would make a great diorama. It's like you said -- people hear about the dash but the don't know much about the mundane.

I find the same thing in my armour and artillery models in 1/35 scale. I've been working on a diorama that consists of three sections that together tell a story about the 25 pounder field gun/howitzer in use. Onre section has a Chevy truck being unloaded and the gunners carrying the 100+ pounds crates of ammo towards the gun which is not visible in this section. Getting the figures to look exhausted and also to appear to be carrying such heavy loads was hard. IT does make an impact on people who see it though. They often say they never realized it was such backbreaking work to feed the guns.

I think in the same way the dioramas that you have had created showing the PT boat in non-combat settings is also very educational and makes people think about the *MEN* who manned those boats as well as thinking about the boats themselves.

I hope things go well with the current diorama(s) under construction.

Cheers from Peter

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Nov 16, 2009 - 11:50am
Total Posts: 494 | Joined: Jun 24, 2008 - 5:59pm

Hi everybody. The PT658 has been undergoing some "Battle Damage Repair" so to speak, in the battle against time. Currently we are in the process of removing the Deck and will be replacing the deck soon. As we remove the deck we had to remove the gunwale (and rub rail) and we discovered a lot more rotten wood. So we are slowly but surely replacing the deck one portion at a time. First we plan on doing the forward 1/3rd and then we will remove the torpedoes and 40mm gun from the midships section and remove the deck and replace it then. Her are a couple of photos that show the progress being made. I think the charthouse being lifted up above the boat looks pretty cool, dont you? Jerry

Here is the bow deck removed along with some rotten wood from below the gunwale
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/Deckreplacement2009part2.jpg[/image]

Here is one of our volunteers Jim Mitchell working on new deck beams and sistering the beams with new mahogany.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT658/Deckreplacement2009.jpg[/image]

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 18, 2009 - 2:05pm
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm