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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf

ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102

ť Topic: .30 CAL. & .50 CAL. GUN MOUNTS
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=143

I HEARD THAT SOME SKIPPERS HAD A TWIN .30 CAL. MOUNT IN THE COCKPIT AND THAT SOME BOATS HAD A SINGLE .50 CAL. MOUNTED BETWEEN THE TORPEDOS. I'M MAKING A MODEL OF ONE OF THESE BOATS. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE?

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Nov 3, 2006 - 7:38am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am

Steve,
I know the Ron 33 boats had 30 cals mounted next to the cockpit. My Dad was on PT 495. I have some better pictures at home. I'll try to remember to email you some. Check this out.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/PT/PT-495.html

Ray

Posted By: Ray Wilbur | Posted on: Nov 3, 2006 - 9:09am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Steve:
PT Boat Crews came up with many varitations of setting up extra weapons. I know that PT 374 had extra 50 calibers set up, and even a 30 caliber. Simple set ups included a pipe connected to a swivel mount, and wooden boxes for the ammo. PT 213 for instance had a 50 mount on a pipe between the fore and aft Torpedoes. I have pictures as well but my scanner is broken so I can't scan you anything at the moment. I guess it depends on which boat you are trying to build. If you want to copy a certain boat then you will need to see what she had for weapons. Don't forget that the boats did change over the years, so you would need get as much photo's as you can obtain. If you are just building a boat and do not care which boat your trying to copy, then you could set her up any way you wish.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 3, 2006 - 11:41am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I'M BUILDING A 1/12 SCALE, 80' ELCO. PT-174, RON 10, CIRCA:
AUGUST, 1945. I'VE GOT THREE LOW QUALITY PHOTOS FORM ABOUT THAT TIME.(ONE IS JUST PRIOR TO DECOMMISSIONING AND THE OTHER TWO ARE ACTIVE SERVICE.) THERE'S NOT MUCH DETAIL.

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Nov 6, 2006 - 5:17am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am

Steve, I have a jpeg of PT174 from Jan 1944 it shows pretty good details with a 40mm on the bow! I am emailing it to your address on your profile.

Cheers,
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Restoration Crew

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 6, 2006 - 6:18am
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm

Hello Steve, I have two photos of PT-174 of the August 1945 featuring a stern mounted Thunderbolt mount. Be glad to send them to you.

Wayne Traxel waylin@voyager.net

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Nov 7, 2006 - 8:29pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Hello Jerry, I'm currently building a 1/24th scale model of PT-174 with the January 1944 bow mounted 40mm. Sure would be interested in that photo.

Wayne Traxel waylin@voyager.net

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Nov 7, 2006 - 8:32pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Ok Wayne, I will send it now. Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 8, 2006 - 2:20am
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm

Thanks Jerry, Great Photo. It's far better than the one I have. Wayne

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Nov 8, 2006 - 1:10pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Steve: What boat number are you interested in? I'll see if I have any pictures.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 9, 2006 - 7:21am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

RAY;
I COULD SURE USE YOUR HELP. ANY PHOTO'S OF THE 174 BOAT WILL BE APPRECIATED. EACH ONE I RECEIVE READS VOLUMES IN DETAIL.
THANKS.

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Nov 13, 2006 - 8:15am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am

Wayne: Have you seen the closeup of the 174's bow 40mm mount in KNIGHTS OF THE SEA? If not, I'll send you a copy.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 15, 2006 - 11:11am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

I have 2 good pictures of my father's 331 which shows both the double and single 50 cal mountings, forward email and I will sent digital picture.

Posted By: PT331 | Posted on: Dec 22, 2006 - 5:26pm
Total Posts: 4 | Joined: Dec 22, 2006 - 4:56pm

I have several pictures of the 331 and 327 from 3/45 to 11/45. These pictures are very clear and show the guns you speak of. My email is rrichardson82.comcast.net if you would like contact me.

Posted By: PT331 | Posted on: Dec 23, 2006 - 8:04am
Total Posts: 4 | Joined: Dec 22, 2006 - 4:56pm

Hello Will,

Sorry to take this long to reply. The 40 mm featured in Knights of the Sea was the first mount installed at Elco. This gun was removed in January of 43 at the factory. A second 40mm mount an Army type was installed in September of 1943 and was relocated on the stern by June of 1944.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Dec 24, 2006 - 11:32pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Sir,

I hate to bother you but I am in a corner researching PT-174 in January 1944. Could you look at your pictures of the bow mounted 40mm on PT-174 and see if what the spray shield mounting was. I can detect something in the film but the film is too small for details. Trying to help a fellow modeler working on the 1/35 kit and your help will ease our questions abut the setup of the bow 40mm. Thank you for all your post.
Thank You Very Much,
Emilio
torrrof6f@aol.com

Posted By: Emilio | Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 - 11:35am
Total Posts: 2 | Joined: Sep 19, 2018 - 5:10am

Here's 2 shots of the interior structure, and 1 only good for causing a headache if you try to discern details from it:

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 - 6:08am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Emilio, I tried to send you a higher resolution version of 1 of the photos but your e-mail address isn't working. I received an error:

[red]Delivery to the following recipients failed permanently: torrrof6f@aol.com
This user doesn't have a aol.com account (torrrof6f@aol.com)[/red]

Do you have another e-mail I can use?

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 - 6:25am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Hi Emillio, I'm in the same spot with my January 1944 PT-174 1/20th scale model.

The pictures currently featured in this post was of the stateside 40mm Bofor's arrangement that was installed at Elco shortly after the boat was built.

In January 1943 this 40MM mount was removed before Ron 10 was shipped overseas.

In September of 1943 a second 40mm mount was installed at Tulagi by the tender USS Argonne.

The second 40mm appears (at least to me) to be a US Army Trailer mounted anti-aircraft Bofors mount minus the trailer and has a much lower profile than the first mount.

Some trailer mounts did have shields with openings to accommodate the sights for gunner and trainer but the one on PT-174 is lower, no cut outs and probably custom made by the Argonne's fitters.

This 40 remained on the bow of 174 until replaced with a 37 mm in June 1944. The 40 was reinstalled on the stern. The 40 remained on the stern until April 1945, when it was replaced by a 4-20mm Thunderbolt mount.

Hope this helps,

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Sep 30, 2018 - 8:42am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Wayne;
You would be correct. If USS Argonne performed the installation of the 40mm at Tulagi, during this time period Argonne also performed the conversions of PT 59, 60, and 61, Sept-Oct 1943. The 3 gunboats had Army 40mm's, which would make 7 Army 40mm's. Hmm, I wonder if there was an 8th, since even numbers makes more sense. I wonder what 80' boat in the area was the first to get a 40mm on the stern?
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 30, 2018 - 9:15am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Hi Ted,
Yup, In addition to the three 77'er gunboat conversions the Argonne also converted three Ron 23 Higgins PT's 283,284 and 285 into gunboats in January & February of 1944. Following 283's loss in March, PT-282 was made into a gunboat.

Ron 16, PT's 221 and 223 also had a 40mm Bofor's mounts fore and aft. Have heard that Argonne was responsible for this conversion as well. But have also heard that this job was done in the states after these two boats returned from Aleutians.

When doing displays for the Wisconsin PT boaters yearly Bull Session in the early 90's one veteran mentioned that a gentleman named Al Piotter (sp) had a series pictures of one of these gunboat conversions. This was some years before my association with Wisconsin PT Boaters.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Sep 30, 2018 - 10:08pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Wayne;
Yes I have seen photos of all. However, I have read that PT 221 forward 40MM was off the centerline, set to port a few feet. PT 223 looks to be on centerline.

PT 221 RON 16 1944.

PT 223 RON 16 1944.

PT 285 RON 23 1944. The forward 40MM is centerline and placed in front of the 2nd forecastle hatch.

Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Oct 1, 2018 - 6:52am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Hi Ted,

PT-223's 40mm is off set to Starboard from the centerline as well. Crew Quarters Hatch is open in on the port side of the gun mount in the photo.

On the Ron 23 Gunboats the 40's were on the centerline and in order to get access to the crew quarters the 40 mount had to be trained full port or starboard to gain access.

The arrangement Starboard side bow mounted 40 on 221 and 223 must have been a challenge for the the Ammunition Passer when firing to port side. But then they did have Ammunition racks fitted on the rear railings of the mount.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Oct 1, 2018 - 8:10am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Wayne;
HA HA!! The gunners mates figured it out. I was thinking more about how 221 and 223 would probably steer to starboard, because of the 4400 lbs weight distribution.(4367 lbs for gun plus some 16 rounds or 4 clips).
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Oct 1, 2018 - 4:47pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

TEST ONLY - New Member Test by Moderator

Posted By: Grady | Posted on: Oct 2, 2018 - 8:14am
Total Posts: 157 | Joined: Oct 2, 2018 - 8:04am