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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: Dr. Ross - Question on Atlantic measures
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1385

Greetings
Can you shed some light on the measures used on Atlantic PT Boats? Looking at your book as well as Victor Chung's book it looks like they were painted Measure 16, overall Thayer Blue with Deck blue decks. Then later it looks like a camo pattern was added? Here are the photos we're looking at. Another good example is PT-504 from Ron 34 from your book. Any thoughts?
Dave
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT0021.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/AtlanticPTBoat.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT0025.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT-505EnglandRon34.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/06-07-2009-09-24-01-250_edited-1.jpg[/IMAGE]

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 7, 2009 - 8:45am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Hi Dave,

(I put same answer on FineScale site)

I don't have any memos or similar documents detailing the paint schemes for the Atlantic boats, but do not think the RON 34 and 35 boats in the Channel were MS16. I suspect they were MS13 (Haze Gray, Deck Blue) because:

a. SHIPS2 describes MS13 as having lowest visibility to surface observers in hazy and foggy weather...which seems to be consistent with conditions in the Channel;

b. In an unpublished 1945 manuscript by David Swasey, an ELCO camoufleur, only the RON 29 boats are mentioned as being painted in Thayer Blue;

c. In another unpublished manuscript by Bob Ferrell, an artist and former PT Boater, the RON 34 and 35 boats are identified as being gray while the RON 29 boats are identified as blue;

d. I have a video tape (I think from the PTBM) that has a few seconds of color footage of RON 34 or 35 boats at Portland that are definitely gray.

The photo of the 503, 504, and 518 boats in mostly dark shades is intriguing. If you look closely, you'll notice a wide variety of shades on them, including light-colored ready service lockers on 518. This may have been an experiment or a temporary tactical scheme (notice the variability in the numbers).

As for the dark panels on the 505 boat, again perhaps an experiment or tactical scheme. I haven't seen any MS drawings showing anything like this. The tones are similar to those seen on the RN 77' ELCOs operating out of Alexandria but I don't recall any similar patterns on RN types in the Channel.

There's soooooo much to learn..............................

Al

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Jun 8, 2009 - 6:43pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Hi Al,
That was great information. Thank you for sharing. The photo of the dark 503, 504, and 518 boats is interesting. If you look at the sides of the hulls it appears that there MAY be a lighter color. If you look between the 503 and 504 boats in the background you can see a boat that looks similar to the 505 boat photo except that the nose is dark in color and the chart house is light in color. So much attention is given to the Pacific boats but the Atlantic boats were interesting in their own way as well.

I'm very tempted to scratch build a 1/35 Thunderbolt gun system. The only thing holding me back is that I think they're damn ugly.

Hopefully more photos will emerge of these Atlantic boats.

Thank you
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 8, 2009 - 8:17pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

As an example of variations from boat to boat, just look at the radar domes.....

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Jun 9, 2009 - 11:18am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

And the different colored masts too. There are at least 3 colors in there that I can pick out.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 9, 2009 - 8:23pm
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

and the different colored depth charges, smoke generators, and even the canvas on the rear turett..........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Jun 9, 2009 - 11:05pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

I just noticed that the point of the stars face different directions on different boats. Wouldn't you love to see the painting instructions they received.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Jun 13, 2009 - 9:53am
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm