The PT Boat Forum
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Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf


Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102


Topic: torpedo director
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1293



In one picture (I don't remember where it came from) I saw something
like a fighter plane gun sight mounted behind the "wind shield" Could it
be the latest torpedo director? I might have posted this before but
can not find it now. Please help!
Victor

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: Apr 19, 2009 - 2:39pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Hello again Victor!
I think I know the photograph you are referring to. It is posted on Bill Maloneys website, [url]http://www.williammaloney.com/Dad/WWII/MiltWWII/MiltWWIIindex.html[/url] and has a section dedicated to his Dad and his dads freind Milt Donadt. Milt was a crewman on the PT 557 when they took that trip up the Hudson river in Oct 1945 for Navy Day exhibits in Detroit. One of our "Save the PT Boat" founding members Jim Brunnette, MoMM1/c was also along on that trip and you can see him sitting in uniform in the center of the photo talking to the man with the hat on.

Anyway, there are two of those "gunsight reflector' devices visible in the foreground of the picture, on the helm of the PT 557 and in my best guess is a reflector type indicator to see the magnetic compass located in the overhead of the 80 foot Elco's Charthouse. The device makes it possible to read the compass either from the helm or the Navigators position. The other one is possibly connected to the Flux Gate Gyrocompass Master Indicator. The torpedo director is not installed in this picture, but you can clearly see the empty mounting bracket for the torpedo director just above the voice tube over to the right of the compass device. I think that Dr Al Ross or Frank Andruss would be able to verify this guess of mine. Jerry

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT557_JimBrunnetteinDetroit2.jpg[/image]

Same subject looking astern
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT557detroitcharthouse.jpg[/image]

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 19, 2009 - 6:24pm
Total Posts: 1475 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Victor,

Page 12 has a couple posts you might want to check. One with photos of an Elco bridge and one a Higgins bridge.



Steve Nugent

Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2009 - 7:12am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am



From "Rocket", a CNO publication dated August 1945:

[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/sight.jpg[/IMaGe]

These being for the MK50 5" rocket launcher.

Al Ross



Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Apr 20, 2009 - 4:29pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Jerry and Al?

Just where do you guys all of these neat photos?



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:11pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



What a great photo, is it an illusion or does the lower left wheel spoke look like a cutaway to show construction?




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 21, 2009 - 1:43pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



No Jeff,

That was one spoke handle that was mounted differently for better grip when spinning the wheel.

Garth



Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Apr 21, 2009 - 3:03pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Hey Garth,
I just am a professional web surfer when it comes to scrounging whatever I can find. I am amazed at Al's picture too! That is so cool! Rocket Launcher sights? How cool is that? Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 21, 2009 - 4:09pm
Total Posts: 1475 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm




What a great photo, is it an illusion or does the lower left wheel spoke look like a cutaway to show construction?


This is a pre-565 boat (throttle on left), likely from the 486-563 series (shape of windscreen), and probably 558 (related photo in "Rocket"). It's hard to tell the condition of the grips from the journal photo. The real ones were Bakelite and bolted to the cast aluminum wheel rim. Time and rough use may have been hard on them and they may be broken in this photo. The grip at 3 o'clock seems to be completely missing, only the bolt remaining.

Here's the photo from the ELCO parts manual:

[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/wheel.jpg[/IMaGe]

Al






Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Apr 21, 2009 - 4:29pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Thank you Al.




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 21, 2009 - 5:09pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Hello Jeff and Al:

Regarding the question from Jeff: What a great photo, is it an illusion or does the lower left wheel spoke look like a cutaway to show construction?



I am pretty sure that the image of the helm is a type that was fitted with clear plastic glass handle grips over the metal spokes instead of the Bakelite.
The PT Inc museum at Battleship Cove Fall River Massachusetts has one of these helms in its collection. The helm is currently on loan to Ron Sinn of Wild Wood, New Jersey for his PT-486 boat project. Ron is restoring to the 486 boat to represent PT 109.

Don Shannon PT Curator at Battleship Cove, Fall River, MA


Donald Shannon

Posted By: Donald Shannon | Posted on: Apr 24, 2009 - 10:10am
Total Posts: 47 | Joined: Apr 24, 2009 - 10:07am




DON . . .

Welcome to the message board, very glade to see you hear and hope to see many post from you.

All the best,
Dick . . . .



Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Apr 24, 2009 - 11:30am
Total Posts: 1447 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm



Great photo of the wheel, Al, thanks.

I've always loved that "suicide knob" on the wheel for rapid spinning...



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Apr 24, 2009 - 5:59pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Good call Don, blowing the image up I can see several inner shafts clearly. Do you know if it was it a new type of plastic they tried? Maybe Lucite?

[image]http://pt103.com/images/ptpics/ptWheel.jpg[/image]




Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 25, 2009 - 12:41pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am




I am pretty sure that the image of the helm is a type that was fitted with clear plastic glass handle grips over the metal spokes instead of the Bakelite.
The PT Inc museum at Battleship Cove Fall River Massachusetts has one of these helms in its collection.
Donald Shannon


Hi Don,

Thanks for the information. I wonder when these clear grips were introduced. The parts book I have is not dated, but lists parts for boats through 563, plus 731-760, Was this a standard replacement or a specialty item made locally for specific boats or RONs? Always so much to learn... :-}.

Al Ross




Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Apr 25, 2009 - 4:10pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Hi Al

Time ago I asked in the forum for how could looks the bridge of the RON 33s PT boats ( 493, 495, 497, etc) at the Surigao strait battle.
Judging your picture I asume this was more or less the look of the bridges but without : Rocket Panel firing
Safety switch
Rheostat for Mk I sight
Mk I sights
flux gate compass in an uper position
No tubular intercom device (the one to the right of the wheel above the rheostat)
Do you think its correct ?
Thank you !
[:-confused2-:]



Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: Apr 26, 2009 - 6:28am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered




Time ago I asked in the forum for how could looks the bridge of the RON 33s PT boats ( 493, 495, 497, etc) at the Surigao strait battle.



Hi Gustavo,

Essentially, yes, that sounds right. Check out Ed's (ducati650) site for many great pix of his PT 495 model. There is at least one cockpit photo among them and it will provide you will plenty of detail.

[url]http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?start=0&selected=1830736[/url]

Al Ross




Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Apr 26, 2009 - 2:37pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm




I am pretty sure that the image of the helm is a type that was fitted with clear plastic glass handle grips over the metal spokes instead of the Bakelite.
Donald Shannon


This clear plastic knob thing has me intrigued a bit. While doing a little research for Gustavo's response, I encountered these two photos:

[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/01InTheLocks-02.jpg[/IMaGe]

[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/brdg-fore-mid.jpg[/IMaGe]

The shot of the cockpit from Frank's collection of the boats in the Hudson clearly shows the clear plastic knobs. The shot of the factory-fresh PT 589 (a later boat than the one with the clear ones) clearly shows the Bakelite knobs.

Looks like I'm in for a bit of sideline research... :-}

Al




Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Apr 26, 2009 - 2:53pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm



Thank you very much Al !
[:-cheers-:]



Posted By: Gustavo Martinez | Posted on: Apr 26, 2009 - 5:05pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Like I've said before, you learn something new about PTs on this site all the time!

I never knew about the clear plastic wheel knobs before now...only the black Bakelite ones.



Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Apr 26, 2009 - 6:09pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am



Another shot of the clear grips:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/HN-SN-98-07202_small.jpg[/image]



Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 27, 2009 - 6:49am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am



Regarding clear plastic helm grips.

Thank you for the greeting Dick.

Hello Jeff: I don't really know too much about the clear handgrips. The helm in our collection was the only one I had seen until Al posted the bridge panel images. I was really glad to see the images, as it is the first clue to obtaining any background history pertaining to the helm in our collection. I can not imagine any benefit to using the clear plastic verses the dark Bakelite as the clear plastic might create some light reflection.

Hi Al: Any info you can come up with regarding the unique helm will be appreciated. Thanks for posting the great photos.

Don Shannon


Donald Shannon

Posted By: Donald Shannon | Posted on: Apr 27, 2009 - 7:35am
Total Posts: 47 | Joined: Apr 24, 2009 - 10:07am



It would seem to me that as Don had mentioned, there really was no advantage to the clear handles. As Elco used many outside sources for key parts, we do know that shortages or delay's in shipping parts did occur. This was one reason Elco used several suppliers for thier parts. What was not manufactured by Elco on site was simply shipped. This was one reason why you would see several different Company names on guages in the engine room or helm. Wesson was one supplier for guages, but remember, these outside sources were shipping parts all over the United States, not just Elco. If one main supplier of parts were running low, Elco simply used another supplier.

This would make sence on the handle gribs or wheels. Maybe they were short of bakelight handles, or possibly another supplier provided the cear grip handles. I don't think, in my opinion that this was done for any other reason. Simply put, Elco used many outside sources for parts, and although Elco and Navy specs called for certain things, they would use what was available. Slight differences in equipment did happen.



Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Apr 27, 2009 - 8:08am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am



Hi Jeff,
In your latest picture showing the clear grips I notice an Asian naval
officer on board. As far as I know no Asian served on board PT
boats. Can you furnish me with any background of this picture?
Thanks.
Victor

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: Apr 27, 2009 - 5:09pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered



Hi Victor,
Jeff D posted in the other link called "DoD Hi Res Images", a whole lot more of these images and this one along with a few others show when the US Navy sold/gave 4 Elco PT boats to the ROK Navy in the early 1950's. One shot shows a 5 inch rocket launch from the PT Boat. So you are right those are not US Navy Officers they are ROK Navy Officers. The Admiral at the helm of the boat in the photo is listed as V.Adm. Won IL Sohn, ROKN, who accepted the vessels from U.S. Naval authorities in Sasebo, Japan 1-24-1952

Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Apr 27, 2009 - 6:05pm
Total Posts: 1475 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm



Hi Jess,
After I put on my glasses I noticed the cap insignia is not of the US Navy.
That explains everything. Great pictures neverthless.
Victor

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: Apr 27, 2009 - 6:08pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered