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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: African-Americans and PT boats
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Hello all...I am an author/historian currently at work on a book about African American naval casualties in WW II. My question for PT boaters is whether any of these men, who were rated only as stewards/steward's mates (serving in the war zone), ever actually served on the boats and made patrols. I know that they served on shore bases, but what about at sea as part of a crew? I've yet to document any stewards who were pt boat casualties. Other naval historians have speculated that perhaps blacks served as replacement crew when needed at the last minute, or perhaps late in the war when pt boats were more heavily armed and had some added crewmen. Any help or information that members can provide on the subject of African Americans and their service with PT boats, whether ats ea or ashore, will be greatly appreciated.

Incidentally, this site does list a steward's mate, Vesper Stuckey, who supposedly served in RON 25 and was KIA. My research has proven this to be incorrect. While Stuckey may have served in RON 25, he was not killed in action, but lived until fairly recently.

Thank you

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: Oct 15, 2006 - 10:34am
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

GLENN;
I REMEMBER MY DAD SAYING THAT THE STEWARDS ABOARD
THE U.S.S. VARUNA, AGP-5, (PT TENDER) WERE VERY PROUD OF THEIR 20 MM. GUN POSITION. THEY KEPT THE CANNON IN IMACULATE CONDITION AND WERE"DAMN GOOD SHOTS".
Steve Tuhy

Steve Tuhy

Posted By: Steve Tuhy | Posted on: Oct 17, 2006 - 6:30am
Total Posts: 114 | Joined: Oct 17, 2006 - 5:41am

Glenn:

In checking my sources, I do not have any knowledge of any African Americans making patrols with the PT Boats. I have based this information on several calls to at least 7 different PT Boat Crewmembers from 7 different Squadrons. However, most have said that many of them did serve on PT Tenders as Stewards, and many helped with the Gasoline Drums, Ammo Loading, and working Ship and Base Guns. As you are aware, African Americans at that time were segragated from the Whites and pretty much stayed with their own. Several Crewmembers even said that they did not remember any African Americans in the forward areas of the South Pacific except for Natives, which helped with many of the daily PT Boat chores.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Oct 19, 2006 - 7:01pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

There are at least two photos of African-American stewards on and around PTs in the PT Boats, Inc. 50-year annual book "Knights Of The Sea."

On page 92, a steward identified as Oneal J. Joshua, half in and half out of the hatch just forward of an 80-foot Elco's charthouse, pours a cup of "Navy mud" (coffee) for a squatting PT officer identified as J.T. Lovvorn.

On page 121, two stewards identified as Shell and Golden are pictured standing side by side.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Oct 22, 2006 - 1:20pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Drew is absolutely right about the picture on pg. 92 of KNOTS. Joshua sure looks like a crewmember in that shot.

Will

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 23, 2006 - 12:59pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

Gentlemen,

Thanks all for your reply and the info regarding pictures. I have copies of many African-American PT boat photos from PT Boats, Inc., but have yet to find any evidence these men served on the boats on the high seas. I hope some evidence that they did comes to light, but I'm afraid Frank is right...due to the segregation that then existed in the Navy, blacks typically served in support services and it is unlikely that they were actually assigned to a PT boat as a regular crew member. Still, I hold out a very small hope that perhaps someone served as a last minute crew replacement. So far, during the course of my research, the smallest ships that African Americans have been found to serve on are PCs and SCs, though even their presence in these crews are few and far between. However, my research into Navy and PT casualties continues and we'll see if something turns up. In the meantime, keep the replies and comments coming...recollections from PT boat vets and their families are most welcome.
Best, Glenn

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: Oct 24, 2006 - 3:19pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

For what it's worth, Joshua is carried on the official roster of those having served with the PTs.....

Will

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 24, 2006 - 4:07pm
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

In William Breuer's "Devil Boats" there is a group photo of the Davis's Raiders. In this photo an African American PT crewmember is shown as part of the raider's group. The raiders were part of Lt. Comdr N. Burt Davis's Squadron 24. Pages 195-197 describe the photo's mission (using PT 338 as transportation) but does not detail individual members, just a short account of the raid on a tiny island off of Leyte.

I have posted this photo as well as the two earlier posted mentions of photos from Knights of the Sea. Please use the below link:

[url]http://www.ptboats.org/posted/photos-01.html[/url]

All the best,
Dick

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Oct 25, 2006 - 12:12am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

Dick...Thanks for the reply and the photos. This is not a photo I've seen before and it certainly appears as if the black man in this photo was a crew-member. Does anyone out there know the specifics of the Davis Raiders. and its participants...Frank?

Best, Glenn

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: Oct 25, 2006 - 6:32pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

Glen: Davis's Raiders were a group of fifteen volunteers from Lt. Cdr. Burt Davis's MTBRon 24 who conducted small-scale raids behind Japanes lines during the retaking of the Philippines.

Will

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 26, 2006 - 10:06am
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm

My Dad was a torpedoeman aboard PT 342 of Davis's Ron 24. He has an enlarged copy of that photo in his home. He says the man in the photo was named Scott (Scotty) and was N. Burt Davis's steward and that he went on those raids, at least one Dad went on.

Posted By: Jeff Sherry | Posted on: Oct 31, 2006 - 2:11pm
Total Posts: 84 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:04pm

Hi Glenn, I read your message board dated Oct. 15, 2006 about
locating African Americans served on board PT boats. Please
advise your latest information.
Victor

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: May 23, 2009 - 5:06pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Mr. Chun,

Contrary to popular thought, African Americans did serve aboard PT boats under combat conditions, during missions, though probably in very limited numbers, and most likely in the last years of the war. This information was hard to find, but information was kindly supplied by one crewmember of PT-331, James Darby (who is white) and subsequently verified by National Archive muster rolls dating from January-June 1944 when PT-331 was operating out of New Guinea. George Washington was carried on the roles as a "cook", though Mr. Darby recalls that he was also a loader on the stern 40mm, and that he was a good kid, very young, and a good shipmate. A photo supplied by Darby of PT-331 crew clearly shows Washington. My feeling is that, where there is one, there were probably others (see the posts on the RON 24 unit with a steward known as "Scotty"). FYI, my previous post several years ago on Vesper Stuckey is incorrect...he is the only AA to be KIA during the war, but was servlng aboard a tender at the time. All documented AA wartime casualties came about while serving on tenders where, as other posts allude to, they often served in battle-station positions as gunners.

All this information and more is contained in my work documenting African American sea casualties (by name and ship) during WW II in the Navy, Coast Guard, and Merchant Marine, due out in about a month (McFarland Publishing...their catalog is on the web). Please advise if you'd like to make personal contact to discuss the issue more in-depth.
Hope this information is of use. Glenn Knoblock

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: May 23, 2009 - 9:42pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

They were deeply involved in their construction as shown at the Higgins plant:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/higgins/Higgins_8b07680u.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/higgins/Higgins_8b07679u.jpg[/image]

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 6:46am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Jeff, you're absolutely correct about African American involvement in construction, and not just at PT boat yards. They were also heavily involved in constructing the larger Navy ships, as well as Liberty and Victory ships used by the men of the Merchant Marine. Don't forget, it was not just men in construction...women were also widely employed, including African Americans.

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 7:38am
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

Yep!:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/WeldingLadies.jpg[/image]

This is a great site for America's wartime images:
[url]http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsachtml/fsowhome.html[/url]

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 8:53am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Hi Glenn, Thanks for the information concerning African American served on PT 331. I also have the same picture (I think) except his name was
Walter Reuhu (MoMM2C). I was told the picture was from Kauhu"s widow in 2001. I wonder which name was the correct one.
Do you have any information on another African American Oneal J. Joshua of Ron 12.
Victor

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 11:45am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Victor...I'm not sure what photo you're referring to, but I'm not sure it is of PT-331, as Walter R.'s name does not appear on the boat's muster rolls with George Washington. So, perhaps this is another boat?

I don't know anything about O'Neal, but he may be the man pictured pouring coffee for an officer aboard PT-110

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 12:30pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

Glenn: I have a roster that has Oneal Joshua assigned to Ron 12. I do not have a boat assignment. Do you have any additional info on him?

Posted By: QM | Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 7:22pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

QM...I have no information on O'Neal. The PT Boat's Inc photo of him serving coffee identifies the boat he is aboard as PT-110. You would need to get archive muster rolls for this boat to find out if he was actually assigned as a crew to that boat, or was assigned to a PT tender whose stewards served squadron boats while in port. My roriginal equest for information was to find out if African Americans served aboard PTs in combat, as we already know that many were assigned to tenders and shore facilities. With help from PT members and archive records, despite some thoughts to the contrary, we now know that stewards did serve as combat crewmembers in some cases. Sorry I can't help any further.

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 7:54pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

Victor and Glenn,

I received photos in 2001 from the late Gerry Keuhn, widow of Walter W. Keuhn MoMM 1/c of PT 331. Also received a compiled Ron 21 history with a list of Squadron 21 Personnel. Washington, George (n) , Ck3, Houston, Texas is listed.

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Bow20mmPT-331.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Bowtwin50PT-331.jpg[/image]

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: May 25, 2009 - 10:20am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Hi Glenn,
The picture of PT 331 I referred to is still in message board dated May 21, 2009, 5:34 from Wayne Traxel. Olease check it out and see what you
think.
Victor

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: May 25, 2009 - 10:34am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Re the picture of Lt. Luvvorn and Oneal Joshua , I believe the identification of the site being on PT 110 may be incorrect. PT 110 was destroyed in a collision on Jan. 26, 1944. Lt. Luvvorn appears on a Ron 12 roster "1943 to 1944". Someone has previously posted that he was later transferred to Ron 11. PT 110 was never in either of those squadrons. Joshua appears on a Ron 12 roster. The boat cannot be identified in the picture. My guess is that the picture is a Ron 12 boat.

Posted By: QM | Posted on: May 25, 2009 - 7:31pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Hi Wayne,
Thanks for your latest posting about African American & PT boats.
Please advise what's the (n) after the name George mean? Also
what's Ck 3?
After looking through all the information regarding this subject, there
seem to be a conflict as to who was on PT 331 Joshua or George Washington? What's youe opinion on this?
Victor

Victor K Chun

Posted By: victorkchun | Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 4:26pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Victor...We are talking about 2 different men here. George Washington served on PT-331...that is him shown in the pictures on Wayne's post. The "n" after his name means no middle name (either he had none, or one was not given at time of enlistment). CK-3 refers to his rate, which stands for Officer's Cook 3rd class, a petty officer rating in the Steward's Branch of the Navy, to which African Americans were restricted, as well as many Guamanians and Filipinos (not all, though). This was the segregated branch of the Navy that served officers by preparing and serving meals, keeping quarters, etc. However, in combat stewards did have GQ ("general quarters" or battle station positions as gunners, loaders, ammo passers, corpsmen, stretcher bearers. etc. Washington's GQ station on PT-331 was a part of the stern 40mm gun crew as a loader.Prior to reaching petty officer status, Blacks were rated as steward's mates (Stm) with the same duties. My records show that Washington was an STM-2 or 1st class in early 1944, but he must have done his duty well, as he seems to have ended his serve as CK-3. By the way, a CK should not be confused with the general rating of ship's cook (SK), held only by white sailors...this man cooked the grub for enlisted men aboard larger ships. Of course, given their small crew size, any steward (CK or Stm) carried aboard a PT would have prepared meals for all in the crew, not just officers. I am told first hand this was the case on PT-331.

In regards to O'Neal, I know little about him...he has nothing to do with PT-331. I defer to QM's post as to his boat and the likelihood he was not aboard PT-110, but would point out that this websites own archives identify the boat in question as PT-110 on which O'Neal is shown pouring a cup of coffee, with no date given. This photo, by the way, has the look to me of a staged publicity shot, but for what purpose I'm uncertain. In a real situation I doubt either man would have been in the uniforms as shown, but more casually dressed.

Hope this clarifies things

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 8:36pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

I NEVER knew this.

WOW. I learned something new ..................

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: May 27, 2009 - 10:58am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

One mistake in my previous post...the rating designation for ship's cook was SC, not SK (this a designation for storekeeper).

Posted By: Glenn Knoblock | Posted on: May 27, 2009 - 4:21pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Oct 14, 2006 - 8:40pm

Oh Man, How could I have forgotten about middle initial (n) from Naval Training Center, San Diego. While filling out info for dog tags. The man running this phase said "Fill out this form starting with your last name first followed by your first name and ending with your middle initial." " If you do not have a middle initial, the Navy will provide one for you." Use the letter "n" for you're middle initial." " Everyone in the Navy has a middle initial." NTC San Diego 1968 .

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: May 28, 2009 - 4:53am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Hi All,

I have this photo from the estate of LTJG William Diver (Officer without the lid) showing what I believe is the crew of PT 195 around the time of Leyte. I do not know who the Gent in front of the LT is, but digging through the Ron 12 muster reports shows several personnel with steward ratings.

Also one of Frank's threads mentioned a Desso Bruce Bryant Jr St1C. According to the muster reports, he was with the Observation Squadrons (VO-2 and VO-4) before the war (on Battleships) but then was assigned with Ron 1, Ron 3 and Ron 22 (among many other assignments during and after the war).

Andy

Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Oct 11, 2014 - 5:00pm
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm

Thanks Andy, regardless of his duties he certainly looks like an accepted member of the crew in that photo.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 8:20am
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Concur Jeff,

There was one particular Ron 12 member that caught my eye. St1C Dubois Porchia (n) from Littlerock (I believe born 1922) who was a plank owner and came in as a E-3 steward and left the squadron on Oct 21, 1944 after making St1C (E-6). He was assigned directly to the CTG 70.1 staff at Leyte. That's some mighty fast promotion! I would guess it wasn't because of his cooking. He was then later assigned to Ron 41 and was with that squadron at the end of the war.

While I have no direct confirmation he was African American, it is a common first and last name in that part of the world. I believe he later moved to Michigan and is buried up there in the vet cemetery. I would be interested to know if his name is listed in the front cover of any of the Ron 12 boat log books.

Three other Stewards in the squadron were John Collins StM2C; Benjamin William Curry, St3C: and Oneal (n) Joshua, St3C.

I'm hoping that one of these four is the Gent in the photo. All four potentially meet the time frame of the photo.

Andy

Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 8:49am
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm

I found this census report with a google search:
http://www.archives.com/1940-census/dubois-porchia-ar-46069843

Believe it is the same person.

Rick Schaefer
Splinter PT 63

TM2c John E Mirus
Solomon Islands
Dec 43 - Jan 45

Posted By: rickas | Posted on: Oct 13, 2014 - 6:36pm
Total Posts: 82 | Joined: Dec 26, 2013 - 5:16pm

Hey All,

Was reading through the stacks of research from my December trek to Germantown and have been able to finally confirmed the ID of the Gent in front of LTJG Diver, It is the previously mentioned Oneal JOSHUA. "Josh" as he was known, was the cook on PT 195 under Ray Turnbull, Tom Thorne and Bill Diver and transferred off the boat around Jul 44? Anyway I have a feeling that the caption for the photo on page 92 Knights of the Sea might be slightly off since the officer looks a great deal like the officer next to Bill Diver in the below PT 195 photo. My best guess hunch is that this is a PT 195 crew photo taken in Jun 44 when Thorne relieved Turnbull as CO and Diver checked aboard as the new XO. - Andy

Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Mar 5, 2016 - 1:07pm
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm

Here's a Ron 24 photo I found during my latest Germantown visit. Photo caption is of a Ron 24 raiding party in New Guinea.

- Andy

Posted By: Andy Small | Posted on: Mar 10, 2016 - 7:27pm
Total Posts: 262 | Joined: Nov 20, 2013 - 9:04pm

Andy;
These RON 24 guys were known as Davis' Raiders. They wiped out a small group of enemy(20 dead, 1 was captured) on a small Island near Leyte in December 1944.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 11, 2016 - 4:37am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am