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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
questtion on pt558
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Hi all,
have been reading through pt boat squadrons by Angus Konstam, and noticed pt558 from ron29, being interested in building the Italeri PT Boat, it appears to have the same configuration. Even has the rocket pods on the foredeck,next to the bridge.
my principle question is - what colour would the boat have been painted. I assume a GREY , but which type ?
any help would be greatly appreciated
Graham Cutler
Posted By: gray40 | Posted on: Feb 17, 2009 - 3:07pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Mr. Cutler,
Hello. That depends on when you'd like to have your model depict the 558 ............
Do you want her to be an unit of Squadron 29? In that case, she'd be in overall Thayer Blue with Deck Blue decks and all horizontal surfaces with an yellow triangle painted on her foredeck near the fore-peak (I HOPE I used that term correctly) as an identifying marking.
If you are going to depict her in 1945 when she was with the training squadron and used on the war-bond tour just after the war, she was most probably in a gray although I don't feel confident enough in telling you what gray.
Garth
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 17, 2009 - 3:22pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
hi Garth,
many thanks for the reply, the wartime configuration in Ron 29, is what I am aiming at.
the Blues would appear to be the theme.
some of the other images of Ron 29 boats, seem to outline the foredeck peak quite well.
I think some more digging through images may be needed.
truly appreciate the response.
Graham
Posted By: gray40 | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 12:08am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Garth and Graham;
Look at the you tube video Dick posted a few weeks ago on the war bond tour of 1945(in the video are 486,487,505,545,557-559). PT 557-559 are a very dark green.
From still photos they look like they were painted in either Thayer Blue or light gray when they first came back from the Med to RON 4 though. Garth was that marking on the forepeak Yellow? I thought it was white. was it yellow for RON 22 also? Oh well, I guess I have to change that on my Bastia Diorama. As I said, I will take some photos.
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 5:07am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Yes sir LT., that triangle was Yellow ...
The boats were Green in '45? Interesting.
Was the 558 one of the boats with the Thunderbolt? Those were 556-559, correct?
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 6:27am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Garth;
Yes, 556-559 had the Thunderbolt. Have you viewed the film Dick posted yet? It is under "Hudson video" a few posts subjects down. Watch it, it is good, filming. No sound though. The Thuderbolts remained with these boats until they were placed out of service and RON 4 was decommed.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 7:39am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
No. But, I will ..........
OK. So, if the Thunderbolts remained with the boats until Ron 4 was decommissioned, ... then where did the one that was tested on the 174 late in the war, when she wore a 31/20L scheme come from?
I've heard that the 556 or was it the 559 - was turned over to the USSR, did they use that Thunderbolt?
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 8:15am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Garth;
Sorry 556 was turned over. I don't know if the Thunderbolt went with it, but I doubt it, it was probably replaced with a 40mm. I don't know where 174's thunderbolt came from, maybe Wayne does, since that is his photo, but a thunderbolt was mounted on 138(with .50 cal and 20mm), 160, I also remember a mention that another boat in New Guinea had a Thunderbolt, mounted for testing purposes, maybe one of the boats in RON12?
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 9:51am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Alex Johnson could easily answer that one; he's the Ron 12 Guru in these here parts ....................
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 10:25am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Garth & Ted:
I spoke with Mr. Jerry Foley this afternnon, who was a crew member on PT 556. Although his memory is not what it once was, he remembers the Crew leaving the boat in 1945. Now here is where it gets a bit sketchy. He thinks the boat was somewhere in North Africa at the time, and claims that the Thunderbolt sysytem was not removed from the boat when turned over to the Russians. Also, I remeber that the first Thunderbolt system was mounted on PT 138 with Ron 7, sometime in late 1942.
This mount was actually washed away in heavy Seas before it could really be tested. Now, a few boats had the system in 1945, which I think was Ron 10 & Ron 21 while in the Philippines. Not sure which boats, but maybe I can check into it. I am not sure about any of the boats in Ron 12 having the Thunderbolt on them.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 11:21am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Frank -
North Africa in '45?
That doesn't jibe with all of the documentation that I've seen that states that Ron 29 was disbanded in '44?
Would we give the Soviets THAT type of technology? I realize we were allies and some of the Higgins, Elcos and Vospers and some of the SCs we gave them had radar - but I was under the impression we held some things back ... I dunno. But, I do know that we were 'upset' that they kept the few B-29s that landed in Soviet territory because of their technology ...........
My site has a photo of the 174 in '45 with a Thunderbolt mounted so, a Ron 10 boat had one for sure ................
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 11:37am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Some more information here. Seems that when the boats were turned over to the Russians, the US Navy stripped the boats of what is considered practical parts that the Russians did not use. Their priciple weapons were the 20MM, so it would make since that the Thunderbolts would stay in place as they had the ammo for them. Roll off racks were removed as well as other parts not compatible with their own systems. More to follow as I find out...........
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 11:41am
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Or, ..............
film at 11.........................
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 12:21pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Here is a side note concerning the Thunderbolt and how many there were, go to this site: [url]http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57u.htm[/url]
and you can read that 2 Thunderbolts each were installed on Massachusetts (BB-59), Maryland (BB-46),(so this narrows down that color photos in the photobucket account) and by June 1944 were authorized for installation on Arkansas (BB-33), Colorado (BB-45), West Virginia (BB-48) and Washington (BB-56) and the training ship Wyoming (AG-17). So I guess this weapon was not as limited production as I thought. After reading one of the posts maybe it was RON 21 and not RON 12. At any rate, this thing could put out 1800 rounds per minute. But the question is if they made this many, why wasn't a RON deployed with 6 boats with the Thunderbolt and 6 boats with 40mm's? That would have been wild!!
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 12:52pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
""Yes sir LT., that triangle was Yellow ... ""
Source?
Al Ross
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Feb 18, 2009 - 6:57pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Hi all,
this is the reason I like this site.
what a goldmine of information. [:-confused2-:]
many thanks to you all.
so for my own clarification, 558 would have had a thunderbolt mounted
the colour I think I will digest some more reference, being a naval modelling novice me thinks a little more reading.
within Ron29, would there have been other Elco 80ft boats with standard weapons fit. Persistent as I am, I err on the side of the wiser for this.
again, many thanks for all the assistance
Graham Cutler
Posted By: gray40 | Posted on: Feb 19, 2009 - 12:19am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Al,
Source?
Research and information from the Squadron Historian and a man who was actually on the boat and ... from asking people who can ID colors in B/W photos.
OK?
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:01am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
In my research on 174 I never found the source providing Thunderbolt mount that was eventually installed.The material I provided in Garths website, was obtained from former crewmembers via snail mail while reseaching this boat for a model I had intended to build. On a tip from these veterans and Alex Johnson who had volunteered at PTB's Inc.Headquarters I was able purchase the picture that is also featured in Garths website. Sometime later I received a National Archives partial log with the dates of when the Thunderbolt mount was installed on 174.
4/20/1945: While at Samar, Philippines, 40mm removed from stern.
4/22/1945: Work began by base on pad to receive quad 20mm mount.
4/29/1945: At 1150, quad 20mm mount “Thunderbolt” mounted on stern.
Two Ron 21 PT's 327 and 331 were also fitted with the Thunderbolt Mount.
Wayne Traxel
Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 19, 2009 - 9:05am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am
Thank you Waynester.
Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 19, 2009 - 10:31am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
<>
Thank you.
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Feb 19, 2009 - 12:26pm
Total Posts: 993 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm