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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
ATTN Earl, Russ, C.J. Bob, QM Dd disper at Tulagi orSearlesvillei
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Earl, Russ, C.J. Bob, QM;
Were the drydocks close together or seperated by some distance at Tulagi. How far? I have David Levy's photos of Tulagi, did they remain in the same place? Just NW of the pier or were they moved? What about Searlesville, Russel Is. I have aerial photos of Bau Island, Rendova that show the drydocks in the lagoon, all three together.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 28, 2008 - 2:09pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
I was only in New Guinea and New Britain. I didn't see any drydocks there, only cranes on the tenders.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Dec 28, 2008 - 2:29pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
hi as to calvertville, tulagi i am not sure as i was on sesapi ,across from there,and i do not think we had a drydock there. at rendova i remember the drydocks being fairly close together.we used to dive off the top of one of them.i think they were fairlly close to the beach.as to the others i do not know.my memory of these is not very clear though.so i could be wrong. earl
earl richmond
Posted By: earl | Posted on: Dec 28, 2008 - 4:31pm
Total Posts: 197 | Joined: Oct 18, 2006 - 12:13pm
Ted: We spent a week at Tulagi, the first week of Jan. 1944 getting Mk 13 torpedos and new engines but we never went in dry dock there so I don't recall just where the docks were located and how many at that time. I never spent any time at the Russels - went in there once to deliver a message on the way to Rendova. We were in dry dock at both Rendova and Green. There were three docks tied together at those places. Sorry I can,t be more help.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Dec 29, 2008 - 6:28am
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Ted: Just jumping in here, but I am curious to know about your aerial shot of Bau Island in Rendova Harbor...where did you get it, and are more available ?
I saw a BW photo that showed the dry docks in Rendoa Harbor, all three together with a PT Boat in one.
I returned from the Rendova/Munda area this October and also saw many concrete foundations fr Quonset (?) huts/workshops etc. on Bau.
I sent them to Frank, also there is a upside down higgins landing craft just in Rendova Harbor.
Regards,
and love to here more on/about the aerial shot
Shane
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Dec 29, 2008 - 8:58am
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Shane;
I will scan and try to post these tonight or tomorrow.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 29, 2008 - 9:18am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Tulagi and Saidor New Guinea were the only bases I saw that even had more than one dry dock. They started out tied together in order to share tools and supplies but because of air raids, we received orders to separate them. We did that but I don't recall how they were dispersed.
Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Dec 29, 2008 - 9:37am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Thanks Ted I look forward to it so I can use it for reference for my next trip.
Another interesting bit of info. I came across apparently, Bau Island also had a very small landing strip on it ??? That was according to some locals.
I'd imagine it was built later in the post invasion era, and due to the size of the Island, probably could take something on the likes of piper cubs (?)
Catalinas did landd in the Harbor I was told by an old man, who was in that area during the war.
Regards
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Dec 29, 2008 - 1:58pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Shane
the photos are posted in the photobucket account, take a look.
take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:07pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Thanks Ted !,
Is there a date on this picture ? I think it may be still early in base developement, as some foundations to buildings (not shown standing), are in that cleared area near the water front.
I will have to study the photo more, as it looks as if there is some elevation just inland of the boats, and there is none to really speak of today.
Where that road comes down, there was a dock shown on my WW-2 USN chart, I snorkeled over there and one can only see some metel bits for the foundation (?).
The big tree on Google Earth (current date), and the house right behind it are where the flag pole base is (sans pole), and several other quonset hut sized foundations.
Over where the dry docks are, there are some other concrete foundations ashore, if one were to look on the far side of the dry docks, there is now today a sunken US Barge ...I think one can see it with Google.
If you have any more by all means post them, as I can focus my search this year around those areas...
Regards,
Shane
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 7, 2009 - 10:35pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Hummmm,
One a closer look I think I can make out the Quonset huts, pretty much right where I would imagine- interesting.
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 7, 2009 - 10:39pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
This is a picture of Bau Island from Earl Richmond's collection. It is based on a newspaper clipping he had that he let me scan. This goes along with Ted's posted picture of the same drydocks. The caption to the newspaper images reads:
Bau Island, Rendova, PT Base 1943. Ron 5! When that Ron is mentioned many of you start remembering your boat and places like Rendova, Vella Lavella, Treasury, Tulagi-Russel Is, and Bougainville. If you were Ron 5 how about helping out at PT Boat headquarters? Just drop us a line containing the number of your boat, a list of your old shipmates’ name, ranks or rates, addresses, college attended and any other information you may have, so we can complete the boat crew list for history.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Nathaniel%20Smith/BauIslanddrydocks.png[/image]
natsmith
Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Jan 8, 2009 - 2:31pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am
Here is some oral history from Rutgers:
http://oralhistory.rutgers.edu/Interviews/indexes/branchindex_navy_pto.html
go down the link to Samuel Frankel
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 8, 2009 - 7:28pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Shane;
the aerial picture showing both Lumbari and Bau is the only one that has a date on the back and it reads Aug. 1943, but while I have some doubt that is was taken in then, simply because one has to ask, where are all of the boats? Elements of RON 10, RON 5, and RON 6 should be all over this photo as only RON 9 had moved to Lever Harbor, everybody else was at Lumbari. Motor Torpedo Base 11 was opened in January 1944 as a main repair and overhaul base. Commodore Moran also moved his whole staff up from Tulagi. Judging from the presence of three drydocks, I'd say it's a good bet this photo was taken after Jan 1944.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 9, 2009 - 6:10am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted,
I would have to agree late 1943/early 1944, would seem more likely. The shot though I do not think would show alot of boats, as it really does not cover that much water area and is aimed (if one followed it across) towards Munda.
That little Island in the background is as shown on Google Earth is part of Pau Island. The Southern bit of that inlet I snorkeled around alot looking for moorings, we were told of one.
That mooring block still had the chain connected laying out on the bottom..it was in very good condition and on its side. I have a hunch that it may have been partialy buried in the sand before the tsunami.
I found no others- the water was very clear and we could see the bottom all across. The mooring we found I was told by locals (whom it was passed down by elders), was for Barges and not PT's- so I was out of luck.
In the small inlet Nathanial shows on Bau Is., I think the white area is fill, as when one compares the curves of 1943/44 to the straight lines on Google Earth- I am inclined to think that....plus it would explain the erosion of the bank along that bits of shoreline I saw this October.
There is another bit of chain we followed heading out to deeper water. I did not have scuba at the time, so we never got to the end, as it was too deep.
I think some of the stuff we found was exposed from the buried seabed due to the 2007 Tsunami, including the wood bits of the PT 164, over near Lambari Island.
The quality of the wood was very good and partialy buried, most bits having very little marine growth, and every hole we saw had a screw in it- some of the very exposed (screws) were in poor condition - some in very good condition.
There was very little debris, as I told Frank it was blown to bits by ex-pats (so the story goes), looking for metal off it post WW-2- some wiring we saw was stripped also.
The locals said there was more in the 1990's, and reckon the Tsunami exposed some bits- and destroyed/moved others- Those US jeeps and such I took pictures of in 1981 are no longer there, or just bits- that picture is on this site a few pages back.
There are the remains of the road on Bau- now mainly a trail. Further down the Island we saw the remains of the garbage dump- old rusty bits and several bottles all around. The ground was very swampy there and I was not going to die looking for garbage.
All of Rendova Harbor in my opinion should be made into a historic site, before it is deveolped. It has "barely" changed since I was there 27 years ago.
The is almost "no trash" from very few families there, and probably the most trash is left over from the US troops such as barrels, bottles etc. What is under the sand and buried ashore would be an incredible find...
I mentioned earlier there is a WW-2 Higgins type landing barge, sunk in shallow water off Bau we were shown- good snorkeling- just be careful as the Salt Water Crocs are all over I was told -at night and early morning.
I will be returning in the near future and hope to uncover more clues...
Regards
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 9, 2009 - 7:41pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Ted: We were in drydock there in February 1944. The photo showing the docks looks like the location when we were there. We were in the west (right hand ) dock. One half of our crew scraped, sanded and repainted the bottom of 242. The other half of the crew was on R & R in New Zealand. If my memory serves me right I believe the quonset hut that you can just see the corner - up from the dock where the two boats are tied was the chow hall. When we were not in drydock we tied up to bouys out in the lagoon.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Jan 10, 2009 - 8:38am
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
C.J.
If that is your boat in the right hand Drydock, then you have nailed the time frame, but from what I have here, I can't even tell if it is a Higgins or a ELCO. This is a xerox, the real photo is at PTHQ.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 10, 2009 - 5:15pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted: I can't tell if it is a Higgins or Elco either. Chances of it being our boat would be pretty slim. We were only in drydock at that time for 3 maybe 4 days but that right hand dock is the one we were in.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Jan 10, 2009 - 5:45pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Dick;
Can you possibly enlarge these? Looking at Earls picture I think, and this is a visual stretch here, but it appears the two boats at the Dock are Higgins PT's, the boat in the left drydock might be an ELCO 80' with a tent rigged on the bow, the boat in the middle drydock I don't know but it looks smaller with possibly a tent on the bow also, the boat in the left might be C.J.'s PT 242, the drydock is certainly larger. the two single boats at the piers: the boat with the LCVP underway behind it might be an ELCO, it also appears to be a crane or something on the pier, the other boat looks like another Higgins. I think you will loose the resolution of the pictures, but could you try and work your magic on this and the ones I have in the photobucket account.
Thanks a million,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 10, 2009 - 8:13pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Gentleman;
Check out the photos now on photo bucket, I did some zooming and stuff.
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 10, 2009 - 9:47pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted,
Great pictures, I wish I saw them pre-Oct. 2009, as it would have really broken down the search for me- any more please give a shout !
I will endeavor to take some shore shots in the small inlet there on Bau- there will not be much to see, but I can probably get the foundations of the quonset huts in my photos and their lat/long.
I would be interested in any photos edging the angle over alittle more to the West, as all these are missing Lambari Island and the pass next to it- darn.
I will go to Google now and grab the lat/long for the US Barge that is partialy sunk and show a lat/long- it is the normal type that they would put items on, or maybe use as a dock.
For being so old some of them are in pretty good condition. The point over on Munda has at least four around that area, plus a ramp that amtracks and such used to climb out of the water.
The lat/long is in degrees decimal minutes.
Regards
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 10, 2009 - 10:06pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
BAU inlet Barge (WW-2 US): 8 23. 930 S 157 19. 207 E
East Dock (very little remains): 8 23. 907 S 157 19. 268 E
And a great Google Earth shot of another US WW-2 Barge over on New Georgia- of which I got some great photos of:
8 18. 438 S 157 20.529 E
* remember degrees, decimal minutes
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 10, 2009 - 10:27pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Shane;
I am sure C.J., Earl, Bob, might help here. As per Hank Brantingham's map that he drew for me on a Garfield Sticky, the Island to the left looking into the Bau ISLAND Harbor is Lumbari Island, He even drew the little dock and shed sticking off Bau Island in the channel in between. I believe I have a map somewhere of this area, when I find it I will post it.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 6:46am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted: The whole month of February 1944, all of Ron 19 Higgins boats were at Rendova having maintenace work done. One half of all the boat crews were in New Zealand so we made no patrols that month and spent the time at Rendova waiting for them to get back. If the picture was taken during that time there should be several Higgins boats around.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 9:06am
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
[image]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/shaneo2/IMG_0737.jpg[/image]
Ted: this is the photo I took departing Munda in Oct. 2008. Looking left to right:
*Bau Island
*Pau Island
* little round Island is "un-named"...where the OBS mark was for 1893 & 1943/44 surveys.
* Lambari Island (kidney shaped) at SE part of pass
* the Reef pass/channel
* The Island where supposed refueling took place during PT 105 time there (West side of channel)
This is from the 1893 BA chart and the 1943 US Navy chart of Rendova Harbor (which I have the original first printing), it is at home in storage now.
I have both charts, and names remain the same to this day.
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 11:00am
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Gents,
This photo is standing under the big tree in Bau inlet, and the pic is directed over to the remains of the US Barge and the West side of the inlet.
You can see both the tree and Barge on Google Earth also.
[image]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/shaneo2/IMG_0547.jpg[/image]
Both the photos above are credited to myself, but as they are now on the internet oh well.... I hope some of these photos can refresh memories of our PT vets, so in 2009 I can get a better idea of where to look around.
I also was shown by local the small building that was used for the bakery (tree fell on top), etc.
I will be back home in March so can converse by phone then also.
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 11:17am
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Both pictures are on the photo bucket page now...
Regards
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 5:07pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Shane;
So your telling me Lumbari is the "bowling pin" shaped Island(third large island over)? Brantingham told me it was the large Island next to Bau, which I think you call Pau according to your discription?
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 6:27pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted,
That is correct, according to locals on the ground and both nautical charts in my keep. The original is a British Admiralty survey, which was used for the 1943 invasion I reckon. The US NAVY surveyed it again in 1943, both charts list it as Lambari, or sometimes spelt Lumbari.
I will ask more about Pau Island this year- and why there seems to be no development on it ??? Of course there may be, but unless you ask the locals they will not tell you- I learned that the hard way.
Regards
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 6:39pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
I will post the picture for ease of reference here:
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/IMG_0737.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 6:44pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
The beach on the North end (non pass side of Island),of Lambari Island was where the PT 164 was beached in the B&W photos with its bow blown off.
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 6:49pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
Shane;
So what i thought was Lumbari was actually Pau? I would have put the base on Pau then. No wonder they dumped Lumbari as soon as they could, from your photo, it does look geographically/strategically questionable. And know the geographics of the Island itself it must have really been a nightmare, they only mudpit island in the area, when rainy season hits. No wonder they moved!!! I always thought Pau was Lumbari, this explains alot.....even why Bob Kelly moved his RON 9 to Lever Harbor. I don't know why Hank Brantingham Identified Pau as Lumbari, I can also understand the invasion idea "Lets get a foot Hold" but, WOW!!! That little island?!!! I don't want to get on your bad side, because I toally respect you and the idea of you going there, but after reading what you wrote, is it possible he locals are Joking/pulling your leg on this one?
TAKE CARE,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 7:18pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted,
The USN Chart and BA chart both show that Island as Lambari, same with all the locals called it both in 1981 and 2008.
As mentioned the Islands go left to right:
That very small Island on the West of Pau is not Lambari, Lambari is that kidney shaped one at the begining (South end ) of the pass.
The locals are pretty proud of the island, and it once had a little museum. In Oct. 2008 there were only the old well, the bunker area, and a large (37mm?) gun and anchor on the beach.. The museum (hut) was destroyed either in the unrest, or by the tsunami.
Not to doubt the man who gave you the information, "but" somehow it is incorrect....either mistake of time/memory, or incorrect information he was given. The names and places were often confused during the war, as local non-English names often are in that part of the world.
I have a MACR that shows a plane wreck on the other side of the Island (Rendova,) being close to a said named village, where in fact it is closer to another....however, that being said one of the villages may not have been there in 1942, or maybe the missionary and scouts were from the other village etc. etc. etc.
The USN based its names in Rendova after the BA chart from the 1890's.
Posted By: Shaneo2 | Posted on: Jan 11, 2009 - 7:43pm
Total Posts: 147 | Joined: Apr 17, 2008 - 10:19pm
I found this picture of drydocks in Rendova Harbor and I remembered that someone had asked about drydocks a while back. Maybe you can see Earl jumping off of one of them.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Nathaniel%20Smith/drydocksRendova.jpg[/image]
natsmith
Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 8, 2010 - 5:11pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am
Nat;
I came across nice little maps of Tulagi and the Russells, if you e-mail me I will send it ASAP, I am having problems with your mail link in the above post.
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 1:52pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
hey nathaniel the one i dove off at treasury was floated much higher out of the water.was at least 30 fdt high i think,. earl
earl richmond
Posted By: EARL RICHMOND | Posted on: Feb 9, 2010 - 2:50pm
Total Posts: 319 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 1:50pm