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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
RANGE OF A PT BOAT??
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Hello everyone-
I had my PT boat diorama out yesterday at my local YMCA here in Jacksonville, Florida in honor of Veterans Day and also in partisipation of a fund raising event tennis tournament in honor of Marine Corp. Joshua Watkins who once was a trainer at the Y. Josh gave his life for his country in Iraq.
I was approached by one visitor who asked me a PT boat related question that I could not answer.
What with the fuel tanks topped off at 3000 gallons of gas, what was the absolute range of a PT boat??
Thanks for your help guys!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend RON-10 PT-169 " ZEBRA SNAFU "
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Nov 9, 2008 - 10:20am
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
Ya Know Frank, so much depended on many different factors in fuel consumption. A prop out of balance, marine growth on the Hull, or an engine that was running hot, could all spell trouble in fuel consumption on a thirsty PT BOAT.
Normally the boats Patrol would last roughly 12 hours. Running at say 23 knots, the Packards would consume about 66 gallons per hour, per engine for a total of 200 gallons per hour. Fuel consuption really added up if the boat was running near top sped using 166 gallons per engine, for a whopping total of 500 gallons per hour. So, in a 12 hout patrol a boat might use up to 2,000 gallons or more. In any event, the boats had a range of about 259 miles. Remember, the boats while patrolling were not hitting top speed, but lugging along looking for trouble. Several times, the boats would race out to Sea, opening up the engines. Of course, not being there, I might be far off the pace here, so please, any motor macs, or Crewmen please set me straight..............
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 9, 2008 - 1:36pm
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Hiya Frank A.-
WOW!! Now ya know exactly why I didn't have the foggiest clue as to the fuel consumption for a PT. The fella who posed the question was currently in the Navy and rather than give him a wrong answer to this question I told him I didn't know.
On my diorama I have a scratch built dry dock. I know that the PT had to have the underside scraped down and copperoid painted to cut down on the sea growth which I knew would hinder the speed of the PT.
Yep, like you said there are way too many factors that would come into play with the range of the boat. What really staggers me is the rate of 500 gallons per hour! That's amazing! Thanks for your reply!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Friend/Modeler RON-10 PT-169 " ZEBRA SNAFU "
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Nov 10, 2008 - 7:49am
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
Here's what it says in the characteristics:
CRUISING RADIUS (see table in back of book):
Full load maximum speed, 41 knots, 259 miles;
Full load maximum sustained speed, 35 knots, 358 miles;
Full load one engine, 11 knots, 1,050 miles.
Of course this si as built. Other factors are involved.
Here's the link for the chart:
[url]http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pt/doctrine/part6.htm#pg95[/url]
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Nov 10, 2008 - 8:43am
Total Posts: 600 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
Ron 9, when stationed in Treasury Island, Bougainville area, Solomon Islands group, made many trips to New Ireland, which was part of the eastern half of the New Guinea group.
As I recall, we would leave Treasury Island around 2:00 or 3:00 PM, travel at a moderate speed and arrive on station around 6:00 or 7:00 PM. I would say that it wasn't quite dusk. We would patrol into the wee hours of the morning until dawn and generally see little or no action.
(I was the radioman on board so I would spend most of my time in the chart room, especially if we were in General Quarters, so what would I know.)
There was more than one occasion when we were returning to base and as we approached the open harbor at Treasury, we would be "coasting" so as to conserve fuel. I don't think that we had much left.
If and when we saw action or if we used excessive speed, we would adjust and leave earlier.
I don't know how far it is from Treasury to New Ireland but I do know that our boat would be gasping for fuel.
One reason for my saying this is because I once read a message from some "character" in Vietnam that all PT boats were strictly "Brown Water" Navy.
I don't think he saw PT boats in Vietnam and I don't think he knows "Brown Water" from salt water.
If we could have had him on some trips on PT boats in the South Pacific, we would have liked him on board some of those long trips. I would have been all for dropping him overboard halfway to our destination and telling him to swim ashore. He could enjoy the "Brown Water" all the way home.
Maybe someone could tell me how far it is from Treasury to the closest point on New Ireland.
Posted By: Pat Rogers | Posted on: Nov 10, 2008 - 9:58am
Total Posts: 72 | Joined: Oct 10, 2006 - 3:21am
Hiya Pat-
Yeah, I think that guy was reffering to a PBR and NOT a PT. There's a mighty big difference there. For one a PBR ( nick-named PIBBER) is a squant 40 feet OAL.
Thank you for your reply, Pat! Somebody needs to set that guy back on track!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend RON-10 PT-169 " ZEBRA SNAFU "
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY!
Posted By: FRANK | Posted on: Nov 10, 2008 - 10:14am
Total Posts: 349 | Joined: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:09pm
We patroled area Fox out of Green Island It was between New Britian and New Ireland - from Rabaul south. It was 105 miles to the beginning of station and the patrol length was 40 miles beyond. We would leave base around 4:00 p.m. back to base about 9:00 a.m. This patrol would take a full load of fuel for our boat. Sometimes we would be coming in on the fumes.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Nov 10, 2008 - 1:27pm
Total Posts: 464 | Joined: Nov 5, 2006 - 5:02pm
Hey Pat,
I bet that brown water guy never heard of the trip made between Mios Woendi and Leyte Gulf that was made by what? about 50 PT Boats just before the invasion of Leyte! Wasn't that over 1000 miles? I know they had to convoy behind a tender but still that must have been quite the experience, and all in the deep blue water of the mighty Pacific Ocean!. Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Nov 10, 2008 - 1:28pm
Total Posts: 1473 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
[image]http://www.valinet.com/~natsmith/PT/New-Ireland.jpg[/image]
New Ireland is about 320 km long (200 miles). This would make the distance from Treasury to New Ireland about 235 miles (204 nautical miles) and the round trip about 470 miles (or 408 nautical miles). That is a lot of blue water.
natsmith
Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Nov 10, 2008 - 4:53pm
Total Posts: 211 | Joined: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:55am
The Sailor probably read that Thar new book on PT's that came out last month.
Wayne Traxel
Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Nov 12, 2008 - 10:43am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am
We once made a long patrol from Dreger to the south shore of New Britain. We were near the dividing line between South Pacific and Southwest Pacific fleets. It must have been about 600 statute miles round trip. We cheated a bit with a couple of rubber gas tanks on deck. In 1944 after the risk of aircraft was reduced, we sometimes made patrols that lasted around twenty four hours with no extra gas tanks. In the patrol zone the boats would idle along on two engines. On the return we could make a slow sweep of the coastline until we reached American held territory. As noted by others, the slow speed patrolling conserved gas.
I know where the dividing line was on the north coast of New Britain. Does anyone know the longitude of the dividing line on the south shore?
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Nov 12, 2008 - 11:29am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Wayne,
A perfect response to some of the "junk history" that's out there!
Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Nov 12, 2008 - 12:14pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am
Thank you, Drew. I appreciate that.
Wayne Traxel
Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Nov 12, 2008 - 1:20pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am
It is true that the PT's used lots of gas (WE were told ours(PT167, Ron 10) used 375 gallons per hour at top speed. I was QM so I had to record the fuel used as well as the hours, distance etc. We figured our range was 500 mautical miles at varying speede, we could nearly double that if we had to, poking along on one or two engines. For longer trips, like moving basas, we carried auxillary rubber balloons on deck.
Posted By: BobPic | Posted on: Nov 13, 2008 - 9:30am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I'm a civilian and no little about naval engineering so this is all second hand.
According to the Conway "History of the Ship" volume on the British Fairmile MTB type "D" there was a very BIG difference in range depending on how many engines you had and how you managed the engine settings. Fuel mixture, intake manifold pressure, exhaust manifold pressure, temperature of the coolant (which in turn was affected by temperature of the water) would all affect fuel consumption (coolant IIRC.) Again IIRC the Fairmile D's used similar engines to the US PTs,
Posted By: fredtheobviouspseudonym | Posted on: Nov 19, 2008 - 12:18am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered