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ť Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: Photo of 9 Returned Lend Lease ELCO's 1955-1956 Germany
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1001

9 Elcos and 1 Vosper returned by the Russians moored in Bremerhaven Germany 1956 according to records these are 731 series boats that were returned between 2-14 July 1955 The Russian Navy returned a number (23 to be exact)of lend-lease Elco PT's and some Vospers, turning them over to us at Flensburg or Lubeck Germany in 1956. All were in need of repair, and the US Navy Kiel Canal patrol using WWII German subchasers towed them to Bremerhaven where they were cleaned up and put in running condition. A crew from the USN Kiel station was assigned to each boat, some of the crews from the USN Rhine river patrol were assigned to take them down the coast and turned them over to the French Navy at Brest. This happened during the summer of 1956, Aug or Sept.

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Sep 23, 2008 - 7:00pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted,

I found your comment that according to records the 80' Elco's returned by Russia were from the 731 series to be most interesting. I had always been under the impression that the Russians were never able to assemble any of the PTs 732-760, which were provided in knocked down form, because in transshipment the Brits had extensively cannibalized the kits of parts for their own use. This info had been relayed to me by the late Burns Darsie, who was one of Elco's principal engineers at the time and in a position to know. I wonder if those boats in your photo were actually some of the 30 earlier 80' Elco's (plus the 731 boat) built for Russia lend-lease and delivered complete.

Incidentally, one of the fascinating by-products of the 731 series lend-lease is that Elco documented in excrutiating detail the construction / assembly of PT 731, producing a 4-volume assembly tech manual, each about 2 thick, including a few hundred 8X10 photos, that were meant to assist the Russians in assembly of the boats. PT Boats HQ has the complete 4-volume manual at HQ in Tennessee, which I consider to be the most definitive historical record of how to build an 80' Elco.

Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Oct 8, 2008 - 8:43am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am

Ed
All the earlier boats that went to Russia/USSR where first group PT 498-521(excluding PT 505 and 509) all of these were designated stricken and destroyed in 1954, or scuttled in the Barents Sea 1956. PT 517 was returned to USN in 1955, so she might be in that photo.
Second group PT 552-563(excluding PT 555, and 557-559), of these PT 552 was stricken in 1954, the rest were scuttled in the Barents Sea 1956.
This would leave the third group PT 731-760, of this group only six are listed as stricken, all the rest are listed as returned to the USN between 2 - 20 July 1955.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Oct 8, 2008 - 6:13pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted
Thanks for the data. Anecdotal info can always bear checking, not to mention the risk in relying on my own recounting of a tale passed along 30 years ago. I imagine there was some if not plenty of truth concerning the cannibalization of parts, just not to the extent that I suggested.
Ed

Posted By: Ed B | Posted on: Oct 11, 2008 - 7:08am
Total Posts: 91 | Joined: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:31am

I purchased the remains of Elco PT 740 in the Netherlands about ten years ago 1998 as it was being scrapped. It and several others had been refitted and were to be transferred to the Israeli Navy but the transfer was stopped. The boats were then sold or dispersed in Europe after being demilled.

Posted By: rcr | Posted on: Oct 12, 2008 - 9:05pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

I neglected to mention in the previous post that the time of the transfer to Israel was some time in the late 50s to early 60s. When I got there (too late) the boat was already being rendered although it had just recently been hauled. At that time 1998 all the machinery was already gone.

Posted By: rcr | Posted on: Oct 12, 2008 - 9:10pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

RCR;
What ever became of PT 740 or it's remains after you bought it? How did you come to buy this boat and from who? Do you know of any others?
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Oct 13, 2008 - 7:16am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

I bought the parts from Theo Van Mameren in Amsterdam. He had tried to sell when it was together with no luck and finally had to move it. The whole effort became too expensive for him so he scrapped it. That is just about the time I found out about it and bought the remnants which I still have. We have searched for the other boats but so far, no joy. That is just after I was misled on PT 314 which I left to be scrapped in New York but there is still PT 3.

Posted By: rcr | Posted on: Oct 13, 2008 - 7:23am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Roger;
Thanks for the info. Keep looking. Has anyone ever found out about those two 77' Elco's that were given to the Italians after the war? Also the Yugoslavs duplicated the 200 series boats they got from RON 15 and made quite a few in the 1950's.
I was once told of PT 40(not PT 48, I know where she is) was still in Florida(as of 1997), also PT 140 was down there too.....somewhere. Have you heard of these boats??
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Oct 13, 2008 - 7:34am
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Was station in Germany from 4-55 till 8-57 at USNAB Bremerhaven and the RRP. I never heard of the USN Kiel Station. However I did sail to Kiel summer of 1956 on a Weser River Patrol Boat to meet the Russians and receive the boats

R. Englund

Posted By: Sailor | Posted on: Jul 30, 2014 - 9:39am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Mr. Englund;
Welcome Aboard! Yes the correct name was Naval Advanced Base Bremerhaven 1955-56, CAPT C.W. Moses USN was the base CO.
Please refer to the Al Ross post on the previous page titled :Post-War return of boats by Soviets
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 30, 2014 - 12:47pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Fast reply from u Ted. Yes I know Capt. Moses as we came face to face at a Capt. Mast and also for a short time was assigned to his jeep for war games as it had a TCS radio in it. I am also in touch with his son on e-mail. I have 4 pictures of that day in Kiel with him in them along with Russian officers and some of the boats. I am also in one of them along with 4 other white hats but u really can not make me out to well. One of the nine brought back by the German LSU was repaired and I and one other RM was assigned to it for its shake down with Capt. Moses and some other brass on board. Never did find out what happen to it. maybe it went to Brest. That picture of the nine tied up at Columbus Quay was taken by a Air Force guy and posted on his web page of Bremerhaven and a couple of years ago I found this forum and told someone how to get the picture and they did. Do we have 2 post of the 9 boats now????....Later

Robert

Having a hard time finding Ross post

R. Englund

Posted By: Sailor | Posted on: Jul 30, 2014 - 6:20pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Robert;
Al's post is the last post on the next page in the general section. Yes, it was from an Air force guy, I think it was an old tripod website. To bad more photos don't exist.
Tale care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Jul 30, 2014 - 7:51pm
Total Posts: 3059 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Here is the direct link to Al's post which Ted is referring to.

[url]http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=3591&pg=2&sc=20&x=0[/url]

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jul 31, 2014 - 9:38am
Total Posts: 1417 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm

Thanks, I was able to locate them when I figured out how to serf thru this forum

R. Englund

Posted By: Sailor | Posted on: Jul 31, 2014 - 10:05am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered