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Topic: Weighted Pouch |
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QM
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Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 - 11:26am
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The secret device was the IFF. It was a radio identification device.
Regarding the explosive charges for destruction of the boat, I need to review information in At Close Quarters of boats being destroyed and some other information to which I have access. The book may say that the boats were equipped with a "self destruct charge" but I do not remember reading of this method ever being used to destroy a boat. It may take several days. |
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TED WALTHER |
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 Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 - 8:47pm
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FOR SALE ON EBAY RIGHT NOW!!!
US Navy WW2 WWII Weighted Over The Side Code Book Case
Item number: 350073232516
IS THIS WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT?
TAKE CARE,
TED
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Frank J Andruss Sr
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Posted on: Jun 27, 2008 - 11:59pm
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Thanks Ted
Way to find an item that is dead on to the Conversation. I might even throw a bid in myself.........
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Drew Cook
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Posted on: Jun 29, 2008 - 11:37am
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In reference to Frank's "weighted pouch" question and Ted's mention of the Ebay listing of the "U.S. Navy WW2 Weighted Over The Side Code Book Case," here's directly from the U.S. Navy "Motor Torpedo Boats Tactical Orders and Doctrine" publication, dated July 1942:
Part 5. Engineering & Communications Doctrine
Chapter 2. Communications
5212. Confidential Publications: C.P.carried on board MTBs should be carried in a locked W.T. case which will readily sink when thrown overboard, in case the boat is captured or destroyed, these cases should be turned in to the commanding officer upon return to base.
Guess those "W.T." (water tight) cases, probably the same or similar ones to the Ebay offering, WERE the weighted pouches, eh?
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QM
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Posted on: Jun 29, 2008 - 6:25pm
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Regarding demolition charges on board:
In "At Close Quarters" I searched Appendix A to find boats which were destroyed to prevent capture. I found twenty-one boats listed. In the text of the book I then looked for information as to how each boat was destroyed. The results are-
Philippines--the early days: PT 31 set afire. PT 35 burned. PT 41 destroyed.
The Solomons: PT 43 gunfire. PT's 118 153 158 172 destroyed.
New Guinea: PT's 68 135 136 145 gunfire. PT 147 landmine [where did that come from?] PT's 322 339 destroyed. PT 193 gasoline [gasoline being put in the bilges prematurely ignited while the skipper was still below].
Morotai: PT's 368 371 destroyed.
Return to the Philippines: PT 73 set on fire. PT 321 demolition charge. PT 338 no method given.
Nine boats were destroyed by fire or gunfire. No method of destruction was give for ten boats. This information leads to no conclusion regarding a built in demolition charge, except that none was used on at least ten of the boats destroyed. The demolition charge used on PT 321 is interesting. I have no source to further investigate how the ten boats were destroyed. My guess is that the nine boats which were destroyed by fire or gunfire had no demolition charge. It would have been an easier procedure.
If we had a demolition charge on board, I am happy that I was not aware of it. I would have been unable to sleep. |
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QM
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Posted on: Jul 19, 2008 - 3:19am
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Regarding demolition charges and weighted bags: I was unable to find information about the method of destruction of the boats in New Guinea which were reported in At Close Quarters only as " destroyed". Neither could I find information of the use of weighted bags for classified materials. It looks like all of he boats that were destroyed were in grounded on reefs, so a weighted bag would not have been useful if they had one. I was able to find more detailed information on three boats that were destroyed by fire or gunfire. following is the report on PT 145.
I burned all classified matter separately before abandoning the boat. The ABK unit was destroyed by the Thermide Destruction Charge provided for that unit. The radar scope unit and the receiver-transmitter were completely destroyed with an ax, rendered useless and making salvage impossible. I started a fire with papers and other material in my stateroom. Next I started a fire in the charthouse with other printed matter there, .......Three hundred rounds of 20mm and three thousand rounds of 50 caliber ammunition were expended. ............At 0420 there was a strong explosion and PT 145 was completely engulfed in flame. |
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Frank J Andruss Sr
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Posted on: Jul 19, 2008 - 5:31am
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I guess it would only be logical that because the boats operated so close to shore that weighted bags for secret papers would really do no good. You are correct in that most of the boats that went aground, were destroyed by gun-fire from other boats, or in the last post by QM, fires were started below. This of course was only possible if they had time, and were not under heavy fire from other boats or shore batteries. The main objective was to get the hell out of there, saving what Crew you could. I am sure the very thought of being taken prisoner by the Japs was enough to make the Crew high-tail it away from a sticken boat by any means.
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QM
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Posted on: Jul 19, 2008 - 2:34pm
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I have seen no report that a boat was abandoned without first being destroyed. A report shows that PT 68 was receiving fire from shore batteries and snipers. PT 147 was receiving sniper fire. Both boats were successfully destroyed before their accompanying boat departed. PT 193 thought that they were under threat of machine guns from a truck that had arrived on the scene. The boat was successfully destroyed.
While on routine patrols the boats may have retired from shore batteries, some boats also went on in if they had an inviting target. Boats with a 40 mm were much more aggressive in taking on and silencing shore batteries while at the same time their smaller guns were used on barges. |
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